Sony to spin off camera businesses | Kyodo News (http://kyodonews.net/news/2016/10/27/85586)

Hoping this means we'll have better decisions, like 4K 60p across the XDCAM lineup rather than limited to the FS7 and up (Which IMHO, was an incredibly stupid business decision, allowing Panasonic to corner that part of the marketplace.)

Perhaps the first of April doesn't have the same meaning in Japan as it does here!

I doubt it's a spoof, as the article was written today. ( Had it been written on April 1st then you might be onto something, not sure why they'd mock that tho).

April 1 is probably the beginning of their fiscal year.

The story is on the Kyodo News website. You can find it with a quick search.

Sony to spin off camera businesses | Kyodo News (http://kyodonews.net/news/2016/10/27/85586)

Hoping this means we'll have better decisions, like 4K 60p across the XDCAM lineup rather than limited to the FS7 and up (Which IMHO, was an incredibly stupid business decision, allowing Panasonic to corner that part of the marketplace.)

An interesting yet, to me, not surprising turn of events. I'm sorely tempted to agree with Jack regarding 'incredibly stupid' but in as much as Sony corporation is a hugely successful multinational corporation I hesitate to label them so. It is perhaps probable that recent moves, including the decision to not enter the consumer/prosumer 60p 4K market, are strategic in nature with a long term bigger picture in mind, whatever that might be. It might well be that returning to a profit situation, which I understand they have done, has been driving the bus and cost cutting, including and especially R&D, might well be front and centre of top management's thinking.

I can quickly think of two reason why they made this move, the first being to enable the new entity to be quicker to respond to volatile market conditions and the second to set the scene to sell the new entity as a separate going concern. Perhaps both.

Whatever, as a long time Sony camera customer, perhaps even something of a fanboy, I view this announcement with mixed emotions - the end of an era and the beginning of another.

My latest purchase was a Lumix GX85. When it comes to functionality and price Sony is not competitive, nor do they intend being so, clearly. My next camera purchase might well be the announced Panasonic GH5 which is said to bring 60p 4K to the table.

One thing we can count on: Sony Corporation will do whatever it takes to be profitable and a long term survivor. If the camera division, soon to be Sony Imaging Products & Solutions Inc., is forecast to not meet profit requirements long term then I expect Sony Corporation will sell it off, drop it like a hot potato.

We shall see.

Cameras are still going to be made by Sony, and the head of the department is going to be the head of the new "firm". Sounds like some creative re-arrangement for accounting purposes. They may be trying to break out one area of products from those that are not doing so well (I heard a while back they were losing money on their flat screen TVs, for instance) To me, this does not translate into any new direction for their camera products as far as design and production goes. Same ole, same ole.


Mark

P.S. I like ALL camera companies, but find JVC to be a bit of an oddball (not in a bad way).

Does anybody know just how profitable Sony's camera divisions are?

Handycam? I have no clue.

Alpha? I have to believe that is doing very well. I know he A6000 series and the A7 series have been great performers over the past couple of years. I have been told and have read that they have exceeded even Sony's sales expectations. Also based on how fast they are refreshing each model and how much tech improvements are happening, they seem to be really gaining great industry reputation because it it.

XDCAM? Dont really know about traditional 2/3 inch ENG cameras today but I have been told the FS7 sales were very strong and the new FS7 Mark II is about to be released. I strongly suspect the FS5 is doing well. I also have to think that Sony's smaller ENG event cameras like the Z150 and X70 are selling OK too. They seem to be everywhere.

Anybody have any inside info?

I cant imagine that there is any other camera company right now that is doing better than Sony. No?

You may well be correct, Cliff, about the 'right now' and I would suggest because of astute management the recent dip in profitability has been corrected. But outfits such as the Sony Corporation spend significant time, money on seeking to understand, predict, what will happen 'way down the road' and that information is critical in shaping their strategic decision making.

The questions the guys at the top wrestle with, are paid the big bucks to solve, are what does the future look like and what do we need to do differently to ensure profitability in the future.

I think there is an interesting thing happening in the low cost consumer vs expensive pro world. Sony is pushing down pro features into low cost cameras that used to exist only in high-end models.

SLOG-2/3, detailed zebra options, timecode, peaking, high speed frame rates, clean 4:2:2 HDMI....and the most incredible image sensors that Sony has ever made. All on "consumer" Alphas with 14 stops of dynamic range?

Look at the A7s-II. That image sensor has an incredible signal to noise ratio and is a true low light monster. You can get shots with and A7s-II that you CANT get with an FS5, FS7, F5, F55 or even an F65. Phillip Bloom shoots the "Wonder List" for CNN and uses his FS7 and A7s-II and they are cut together completely seamlessly.You cant tell the difference, except when it's a guy on a pattle board at night with moon light only. When you say "Oh may God, that's an amazing shot in complete darkness"...it's not the expensive XDCAM you are watching!

The A6300 & 6500 with that amazing 6k readout to 4k scaling. I'm STILL shocked at the enormous amount of fine image detail it resolves. And the A6300 still sees further into the shadows and it's far,...and I mean FAR CLEANER than an XDCAM FS5 that costs 500+% more.

It just seems that Sony's Alpha division has become a technological tornado blazing it's way through the industry landscape right now. Meanwhile XDCAM FS5's and FS7's are still using 5 year old FS700 image sensors. Look at the difference that 5 years of image sensor technology will make.

SONY FS5 vs. A6300 - "IMAGE SENSOR" Test. - YouTube

I dont know. I think that Sony will need to accelerate the lifecyle of future XDCAM products and refresh them on a faster schedule. They are just letting allot of their best innovations go to the Alpha side of their business.

Other weird marketing things like allowing cheap Alphas and cheaper RX's to have SLOG and NOT allowing SLOG on more expensive models like the XDCAM X70 and Z150 is just bizarre. It's a shame that a $1000 RX100 will have more dynamic range than a $3500 Z150 even though they share the same sensor.

I dunno. Somebody needs to get the camera marketing decisions to make more sense in the future. The Alpha management team is very AGRESSIVE. The XDCAM management team is the exact opposite.

Sony Alpha and XDCAM = Bulls and Bears.

I dont get it.

The A6300 & 6500 with that amazing 6k readout to 4k scaling. I'm STILL shocked at the enormous amount of fine image detail it resolves.

...Except in 4K 30p where it only does a ~4.6K readout equivalent to a MFT 2x crop factor. If you primarily shoot in 30p, get a speedbooster for sure.

We will have to wait and see how it affects the development of new cameras.
I'm maybe a bit sceptical as this might just be decision to appeace shareholders. Or to disconnect failing divisions from the rest, so losses won't drag down the total result. Or to prepare the sale of certain divisions. Don't forget the influence of 'bookkeeping' on the level of such corporations.

Any more news on FS7 II rumors? :-p

This sounds like the front edge of a strategic divestiture. Smart phones have clobbered the point and shoot consumer market, and probably the low end of video cameras as well. If Sony sees itself as a consumer company, why does it need the professional production gear and high end of the amateur market? There isn't a lot of commonality with high volume consumer products (think PlayStation, gaming, content). The same is true for medical equipment that will also be placed in the new company.

The new smaller company should be easier to manage in a market with companies like Red and Blackmagic driving prices down for very sophisticated technology. Canon was a lenses and still camera company until DSLRs developed video capabilities and the Cinema line was launched. How do you make a profit in a market full of competitors while funding expensive R&D?

I think consolidation is inevitable. Larger firms can spread the R&D costs over more prosumer/professional product volume. Look for a combination with an existing standalone camera and optics company like Nikon (which just happens to use Sony sensors). Perhaps Blackmagic or a Chinese firm would be interested in buying the new entity to get hold of the technology. I wonder how the camera business fits into the strategic plan at Panasonic and JVC?

All speculation on my part...

Iv'e been using XDCAM cameras for ever however, when Sony brought out the RX10, a6000, A7s and so on....I sold all my high end cameras and moved over to the new Sony A7s style cameras, as I saw what they were delivering for the price/features v my 60k XDCAM rigs.

HI Simon,

That is a major move for your and same time as me. I have sold my FS7 and am moving over to small cameras. Will I still use XDCAM, yes, when the client demands it and I will rent a FS7 or F55. But I agree with you at the great video quality of the small big sensor camera.

I just checked out your link to your business. Do you have chops? I have been playing since I was a kid.

I believe Sony Corp has been in financial trouble for a long time. Maybe the beginning of the breakup of a large corporation?

Hi Paul, yep it was time to move on from the big rigs so, sold it all off and run around with small bag with Sony cameras, a7s line and a new 6500 when this comes out. This all fits into a backpack etc... and loving it.

If I ever need a large shoulder rig I'll hire these days however most of my work I just turn up and use the clients equipment and it's been this way for a long time, also I can't keep up with the amount of new cameras that everyone expects you to have (purchased) it's becoming an obsession with people that you need the latest and greatest gear to produce content. The Sony Alpha series cameras and E mount lenses are fantastic and really the image compared to my PMW500 is better I feel, now I'm free to move about and not stand out when shooting in and around public places which was always an issue with large gear.

Yep, been drumming since I was a kid over 35 years now, took a break for 7 yrs and now back into it before I'm to old (hang on... I'm already old!. I played pro since I was 13 yrs and decided along the journey to diversify (get a real job) into video production. I started out in video with a small handy cam then all the way to 100k camera kits and now I'm back with a small handy DSLR cam..... I THINK IT'S FUNNY.
I put a link up on my twitter that was shot recently on an iPhone at a couple of gigs, it's rough but you get the Idea.

Cheers,
Simon

In the news 'Sony reports sales slump in Q2 FY2016'. Trouble in the camp, clearly. For instance the overheating issue with the a6300 (perhaps also the a6500) suggests a lack of R&D among other things and quite unlike the Sony of yesteryear. And now with 4k popping up in all kind of devices not to mention 4k 60p on the horizon from Panasonic with no indication from Sony that they are going there at that price point - makes one wonder.

The moving pictures image capture business is surely in for (more) big changes, other than the very high end perhaps.

I think since the 5D was released the industry changed, Broadcast NO... Prosumer defiantly. Interesting times ahead.

Yeah, the amount of cameras out each week is mind boggling, I guess they figure there is a market as consumers keep buying regardless of quality. The overheating in the a6000 camp is bad and I'm about to grab a a6500.

Simon,

Funny how we are 1/2 way around the globe from each other and have had similar gear for a lot of years. The 500 was a great camera and then clients wanted 180-240 fps. Oh well I hopped on the train and went F55 then add other cameras, and now I am in the same boat. Sold my FS7 the last camera. Also sold my Canon 5D MKIII and IDX to go Olympus OM-D1. Best still camera I have ever used for my shooting. Now with their MK 2 coming I am going to give that a go for video. Their glass is amazing and 5 axis on the sensor now with new glass with built in IS it is up to 6.5 stops. You do not need any other stabilizers. And audio can be solved.

Me too, been drumming since 1970 and have been through a lot of great kits. Have a sound proof recording studios right next to me. Did pro gigs for a few years, but I prefer waking up at 5am not going to bed at 5am, so I pay for the love of it. And with buddies at times. And my real passion as you know is sailing which is 98% of my life.

Look forward to your thoughts on going DSLR and how you set up audio.

Have fun

I decided to stay with Sony equipment as I moved over to the small a7s style cameras, I did however a few years ago shoot on a 5D and C300 which I never felt comfortable with and sold those.

I really dig the Sony Alpha series and the features they have, this just works and feels comfortable for me with the way I shoot, Image quality and size. I don’t shoot 4k and don’t shoot Log. I really like Sonys colours and I’m familiar with their HG Gammas and picture profiles.

Setting myself up again with new gear was quite expensive yet again so I chose wisely and what I really like is the Sony gear is comparable across their range of DSLR type cameras.

Audio, I use the Sony Sony XLR-K1M Adapter which is great however, way to expensive…. what I should have done was use a Zoom h6 and then sync in post later.

Sony E mount glass is great for me, I get the same range as my 2/3’’ glass at a 10th of the price in a small size. Image stabilising in either lens or body works well. Also everything fits in a small back pack. The other thing was Tripods & batteries from my Broadcast equipment…. The weight, cost and size of both use to cause me grief wherever I traveled. Also I wanted to set myself up with my new rig so If something broke or got lost I could almost go to any camera shop and replace these items, with Broadcast equipment this was not possible.

I don’t feel I’ve lost any quality by going a7s style cameras, I did extensive tests for weeks before I made the switch before selling off my Broadcast gear. I saw a change In my work and also the industry and thought, it’s time.

Here is a link to something I shot and edited some time ago handheld on my Sony a7s ,edited in Premier Pro. Shot all natural light etc.

Cheers,
Simon


https://youtu.be/htFnQJIunLg

Simon, I understand your reason for staying with Sony. Having used all the Hyper Gammas and know what works were I will miss it. I also had a C300 and UGH, did not like it at all. Also did not like Canon lens for video at all. I know some people love it and that is why there are lots of choices.

I have tried the Alfa cameras with lens and really liked the stills, but did not have time to shoot video.

The Zoom H6 sounds like a decent path with nice wireless or hand held/boom depending on the jobs.

So you are not having any overheating issues with the A7s? Not surprised the quality is better then our older 500's. In their time they were fantastic cameras but technology has flown by.

Thanks for sharing the video, agree the quality is just fine. And natural light is also most of my fun shoots. Big sets with lights and large crews are ok gig, but I prefer small crews and natural light. Did you use the Sony XLR-K1M Adapter for audio? +Wireless?

Will let you know what I think about the Olympus OM-D-EM1 MK2 when it hits the market. From what I have been told it will be in the next month. I have the OM-D-EM1 but have only used it for stills and it has paid for itself 50 times over. It is 2x crop at micro 4/3, but with video you will never know. Yes, I am sure people will say different but there are always the skeptics. As for stills yes, it will be noticed if you are printing over 6'.

I forgot to mention that our paths are very similar.

No over heating at all with the a7S, it gets very hot & humid here in Australia and I'm always shooting in these conditions.

I think the big crew/cameras etc... are gone for me and my style anyway are solo projects where I'm after: doco, real life, raw and as it is... a bit like News and the Sony cams give me this look and feel in particular with hand held shooting. I really like how a shoulder camera gives movement and with the Sony Alpha range and the glass I use I can get this. Also I'm not after that over produced look, which I don't do anyway.

The Sony XLR-K1M Adapter unit has two XLR inputs and also a top mic, so either two lapels or one lapel and the top mic. This unit attaches to the shoe on the camera and audio is captured into the camera. It's a good unit, well it's the only thing to use really however it's very fragile and can break in an instant if not careful.

I use Sennheiser EW 112-P G3 Wireless Lapel / Lavalier System with my camera. This all mounts onto a cage. I'll set this up later and take a pic.

The Zoom H6 would be perfect with my setup, 4 x inputs, limiters etc... if the price comes down I might grab one.

I would be interested in how the Olympus goes.

Thanks Simon,

Sounds like you have the right setup for your shooting. I agree one man gigs and grabbing it raw and not camera raw is my preferred way.

Thanks for the info on the audio setup. I doubt the Sony XLR-K1M Adapter would work on the Olympus. But will see how the Zoom looks.

Olympus sent out a preorder today so it is close.

Be great to see pics of your setup when you get the chance.

Keep having fun and when I get to OZ you will get a call.

Here is my rig, Sony A7S with: Movcam cage, Sennheiser G3 x 2, Sony XLR-K1M audio adaptor and also the Sony E PZ 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 OSS Lens. I have other lenses which I use, not included in these photos. I forgot to mention that I only shoot in APS-C (Super 35mm) on my cameras, I'm not interested in full frame for two reasons, Rolling shutter and my lenes are all APS-C (Super 35mm) ones. I purposely decided to go the APS-C (Super 35mm) way for the look I'm after.

Cheers, Simon.

Oh I should mention, ND filters.... here is a link on how I set up my rig using a different lens however, I kept the same ND filters and purchased step down rings and applied this on all my lenses, the system works fantastic for me. I should really do another video as I get asked all the time how to do this for other lenses.
https://youtu.be/TiocVKQm-PM

Simon, That is really helpful information, and what a cool way to use ND filters. It is so natural using ND in the FS7 and all the XDCAM's that your systems make the switch fast and easy. I will give that a go.

The Movcam rig looks small and well built. I have some of their gear from older cameras and will check on cost. As for wireless I sold my great Lectrosonic kit when I cut gear cost, so now looking for a lower price wireless kit. But coming from a $5K always amazing sounding kit I will be picky.

Placed my preorder yesterday for the Olympus and should be up and running in the next month. Once I am I will post the setup. And do a few blogs to show what is has been like moving over to still/video camera for video.

Keep up the great work and having fun

I had the xume adapters and stopped using them because I accidentally bumped it and my expensive nd filter came off and fell onto the ground which damaged it, this happened twice, one time I was lucky, the other time not. if I need to use a nd filter now I just screw it on, it's not as convenient but rather that then having the risk of damaging another filter.

Look forward to the Blog mate. Bummer about your experience Noa.

Here's more about Sony stripping itself down:
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/18/8063269/sony-electronics-future-selling-off-pc-smartphone-tv

I hope the camera division will continue to innovate, I've always loved the 'feel" and usability of Sony's products.

I have to wonder why Sony is doing this. Is Sony's camera division NOT profitable? I have to believe that XDCAM and Alpha brands are very strong sellers. I see them EVERYwhere!

I know the company as a whole is struggling but their camera division has got to be doing well.....no?

My understanding is that the camera division did generate a profit their last financial year but where Sony are going is determined very much by what the business case (projected profitability) looks like down the road the year after next and further into the future. Perhaps that picture is not so rosy when it comes to the camera division. For the sensor division, and other divisions, my understanding is that things look much brighter.

You'd think there would be an opening for a company that doesn't have its stuff blow up.... and Sony does still innovate, at least in the camera division.

If the earthquake wasn't bad enough, the seismic shift in how people use their electronics.... and as the article pointed out, the rise of the cell phone to dominate them all, has changed the economics of many companies. Sony is no exception.

Hopefully there will still be a market for high end imaging and audio products, big enough to support an innovator rather than a name resting on laurels...

I can see Sony dumping its "Handycam" and "NXCAM" brands and all of their low end point and shoots. However, I have to believe their RX line and their Alpha, XDCAM and CineAlta brands have a good future.

The only think that I think could screw Sony's own camera line is Sony Silicon Semiconductor group. If Sony increases its sale of their technology to competitors, that is going to kill Alpha and XDCAM. If Sony sells its EXMOR chips to Panny for their GH5 and sells their 6k readout and scaling engine to competitors, that just cuts Alpha and XDCAM off at the knees.

There is nothing worse for a Sony pro marketing or sales manager to look across the NAB convention floor and see that his competition is buying key Sony technology in their cameras to sell against him.

Canabolism is a tough thing.

CT

I don't know how the different divisions work. Looking at the Sony website, all the audio, video stuff is still there, TV's too. It seems the darn movie business continues to drag them down. I just read they lost a boatload last quarter in the movie business, but they sold 57 million PS4 in the last 3 years which has been making a lot of money. Like to see them get out of the movie business.

But here's an interesting article I read about the Japanese electronics industry in general. At least, it's one writer's perspective for what it's worth. Maybe Sony feels it can't break the management style unless it separates the companies????
Inside the Demise of Japan Inc. | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/03/21/inside-demise-japan-inc.html)