Hello everyone. I've been recording a large symphony for the last couple of years. Early on I choose the ORTF method for recording. 2 Rode NT1's into a Zoom F8n for the last performance. I never would have believed that the recordings are as good as they are. Mics are about 5 feet behind and 4 feet above the conductor.
I finally got permission to release a recording from a live performance. It is Dvorak's From the New World, M II, Largo. Allan R. Scott conducting the Helena Symphony Orchestra . Video and photography are from my archives. Sadly most have watched the video on cell phones. If you really want to listen might I humbly suggest headphones/speakers and a bigger screen!
Hope you enjoy.
j

vimeo.com/410136994/b5a7463040

Its a private video so you'll have to copy and paste the link. Sorry.

That's quite nice to listen to, but it's also the reason why I never like the ORTF technique, as it sounds really nice on my studio monitors, but I first listened on my in ears on my laptop and on these, the classic hole in the middle is quite obvious. You can't detect it on speakers, and it gives that slightly exaggerated width.

The sound is quite full and for once, the audience managed to keep quiet!

A nice recording!

Thank you Paul, a very nice review. I use headphones for recording of course but I mix and master only on my speakers. Your point about the hole in the middle is right on. On occasion we will have a soloist that I record with separate mic and channel. I generally put them near the middle of the stereo field. Gives me a really nice sound. j

I've stuck to X/Y with 90 degrees for this reason. It's a nice recording though - the definition is there, and lots of detail.

Hi John,

I've copypasted that exact link and Vimeo tells me there is nothing there. Has anything changed?

Andrew

vimeo.com/410136994/b5a7463040

Hi Andrew. Nothing has changed as far as I can tell. I just re-copied the link info direct from Vimeo. Hope that works. j

No dice. Might be geographical restrictions also applying. (I'm in Australia.)

Andrew

Bummer. I'm concerned others might be having the same issue.

Maybe this will work.

DVORAK Symphony No. 9, Movement II - Largo on Vimeo

https:// then vimeo.com/410136994/b5a7463040

I copied and pasted this to the https:// and it worked so it needs this at the front.

I guess I'm just going to have to miss out, and I've tested it on more than one browser.

Andrew

Just spotted that Donald updated his post re using an https connection. Neither http: or https: mode in the URL makes any difference for me, and non-secure HTTP is automatically redirected to a secure connection by Vimeo.

Andrew

Andrew, at the top of web page you will see the web address starting with https:// now copy vimeo.com/410136994/b5a7463040 high lite everything after https:// then paste & go

this worked for me.

Indeed that's what I did, to no success. Both http and https versions of the address do not work for me.

Andrew

This link works for me, but it won't work when just pasted into a forum post. Some of the links above seem to have invisible charcters in them, preventing them from working. Try copying/pasting this into your browser address bar

https://vimeo.com/410136994/b5a7463040

And it's a nope from me. Even if I type it in manually to avoid weird character set (unicode fun) issues.

Oh well.

Andrew

John, you might want to look at this support page:

https://vimeo.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115015677227-Troubleshoot-player-error-messages

"Sorry, Because of its privacy settings, this video cannot be played here

If you’re seeing this error in the player, the video you are watching has domain-level privacy enabled. The video’s owner can adjust the domains where a video can appear within “Where can this video be embedded?” section of the embed settings page."

313 people have watched this. So I don't know what's going on.

Thanks everyone. Boyd, I'll have to dig into it. I set the video up so that the viewer had to have the specific link. You can't search and find it you have to have the link. That being said, if you have the link, it should work. Its odd that Andrew is not be able to use the link. Is there some weird region roadblock set-up by specific countries. Maybe someone does not think I have the rights to show the vid? j

ORTF is my favorite technique - you get very precise instrument locations and a natural sound, as compared with multi-mic recordings or simple omni spreads. I do not think the middle is lacking much - the oboe solo is right in the middle of my head when I listen on headphones. The recording is a little rough sounding though; is this Vimeo compression?

Weird, today this Vimeo page works for me and I can watch the video.

https://vimeo.com/410136994/b5a7463040

I think I'll chalk up the problems as being a temporary glitchy issue with Vimeo.

Andrew

When I recorded the Fremantle Symphony Orchestra a few years back, I was experimenting with what mics I had during rehearsals until I was wisely counselled on this forum to respect my orchestra with decent gear.

I built a Decca tree arrangement. I had a Rode NT2A for an omnidirectional centre mic and two Sony C74 shotguns for my wing mics. The Sony mics have rear lobes in their pickup pattern so each became an improvised figure8 with the rear lobe of each mic coinciding with the centreline of the other.

Each was aimed for best sound into the headset and the included angle between the two ended up being about 120 degrees. The mix was three channels into two via a Yamaha MG166c and the recorder was a Zoom H4n.

By the night of the recording I respected the orchestra as best I could afford by buying two more NT2A mikes and calling in a recordist who knew what he was doing. The three mikes were L in figure 8, Centre in omni and R in figure 8.

These clips are by no means in the league of what you are doing but may provide interest in the comparison between the two setups.

Rehearsal
FRA DIAVOLO EXTRACTS REHEARSAL.mp4 - YouTube

Final recording.
FRA DIAVOLO ARRANGEMENTS FOR IBTTS.mp4 - YouTube

NOTE: The rehearsal clip may not play cleanly. This is a tech issue I can not do anything about. Youtube seems to have shunted old clips with low viewing numbers to an archive. They do not turn up in normal search and has trouble finding them in channel manager. The clip skips when I try to play it here now. Hopefully it may play better for other viewers now that it has been woken up. I hope they fix this issue. People are going to search their own archives and clutter youtube with multiple copies of their clips if this keeps on happening.

Plays fine for me here.

I would try again using a private browser...or if you have access to VPN, you can 'choose' the country of IP origin (I believe).

Sounds great John...with my Sony headphones. Clean and warm sound, perhaps just a tad lacking in the high frequencies. Then again, my ears aren't as young as my brain would lead me to believe.

Hi Bob, good to hear from you again. It was a long time ago but we met at NAB in the late 1990's. We were seated next to each other at a Sony Vegas party. I won a dvd mastering program, we both agreed that was a score!

Anyway, one of the biggest improvements in my recordings came when I stepped up to the Zoom F8n from the H6. The pre-amps really are very good.
I researched the Decca tree when I first started down this road. It just seemed too damn complicated. ORTF seemed the most natural to me. Dead simple to setup and returns great results. I've strayed from the setup because of the orchestra having to spread out so much from the virus.

Thanks Oren.

j