I'm sorry. . .not to sound stupid: a macro is a tiny program or plugin that can be integrated into the software? I'm unfamiliar with the term.

1 - Does anyone have any info on when the next version of Vegas Video might come our way?

2 - What features are they working on?

3 - Which hardware product(s) might the next version possibly be bundled with?

I'm doing research on getting video technology for my company over the next 3-6 months and this product looks very promising. FYI we've pretty much ruled out Premiere, sorry, we have Photoshop and while it's a very powerful program, we use only about 10% of its potential thanks to Adobe's continued insistence on making PSP as cryptic and difficult to use as possible and we fear that Premiere might be the same way (I certainly don't mean to start a debate here, just stating what has been our experience for the past 4 versions of PSP, we think that power does NOT have to equate ridiculous learning curve in software.) Anyway, no one here has the time resources or the patience to deal with that...

Thanks a bunch for your help.

Miles

BUT..... yes photoshop is cryptic as anything, but has become a lot easier to use.

Premiere on the other hand is so intuitive it is amazing. I have used many forms of avid, including the latest dv express 3.5, final cut pro up to latest version as well as vegas.

To be honest the easier, and most intuitive was Premiere.

I am not trying to change your decision, but the learning curve in Premiere is nothing like photoshop at all.

I want to ask you, if you have used Final Cut Pro, which many people consider the absolute standard, well Premiere was designed by the same person, and for me, i just fell into it with no problems and after about 4 weeks had exploited every single feature it had to offer.

kermie

ps. also one nice thing about premiere is the massive amount of supported hardware and basic support, version updates and plugins available.

I've long abandoned Premier for VV3 and I love it. I'll be at the VAST workshop in Denver on Sept 17th. Hope to find out more about VV4 at that time.

Yes, if you are going to use vegas, download and read the large PDF manual. It's about 350 pages of wonderful information including the references I mentioned earlier.

As for the Macro, it is basically a series of keypresses that can be activated by just pressing a couple of keys. There are many macro programs available on the internet. You start the macro program "recording", do a key sequence, and then define a specific keypress to activate that key sequence. Then that key sequence can be used repeatedly very quickly.

An alternative to a macro program is a device such as the Contour ShuttlePro. It will let you define macros for the buttons on the hardware device. I've heard it is a great device to use with VV but have not yet tried it myself.

Personally, I found Premiere was NO WHERE NEAR as intuitive as Vegas Video. Trying to figure out how to do a simple 3 camera edit was next to impossible with Premiere and possible without even looking at the manual in VV. In my opinion, VV wins hands down.

As for the new version of VV - no official announcement has been made concerning either the release date or features to be added/improved. A listing in a financial report indicated early 2003 as a possible release date. I would look for a new version in about 6 to 9 months.

Ed, you made it sound as though there was another manual in addition to the "free" pdf file available for download.

Based on my experience with that particular manual, I'm having a really hard time referring to its contents as "wonderful."

If people were to read these posts more carefully...*sigh*...
anyway...there is a 350 PAGE manual available ...not for free...and very all inclusive..."wonderful" is a good adjective.

Bill, I did read the post, thank you very much. He referred to the manual in a pdf file which IS free and available for downloading. The sprial bound version, based on what the site says, is the same manual. Ed's post made it sound like there was another--separate--manual. Not all us here profess to know everything.

Jay...

Sorry, I can be a little caustic. If you go to the website I provided above in this thread, you'll see a manual that's $29.95. That's the one to get....forget the free one...you get what you pay for.

Thank you, Bill, for the clarification. Much appreciated. I guess we were talking about two different manuals.

Well, first I'd like to mention what I had originally meant to say in my post...

I have been following this message board for several months and learned a LOT from it. I believe this is one of the very best I've ever seen, in terms of design, contributions and most importantly, philosophy. My heartfelt thanks to all of you and especially to Mr. Hurd who's providing such a great forum.

Now back to your replies...

Kermie, it may be that you are more proficient (read: advanced) at all this stuff than you realize. On the other hand, we do NOT have a closed mind on anything so I really apreciate the encouragement. Your info about the creator of Final Cut/Premiere was most interesting. Too bad Adobe doesn't understand then that they should use that person's approach for ALL their software (can you imagine the market share they would get if they ever made PSP truly usable and dropped the price by half? No one could touch them! But I digress...)

Bill, I will be looking forward to whatever you hear at VAST. Thanks in advance for your update.

Edward, you seem quite knowledgeable about VV. What has your experience been with the company's upgrade policy, "bug-squashing" and support in general?

Anyone else cares to contribute?

Thanx for the compliment.


I do have a nagging problem with the adobe products which does really annoy me, is that they are never contained, if you use premiere it basicly means you must use after effects with it for final touches and/or other effects.

if you use photoshop you really need illustrator as well, but alas each program has a specific intention in mind, and the massive bloat(ware) would be unmanagable if they combined.

I personally feel that adobe has captured the feel throughout their programs, but yes you are completly correct in saying the functionality does differ a lot.

I am not closed minded at all, i want something that will give me the most freedom, and best results. I fell into premiere because it is a very predictable program, it does what you expect it to do, and is repeatable. Its' video side of things is about second to none, and really does give a lot of freedom in the type of projects 'I REQUIRE'. I say that big because i am talking about my uses not anyone elses.

But again its drawback is the audio side, which while functioning is very primative. Vegas video on the totally opposite side of the fence was first designed as an audio program then had video added in. If you think about that, you realise just how great it is for sound, but the video side is a tiny bit lacking, nothing wrong with it, but just ever so slightly falls behind premiere in that department.

One other thing for my needs that flew me back into adobe products is that i can open a premiere project in after effext (one of the more excellent compositors out there, with a nice and small learning curve too) then export the project with modifications back into premiere, if i really wanted to i could set up a frame serve and access the same file from many different programs.

You see everything has its advantages, i was lucky enough to be at a great university that got us student prices then supplemented the prices further as we required the programs for our course and we got them very very cheap.

Painshop pro i have used too, and for what it is, it is bloody fantastic, it lacks a tiny bit on photoshop but geez it does everything you could want realistically and is small and contained, it doubles up too and does vector type graphics like illustrator. But the tradeoff is always there, it is good but not quite as powerful.

You must choose what is correct for you, i suggest and i mean this seriously, is to go into a production house, or even better into a university, and find a person incharge of the media department or similar, and explain your position and ask if you can have a use of these programs running on a pc. Alot of shops when you buy them offer a 45 day return policy for trial. Thats another way. Ask if you can hang out with a student who is editing a presentation or short film on premiere and then find a trial of VV to play with.

I do suggest looking at what you need, and what you will need in the future, and remember that there are even more programs out there!!! And please don't discount anything until you have viewed them all, i was blessed with having them provided to me but you can do that too, and never discount anything until you have played with it, as you said adobe don't do everything equally so one program will be easy as others are difficult.

And rememeber if you need to in the future look at compositing which almost undoubtably you will, think of intergration with other programs, because whilst the best ones out there like 'shake' which is a $18,000 program on pc for the very latest version, whilst after effects of combustion are much cheaper, but of course after effects will integrate better.

Don't be scared of the learning curve, just enjoy exploring and having each project comming out nicer than the next, heck took me 4 years to semi master photoshop and i learn something new everytime i use it.

Kermie

ps. feel free to email me with any questions, help or advice on any of the programs you choose to go with, in the end it all comes down to you what the output is like, not the program.

pps. excuse the spelling it is late down here

The 350 page manual IS FREE and is downloadable as a pdf file from:

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/download/step2.asp?DID=367

It is an 8.6 meg download and is the complete instruction manual for Vegas Video 3. While it may not be the best manual in the world, it does a pretty good job of comprehisively discussing the various features.

I recommend printing it and putting it in a binder. If you can print it in color, it would be even better. This download is the exact same manual (actually it may be newer) as the $29.95 purchase.

"Edward, you seem quite knowledgeable about VV. What has your experience been with the company's upgrade policy, "bug-squashing" and support in general?"


I have found the upgrade policy to be very good. The upgrade from version 2 to 3 was $100 (or $150) and added many new features. As for bugs, they actively monitor the forums and are very responsive to phone calls. If there is a true problem, they will work to fix it. If it is a procedural error, they will give the correct procedure. As for bugs, they work hard to try to replicate problems and fix the bugs as they appear. Currently, VV has had 3 updates (current version is 3.0c) all of which are free updates. I have seldom seen a company that supports their customers better.

Here's another editor for your research list.

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage.asp?Product_ID=561&langue_id=7

To Miles J. What is your company going to be using the video technology for?

If it's relatively simple things like traning videos or something similar, Vegas Video would probably be fine (I have it, great program). But, if you're doing fancy stuff requiring batch lists, EDLs, and multiple edits (online/offline) then I believe Final Cut Pro is the best (or at least most affordable--1000 bucks for FCP versus 2000 for the home version of Avid) thing for you.

Sorry for the delay in following up, I've been out of the loop...

Thanks for the link, Mickey, Pinnacle Edition does indeed look like a real contender! I've added them to the short list.

Josh, I work for a non-profit, performing and educational organization (http://www.usatap.org/) that has gotten a small grant to purchase long-needed video recording/archiving equipment (and is looking for much more money to supplement that, wink, wink...) The list is long but one of the main components is of course a computer station dedicated to processing and archiving old and new video footage. One of the first tasks will be to archive - probably to DVD for now - more than two hundred hours of priceless footage (some going back to VHS) which for a number of reasons we do not want to farm out. We also shoot our own live dance/music concerts and I'm also working on a short list for a 3 ccd camcorder. As a matter of fact I will be posting a question about that on a separate forum.

By the way, are you all as concerned and upset as I am with this ridiculous, short-sighted format war with now at least 4 different DVD standards? Is there anything we users can do about it?

Anyway, I'm still VERY interested in hearing first-hand feedback from people who have purchased Vegas Video-based turnkey systems (especially any with Sound Forge also installed.) Anyone?

VV and BOXX technologies have an agreement to market a turnkey system based on SoFo products. I have built my own replica system that consists of a TYAN MP dually, AMD 1.2 Athlons, 1024 Mb Crucial ECC RAM, ATi Radeon 8500DV video, M-Audio 1010LT soundcard, etc. etc. The system has performed flawlessly with no hiccups or failures. I routinely to editting with VV3, produce audio streams for the video and send output to DVD or SVCD. I love this system.

> VV and BOXX technologies have an agreement to market a turnkey system based on SoFo products.

I guess you are referring to the one on Sonic Foundry's web page (http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products/NewShowProduct.asp?PID=674)? That's the only one we was aware of, and we weren't crazy about it because of the "older" OS used. Once we purchase the sytem we will probably upgrade all other PCs to Win XP pro to have optimal compatibilty in the company. However you post prompted me to go beyond the Sofo site and to the Boxx site and I found that they do make the machine with XP Pro. BUT, once configured with something like your sustem the price goes way high, and without options for VV software!

Why Sonic Foundry doesn't offer "audio-video bundles" of their evidently well-rated products truly baffles me! I bet if they knocked off a few hundred dollars of the separate prices they would sell a lot of these babies.

Might there be other vendors that build systems with Sonic Foundry software? My search didn't yield much.

> I have built my own replica system that consists of a TYAN MP dually, AMD 1.2 Athlons, 1024 Mb Crucial ECC RAM, ATi Radeon 8500DV video, M-Audio 1010LT soundcard, etc. etc. The system has performed flawlessly with no hiccups or failures. I routinely to editting with VV3, produce audio streams for the video and send output to DVD or SVCD. I love this system.

Well YOU know how to do this obviously. Lucky guy! Just out of curiosity, have you priced your total cost for this great system?

Miles...

Relative to your question re: pricing my system.....I have to admit that I have not. I'm afraid to know the answer...;-).

I'm sure there are a number of people around who could assemble such a system for you at a reasonable labor cost. It's really not that difficult. If you're wanting to consider doing that, I'd be glad to send you a list of my hardware...you can then go out and price the components for yourself. PRICEWATCH.com is a good place to find the best deal on components. Then, all you need is someone to assemble everything.

True. I would think You could get top notch stuff, if you bought the components separately, for under 1000 dollars (maybe well under- I paid about 400 and got a new motherboard, processor, case and fan which made my system an Athlon 1600 xp- previously a PIII 500--but you'll probably want even more power than this).

Okay, follow me here. I'm sizing a piece of video, with a my subject in the center of the frame. I want to cut out everything but a small area around the subject. After I do this, I want to move this sized area around, having it push onto the screen from offscreen.

I cannot accomplish this. Whenever I try to move the video, what actually moves is the sized area itself, over the video, as though I'm looking through a moving window. The video itself stays static, but the sized "window" through which I see the video moves over it. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, I've played with all the settings concerning aspect ratio and the like, have tried holding various keys while moving the video around, all to no avail. Someone save me!

Josh....

If I understand your problem correctly....
it sounds like you're trying to use the TRACK MOTION button instead of the EVENT PAN/CROP button. The Track Motion button appears on the left of the video tracks while the Event Pan/Crop appears at the right side of each individual event on the timeline. The difference between the two functions is very subtle, but, will result in the problem you're experiencing. Note that the Event Pan/Crop applies only to the Event that the button lies in. If you want to apply that Pan/Crop to all the events in the timeline, you've gotta set up a template and reset each event individually.

I don't think so. The event pan/crop button is the one on each event, on the right side. . .sort of square shaped. That's the one I clicked to get into the dialogue box. I'll take another look just in case. It'll let me size and move the video when it's at it's regular 4:3 ratio, but if I try to change the shape of the video and then move it, I experience the problem I described.

Yup, just checked. Definitely been using the pan/crop mode.

from what i can understand, this type of action you ar describing should really be done in a compositer...

That is what they are made for, whilst doing these in a video editing program may work it will not give you the flexability and advtanges of full control.

Adobe after effects is a great and simple one to use, if you are more inclined combustion works well too.

If you have a spare $18,000 apples 'shake' for pc and (s)mac(k)
is about the best you can get.

kermie

Kermie...

You're apparently not experienced with the latest technology. Vegas Video is a sign of things to come. No more hassles with the kind of problems associated with Adobe. Sure, if you can afford a mega-buck compositing program, go for it. If not Vegas Video is the best solution on the market. The compositing features of VV3 are unbeatably easy. I used to use premiere and AE, but, nevr again. They cost too much and are too difficult to use. Just my opinion.

1) use the pan/crop to select the area that you want in the final framing (don't worry about the size just the area you want to select) .
you might have to unlock aspect ratio ( maybe not) ...

2) now use the TRACK MOTION to set the image SIZE and where you want place it in the frame (you might have to unlock aspect ratio )
track motion will also allow you to move it across the frame by setting keyframes. so the image can move from left to right etc
in track motion you grab the darken area and move it LEFT till the image is not longer on the screen ( set key frame - there's a small time line in the track motion window) ) - now move darken area to right and the image will move screen right ( set key frame ) ... how fast -slow you want it to move will depend on how much time is between the 2 key frames.

if you want this clip to be on top of another clip then it will be the 1st Video track

this method will give you a basic square/rectangle type outline around subject ... if you want to attempt a outline around person then !! you'll have to try creating a matt or high contrast outline.

I agree with donatello. You have to use BOTH controls: Event Pan/Crop for cropping and Track Motion for sizing/movement. Vegas is very powerful once you understand how it works.

Also, look at keyframes so you can make things move/grow/shrink. The manual covers Pan/Crop, Track Motion, and keyframes very well.

All right sirs. . .I see. I assumed track motion had to do with an entire track of video or audio. I will try this new formula. Thanks for the help.

I have the Vegas plugin which lets you use film grain effects. Is there a plugin for VEgas which gives you the simulated dust particles and scratches on old film? Of what software would I need for such a plugin.

I also have Premiere 6 but no After Effects, so does this rule out the CINELOOK option, if that has such a feature. Also got PINNACLE STUDIO 7, but no plugins.

My copy of Vegas Video has "Sonic Foundry Film effects." You can tint the film, select how much of the "particles" you want, and the type of particle (hair, scratches, grain, dust, etc.). If you wanted both grain and scratches, you can just add the effect to your clip(s) twice.

I'm with Josh. My film plugin has all those abilities and more

Agreed, all of the effects are there - just not necessarily apparent at first. Play around with the control and you will find the additional options. Also, read the help file concerning that control. The options you want are there. You just have to find them.

Track Motion DOES affect the entire track. However, you can fine tune sections by using keyframes. Track Motion is a very powerful feature but you MUST use keyframes to get that power. If all you wanted was a pip in a small area, you could get by without keyframes. Otherwise, you need keyframes to reach the full power of Track Motion. BUT, You DO have to be careful when you have multiple clips on a single track when you use Track Motion.

Yeah, I tried it right after my last post. I'll tweak it when it's time to output. Thanks for the advice.

Yes I have found the film effects plugin now. It was well concealed! Very good feature indeed. Many thanks, just what I wanted. Looks quite convincing as well....

Also might want to play with color balance/color curves, as well as brightness and contrast.

I don't really know about this stuff, so bear with me. In Vegas Video 3, under the general preferences, there is an option to "strictly adhere to AVI2 specifications." On, I believe, all of my projects, this box is not checked. What does that mean, exactly. If I go into one of these projects and check the box, will anything change, or do I have to do this before I start capturing footage?

The reason I ask is because there is a program called virtual dub that de-interlaces, among other things, but it won't work with AVI files, only AVI2 (several others, but AVI2 is what I'm concerned with).

I'd like to try it out, and I want to know if I need to recapature footage with that AVI2 preference activated, or what.

I believe that setting ONLY affects RENDERED avi's - not captured. Do the captured avi's work with VirtualDub? I have never used VirtualDub as Vegas does everything I need - including de-interlacing.

i know that the VV v 2h capture utility allows you the choice to capture as type 1 or 2. i still have it on my computer for that reason ... the captured files do work with VV3

I have already made several short creations with vv3 and it is great. But a very simple effect eludes me. I am trying to place text over video, like placing someones name below them as they speak. I have been all through text and media but can't seem to get a transparent background. I get the effect in the video but I can't get text only no background, any help would be appreciated.
thanks

Very easy .......just put the title in a new video track over the track where video is..... If you don't know how create a new video track, just need make a right click over the timeline....

Blue

How do you set it to capture type 2. . .? Also, it SEEMS that on Virtual Dub, there is a way to change the framerate of incoming footage. Maybe I'm reading the program wrong. Under Video/Frame rate, there's an option to change the frame rate of source video. Does this mean you could bring 60i video in at 24fps, or am I retarded? If it did bring it in at 24fps, would it slow it down to that frame rate, or actually remove six frames per second?

Simple problem that I made hard. I didn't understand that the checkerboard background was transparent.
Thanks for the help.
Don

I am seeing alot of positive responses regarding Video Vegas 3.0. It sounds like an excellent program. I was wondering if it is possible to import music from a CD in your CD ROM Drive onto your footage from the Canon XLS-1?

I am an amatuer at vegas video and I was able to do that the first day ( I have had it for 9 days now). The screen view is a timeline up top with windows you can open in the bottom (you can also drag top and bottom around to make one bigger than the other). I keep the master volume, the preview screen, the text generator and the media pool open. The media pool is an area to bring in pieces that you may drag to the timeline to create the audio and video track. On top of the media pool window are icons for CD, camera, and computer, etc., which let you download from those areas into the media pool. I scanned the front of the vegas video book on my flatbed scanner and put it in easily. When you open up cd it recognizes how many tracks are on the cd, you highlight which ones you want, and it downloads it into the media pool. This program is very easy and is loaded with features ( and unlike pinnacle studio they all actually work). I have a very short piece where I made an opening with music and credits, I really didn't have anything for content so I did a TV out of the nascar 2002 game and used it. Scrolling credits were to fast and I finally found the velocity envelopes to slow it down, made credits at the end and everything, fades, wipes, fade music, so easy that it allows your creative side to come alive rather than tasking your technical side.

Tom, Vegas has complete multitrack recording and editing features for Audio. It has built in CD ripping tools (really fast too). This in addition to great effects tools. Supports up to 24/96 audio, but doesn't yet support surround mixing (Acid Pro 4 does).
If you have SoundForge, you can use it as a audio editing/recording plugin for Vegas too. Sofo products all seem to work together well, with a simialr look and feel. If you know one, you know most of the rest of them.

Todd: I've about 5 years using Premiere, and in my opinion Vegas 3.0 is far better than Premiere; it's a very powerfull and stable NLE. I have about 5 months using Vegas 3 (6 hours per day) and never got a crash.

The only area where Premiere has advantage over Vegas is in the number of plug-ins available. For me that is a minor advantage 'cause I use AE or similar composers for compositing and FX.....

To "slow down" scrolling credits, you do NOT need to use the velocity envelope. What you need to do is specify how long you want the credits to run. In the upper right hand corner of the editing box, there is a time display that will show something like 00:00:10;00 - This would specify the roll is to last for 10 seconds. If you want it to last one minute instead, change it to 00:01:00;00.

Once you have changed the time in the box, you now need to extend the event to that length. Once you have reached that length, there is a small triangle indicating that point and it will snap to that location. Now, the scroll will last for the new specified length of time.