Normally I buy anything I need from dvinfo sponsors, but I recently bought a NEW,SEALED IN THE BOX, Sony FX1 from a local guy who sells a lot of stuff on Ebay.The price was $400 cheaper than retail,and he let me open the box and test the camera in his house. It worked fine,had all the new paprework,and I bought it and took it home.
We did a two camera shoot and I hooked up one of my Firestore FS4's to the Sony.The FS4 crashed after 1/2 hour. I thought the problem was in the FS4, but then I tried to capture the tape by firewire and it wouldn't work. The problem was in the FX1.
Short story long....I called Sony and they gave me an event number and told me to send it to their service center,Precision Camera, in Conn.After calling Preision for two weeks, they finally advised me that it would cost $511 to fix,because my bill of sale wasn't from an "authorized Soney dealer". And after talking/pleading with several Sony phone agents, from the sony robot to "level2 customer support",I was told
1-That they couldn't cover the repair
2-That the camera had NO warranty for future problems, and, even better...
3-That I couldn't even BUY an extended warranty from Sony for possible future problems.
I advised Sony that there is NOTHING on their warranty form that mentions an "authorized Spny dealer". It only requires a "bill of sale or receipt".
As I open up a new tube of preparation H, I vow to-
1-Never buy anything more expensive than a roll of gaffers tape from anyone except B+H, and
2- NEVER spend another cent, as long as I live, with Sony-the company that gives the big, dry baloney, but no vaseline.
Bruce S. Yarock

That the camera had NO warranty for future problems, and, even better... [...] NEVER spend another cent, as long as I live, with Sony-the company that gives the big, dry baloney, but no vaseline.
I'm really sorry to hear you had to go through that experience, however, that's not fair to say. Sony USA provides the warranty service for Sony products that are imported into the United States through Sony USA. Many dealers sell what is called "Grey Market" goods. What this means is that they have been imported directly from the country of origin. It's not really Sony USA's camera, it's the camera from the importer. It's the importer who is responsible for the warranty. Reputable sellers like B+H are up front about this, and often offer a choice, USA Warranty or Their Own. And as an importer, they handle the warranty repairs themselves. B+H is exemplary in this respect. The party that deserves being shunned is the dealer that sold you the camera and did not explain to you what grey market is nor offered an extended warranty or some kind of warranty to back up the camera they sold you.

Asking Sony USA to cover the warranty repair of a grey market camera is like expecting them to cover a product that's not really theirs. When you pay more for products that are distributed through the local importer's network, you're paying for the cost of running the distribution and service organization. Often when you work with a dealer that charges you more than the grey marketeer you're also paying for a higher level of service, and not just through the distributor/importer. For example, our local Sony dealer here in Boston, Rule Broadcast Systems, offers a loaner for the first two years up to 30 days if any Sony camera you buy from them has to go into service. Now that's an example of service. I can get a Sony camera cheaper from other dealers, but Rule's service makes it worth going through them and the Sony USA distributor.

There is an excellent article on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market) on the topic of grey market.

It's "not fair to say" because it didn't happen to you. How do you know that it was a "grey market" model? You don't. And if Sony wanted to get off that big, swollen multinational behind, and help a consumer, they could simply check their data base for the serial number. With the serial number, they could find out where the camera was sold, and who the distributor/ supplier was.If they did that, and told me that the camera was really destined for the Palestinian market, for example, at least that would constitute a minimal effort. They didn't even have the decency to check that far.And over the years I've spent thousands of dollars on Sony items...tv's, camcorders, microphones, etc.,etc.
As I said, NEVER AGAIN will I purchase a Sony product!
Bruce S. Yarock

"I'm really sorry to hear you had to go through that experience"

David,
After writing my response to your post, I realized that I missed your first sentence.Thanks for your empathy. I still,however, feel the same way about the Japanese giant.
Bruce yarock

Very sorry you're going through this, Bruce, but your experience would not have been any different had you bought a grey market Canon, Panasonic or JVC camcorder. In other words, I think your frustration is somewhat misplaced. Sony hasn't handled your situation any differently than any other manufacturer would have. The trouble you've run into is "the price one pays" by trying to save money making a purchase through an unauthorized dealer going through Ebay. This is exactly why I strongly recommend against that practice, and making major purchases instead only through the normal distribution channels of authorized dealers approved by the various manufacturer's U.S. offices (such as our DV Info Net sponsors, for instance).

The bright side in your case is that you're only down by $111 ($400 - $511). It could have been a lot worse than that, but thankfully it isn't.

Point here being, Sony hasn't reacted to you any differently than any other camcorder manufacturer would have, and that's a key thing to understand. Fortunately a $111 defecit isn't that big of a deal relative to the total value of the camera!

Moved to Taking Care of Business from the FX1 / Z1 forum. This isn't a camera topic so much as it is a business topic.

Chris,
Thanks for the reply. Actually, the cost was $611, icncluding packing, shipping and insurance. In addition, there' no warramty on any future problems! So i have to either cros my fingers, or spend MORE money on an aftermarket warranty. And of course there's the issue of not being able to use it for several weeks.
The other thing that you guys are missing is that you don't know whether or not it's grey market. Sony wouldn't even go that far to check. The guy I bought it from has never actually sold an expensive cam before. He buys close out lots of electronics from liquidation auctions. that camera probably came from some US dealer who had financial trouble. As I said, Sony could easily check their data base, and state where it came from.
And most important of all is this question. Did Sony make any less profit on this camera? No...they made more because they can refuse to service a defective item.
Bruce Yarock

I say you put it back on ebay, take your money, and buy a JVC. At least one person from JVC is on this board regularly. I don't see anybody representing the other big 3 chatting with us working slobs.

Keith,
What do you think someone would pay for a non warranty FX1 that's had to go back to the service center for a firewire problem? I'll have $3300 in it including the best Sony battery.A new warrantied model from B+H is (I think) $3300 with the battery.
Bruce S. Yarock
P.S.- I'm going to the Canon XLH1 presentation today...wish I could afford one.

Just an example of how what *is* can be vastly different from what should be. Although we all have to live with it, frankly I think it's corporate double talk in action designed to screw the consumer when Sony or some other manufacturer says "Sony USA is a separate company from Sony Canada from Sony Japan, etc). Bull! Sony is Sony is Sony. When I but a Sony product, I'm not buying a Sony Canada product, I'm buying a Sony product and it's Sony Corporate that should be responsible for any costs for warrantee coeverage etc. I send the camera to Sony Canada and they send the bill to Sony Corporate in Tokyo who charges it against the factory manager's annual bonus (grin) and as long as it was manufactured in a Sony factory or sold under the Sony name it shouldn't matter what happend between the plant QC line and me. At least that's the way it SHOULD work even though as we all know it doesn't.

Steve,
Thank you.
Bruce S. Yarock

\Did Sony make any less profit on this camera? No...they made more because they can refuse to service a defective item.
Bruce Yarock
Actually, Sony (the manufacturer) makes different amounts of money depending on how you purchase the camera, because grey market importers buy cameras in markets where they can buy it cheaper than from the local county's distributor. In effect, they are doing arbitrage, taking advantage of different market conditions and currency fluctuations.

This is by no means to say that manufacturers should not own up to their reponsibility to service their products and offer warranties. Too bad Sony does not listen and participate on these boards the way Panasonic and JVC representatives do. They might learn a thing or two about how to deal with their customers.

One warranty that I think is exemplary that more vendors should copy is Apple's AppleCare. It's a three year extended warranty with direct support and service from the vendor and it's transferable, so it does not matter of Bill buys a computer and later sells it on eBay to Sandy, as Bill can transfer the AppleCare to Sandy so she has warranty coverage for the remaining time. No fuss, no muss, and it does not matter thant it changed hands in the middle of the warranty period. I wish more manufacturers would follow this model.

This is by no means to say that manufacturers should not own up to their reponsibility to service their products and offer warranties. Too bad Sony does not listen and participate on these boards the way Panasonic and JVC representatives do. They might learn a thing or two about how to deal with their customers.



Actually, I think Sony doesn't really care what a few professional or prosumer people on a board like this think about their consumer side cameras. They are in the business of mass marketing a decent product, at a low price point. That means on the FX1 side, for instance, they have to limit their liability under warrantees. They are up front about it, and we get what we pay for. Would you pay $4,500 for the the FX1 and a three year all cost covered warranty ? Maybe, and maybe you would buy the Z1 instead. And if you buy your camera from a lot of dealers, they offer extended warranties.

Second, Sony's authorized dealers pay premium prices for that designation. If Sony offered the same warranty "reliability" in non-authorized dealer transactions, where is the authorized dealer network going to go ? They all start going grey market too.

So Bruce, you but your money on Red, and it came up Black. It happens, and you lost on this one.

You're right, I'm thinking more pro than consumer, but in today's world the consumers are also very multinational. If I buy a Nikon camera in New York and am in Kuala Lampur when something goes wrong, it shouldn't matter if I'm on assignment for National Geographic or on vacation at Club Med, or even a resident who bought it on vacation in New York, I should be able to get that camera repaired at any place that displays the Nikon logo. I'm buying from Nikon, period, and how they arrange their tax shelters from one country to the next shouldn't enter into that picture.

"So Bruce, you but your money on Red, and it came up Black. It happens, and you lost on this one.
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos "


more like 00.

Bruce S. Yarock

I'd take 100.00 bucks and consult an attorney.

Bruce,
Check to see if your unit has the serial number on it or whether it was removed. That's one way to tell if it's grey market.

Is it clear that the documentation is in English and "original" or is it photocopied?

Did it include a Warranty card/information (do they still do that?) in the manual?

The fact that Sony wants to see your receipt to me indicates that they no longer judge the warranty by the serial number alone. I have a hunch Sony has taken the position that they will not honor the warranty if you bought it from an unauthorized dealer even if the serial number marks it as a legit USA destined model.

I remember being at a trade show and talking to a Sony rep and for some reason they practically interrogated me on whether the cameras I purchased where from authorized dealers or not. I wasn't bringing it in for service. This was at a trade show.

Craig-
The serial number is present, in english. All of the paperwork is present.I have a friend who bought one from a "dealer', and the contained paperwork is EXACTLY the same.
The difference between the greedy,irresponsable multinational, and the smaller company interested in it's customers, can be seen by noting which companies have a presence on the net forums.
When I had a problem with one of my Firestore FS4's, Matt Mcewan from Videonics answered me right here on this forum. When I needed to send back a unit which I bought used, but was still under warranty, there was no interrogation as to what type of dealer I bought it from.
There are many responsable comapnies in this industry. Sony is NOT one of them. Sony is too big, too powerfull,too impersonal, and too greedy to concern themselves with customer service (unless the customer is spending BIG money).
As I said earlier, not one more penny of mine goes to that bloated multi...
Bruce S. Yarock

Maybe I missed it, but what was the specific reason Sony gave for not honoring the warranty?

Glenn,
For the whole thread, go back to part one. The reason I got from Sony's Indonsesian customer service robot was that I hadn't bought it from a "sony authorized dealer".
Bruce Yarock

Dont surrender so early Bruce. The guy you bought it from may be able to submit it for a warranty repair. At some point, SOMEBODY got it from an autorized dealer. Worst case for you is that the warranty began when THEY purchased it. The other thing you can do, is contact the state attorney general in your state as well as the BBB. Trust me when I tell you that even these small cases are treated with amazing respect by both parties.

If indeed the camera IS grey market... you are just plain SOL... not Sony's fault at all, just a brutal lesson. In your paperwork should be a warranty card or paper, if it says USA Warranty, I am confident you will get the unit repaired for free. If it says International Warranty, that means it is grey market and not meant for USA sale. There have been some cases of people switching warranty papers but it is pretty rare...


ash =o)

Chris,
The guy I bought it from has never actually sold an expensive cam before. He buys close out lots of electronics from liquidation auctions.

I think your answer is buried here. A quick $400 save by someone who has never sold expensive cameras before should have had you questioning its authenticity. Authorised dealers may add a small premium to the price but it's that premium that is your life line when something goes wrong.

"I think your answer is buried here. A quick $400 save by someone who has never sold expensive cameras before should have had you questioning its authenticity"

You're trying to make it sound like the cam wasn't authentic. That's ridiculous.
Everything in the new sealed box-camera, paperwork, etc., was EXACTLY the same as any other FX1 bought in the US. The fact that sony refuses to honor the warranty on a new FX1 is the real issue.
There are loads of reputable companies that DO honor their warranties, regardless of who sells their product.
As I said in my first post- For future purchases, I'll never buy anything more expensive than a roll of gaffers tape from anyone other than B+H.But I'll NEVER buy another sony product either.
Bruce Yarock

Bruce,

It sounds like you have a legit US model. Again, I think Sony's game is that if the dealer isn't "authorized" they won't honor the warranty.

I don't think you should bear the burden if the camera is legit. I'd contact BBB, contact the state Attorney General and consider taking some action against Sony.

Giving a dealer "authorized" support is one thing. Honoring a warrantied unit is something different. The dealer can't be the "go between" in this case but I believe you have the right to expect warranty service on a unit which doesn't appear to be grey market.

Gee Bruce,

Like others here, I'm sorry to hear about the unfortunate problem you have with your camera. Your frustration with Sony's response is quite evident. I don't know what the entire story is behind the camera so I won't take your side or Sony's side.

I am a bit curious though as to how the camera came into the possession of the seller you bought from. You said the camera was New, Sealed in the box. What explanation, if any, did he give you for how he happened to have it? And, if it was sealed in the box, why did he open it for you? What if you didn't buy it? Would he advertise it to the next person as "new, sealed in the box?" I've seen some ebay sellers who claim "it's brand new in the box", then they go on to say the box was opened to verify that all the accessories were there. Was that the case with this box?

And if he is local, can or did you get in touch with him and ask him to return your money? Maybe that would resolve your problem as far as that specific camera goes. Then you don't have to be concerned with Sony's service.

If he is a seller of any kind, he could possibly be held liable for selling you a defective product. Consult your local laws or an attorney regarding that. Did you get any kind of receipt that stated you were buying "as is"?

I personally own 3 VX2100's. My first one I bought from a guy on ebay. The others came from B&H. Fortunately, the ebay 2100 has performed great. I haven't had to deal with Sony's customer service over any repair issues so I don't know how they would treat me if I had to.

Good Luck

Jeff

"I don't think you should bear the burden if the camera is legit. I'd contact BBB, contact the state Attorney General and consider taking some action against Sony."

Craig,
Thanks for the input. Once I get the camera back, I'll look into taking some kind of action.

Jeff,
I've been talking to the guy who sold it to me, and he's obviously concerned about my suing him. I told him to try and get me an invoice from an "authorized dealer", or come up with some $$.
The story I got from him was that he bought it at auction from a liquidator in New Jersey. But then...who knows? the box was sealed and had all the correct paperwork. As far as I can see, sony quite simply wants to squirm out of warrantying as many defective products as possible.
Bruce S. Yarock

Bruce,

I thought I had read the thread thoroughly but, I guess I missed it. You said "Once I get the camera back". Where is the camera?

And quite honestly, I think you will be better off going for a return of money from the seller.

What are you really after? Trying to win a battle with Sony's Warranty Department so you can have THAT camera, or just getting your money back so you can get a different camera that won't cause you grief?

Get the cash if you can. Go to small claims court if needed.

Jeff

Sony's limited warranty clearly states that they need a "proof of purchase in the form of sales or receipted invoice which is evidence that the unit is within the Warranty period". I don't think that the Ebay seller invoice is good to establish that date of sale. Even if the seller finds the original invoice, which sounds unlikley, it has probably been over a year, don't you think?

Sony's limited warranty clearly states that they need a "proof of purchase in the form of sales or receipted invoice which is evidence that the unit is within the Warranty period". I don't think that the Ebay seller invoice is good to establish that date. Even if the seller finds the original invoice, which sounds unlikley, it is probably been over a year, don't you think?

Glenn,

Bruce's contention is that he has an invoice from the one who sold the camera to him and that Sony's warranty verbiage doesn't specify 'from an authorized Sony dealer'. But that's what they are telling him.

In Sony's mind, the camera is gray market if it hasn't been sold to the end user by an 'authorized Sony dealer' because there should be no other way to obtain a new, sealed in the box camera.

Also, keep in mind that Bruce got the camera from a seller who claims to have purchased it from a 'liquidator'. Ok, so how did the liquidator come into possession of the camera? Did the liquidator purchase it from an 'authorized Sony dealer' who was going out of business or a wholesaler?

I too feel bad about what happened to Bruce, but I also have some questions as did Jeff Emery earlier in this thread.

I also have to put on the wrangler hat for a moment to remind everyone that personal rants are a violation of DVINFO posting policy. We probably need to let this thread die down until Bruce has some relevant info on the outcome. Continuing to badmouth the manufacturer isn't going to do any good and likely won't be tolerated. The point has been made, now let's sit back and wait for the outcome.

regards,

-gb-

Really? They won't honour their warranty? This gives me an idea to start a new website called, DVpoo.com. :-)

Bruce, you mentioned the possibility of buying an after-market, independent extended warranty. If you can find a reliable warranty company that will cover this camcorder at this point in the process and it is reasonably priced, I'd definitely do that. This current repair problem is probably a loss for you, but over the next 4 or 5 years, it's very likely you'll need more repairs and they might cost much more.

Trying to squeeze money out of Sony would be a waste of time, in my opinion and you'd probably lose even more money in trying it. Unless you could prove that this "clearance-sale" dealer mislead you into believing that he was authorized by Sony, you wouldn't have much of a case against him. Of course, you could always ask him to refund your money or take some action that would benefit you in this affair. If it appears that the fault was present when the camcorder was delivered, this might lead to a pleasant surprise, if he wants your continued business and goodwill.

Your experience has put the rest of us on guard against getting into this situation. Before buying anything from anyone, I always check with the manufacturer to certify that it is truly an authorized dealer. I've seen more than one dealer that claimed to be authorized for numerous brands, but the manufacturers said they weren't.

Sounds good to me ,Greg. I decided to pay for the repair so that I couldat least have the cam back in working condition. In the meantime I can figure out what I want to do vis-a-vis the guy who sold it to me,sony, reporting to the BBB, small claims court, or whatever.
Lesson learned.
Thanks
Bruce S. Yarock

I Don 't want to seem the Devil's advocate, here, but the very fact that you sourced the product at $400 less than retail would suggest that it may have been a risky investment. Hey if it worked Ok .. but it didn't so maybe its -difficuolt to reclaim from your position from here but good luck!!

I think Sony's game is that if the dealer isn't "authorized" they won't honor the warranty.Just to clarify one more time, this isn't "Sony's game," it's any major camcorder manufacturer, Sony is not treating this situation any differently than Canon, Panasonic or JVC would have. If Bruce had bought a problematic Canon, Panasonic or JVC camcorder from that Ebayer, his experience would have been exactly the same. With *any* camcorder manufacturer, warranty repair service is offered only to those customers who buy from authorized dealers. I'm not saying that's the right thing to do; I'm just saying that's how it is. If I were Bruce, I'd go after the Ebay seller... and then I'd never buy a new camcorder from an Ebayer again (it can be a great resource for used gear though).

Just to clarify one more time, this isn't "Sony's game," it's any major camcorder manufacturer, Sony is not treating this situation any differently than Canon, Panasonic or JVC would have. If Bruce had bought a problematic Canon, Panasonic or JVC camcorder from that Ebayer, his experience would have been exactly the same. With *any* camcorder manufacturer, warranty repair service is offered only to those customers who buy from authorized dealers. I'm not saying that's the right thing to do; I'm just saying that's how it is. If I were Bruce, I'd go after the Ebay seller... and then I'd never buy a new camcorder from an Ebayer again (it can be a great resource for used gear though).

And just to add to Chris' excellent post, that goes for camera rebates as well. We seem to definitely get warned from the manufacturers that rebates and promotions will only be honored if purchased by an authorized dealer. Look at the current XLH1 Firestore promotion, or the A/B battery promotion on the JVC HD100 as examples.

-gb-

See this from PC World.

http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2012p057id105833.htm

This is why I asked if his serial number had been removed. If it's a good serial number, Sony should provide Bruce the service.

Bruce, maybe you should contact Grace Aquino consumerwatch@pcworld.com
Note in Grace's article she contacted Greg Dvorken of Sony. Mr. Dvorken states that as long as the consumer has a bill of sale/invoice, Sony would perform warranty service.

There is absolutley nothing I've ever seen by Sony promulgating information that they do not honor valid serial numbered units from unauthorized dealers. While they do discourage such purchases I do not believe that affects the warranty (as long as it's a legit serial number).

-----------

Moderator note: Removed copyrighted text form PC World. See the link above for the actual text.

Thanks, Craig. I'll follow those two leads.
Bruce S. Yarock

The FX1 firewire output setup can be a little confusing, with both HDV and downconverted SD output options. My guess is that you've got some setting somewhere screwed up and your FX-1 is fine. Really make sure it is messed up before you spend any cash fixing it.

laurence,
The firewire plug (and probably the pcp) was fried...useless...not functioning. I tried everything. I't on its' way back from Sony's rip off warranty center, and I shoul have it tommorrow. let's hope it works, since it cost me $611 to fix...
Thanks anyways,
Bruce S. Yarock

Bruce,

I hope it works out for you man and if it is a firewire problem, then maybe a fuse just needs to be replaced.

But you know what, how do you know the guy you bought it from Ebay didn't fry the firewire and in return tried to sell it online for that very reason. And because your honest about it you would rather fix it right. I had a very dodgy guy trying to sell me his PSX on ebay, he had mod-chipped it but then fried the circuits.

I would get the shi#ts at the dealer for selling you a defective product and not Sony.

It may be helpful to realise how manufacturers set up their distribution bases for some of you guys to understand why local offices refuse to maintain equipment that has not been sold direct or through their official dealer channel.

Firstly, all regional offices are set up to fulfil local requirements. They employ engineers (support and demonstration), sales staff, marketers and administrators dependent on the business that is generated in that district.

Each office is a cost-centre (business) in its own right. They have individual sales targets, which they have to meet to pay their support, sales, administration, rent, light and heat costs etc. Each centre has to purchase equipment and usually pay import duty, local tax and shipping from HQ (some are even charged for marketing collateral) at a rate of between 22% and 75% discount, this percentage varies quite substantially between hardware and software. Some offer less, some more but they are extremes.

Regional offices which run a dealer network pass on a somewhat smaller discount to resellers, retaining the margin to pay towards there own running costs. Of course some manufacturers choose distributors to run dealer networks in areas that have a smaller customer base, though these are run on similar lines.

The crux is that no regional cost-centre wants to handle (and pay for) the support of a product that has not profited it with a sale. Grey imports hurt local offices as they undermine their income and therefore their ability to exist and grow. HQ will not pay for support without full warranty documentation as it doesn’t want to be seen as encouraging grey imports and upset the regions.

You may not like it, but at least knowing it gives you the choice.

Now, not all companies work in exactly the same way of course, but I have yet to come across any major manufactering business that varies from the above very much. And all companies have different work ethics and attitudes towards customer service. Just thinking of two major companies that we deal with on a day to day basis. One is great to deal with: friendly, open, fun. Dealing with the other is similar to chewing glass. Both these attitudes are institutionally top-down as the founders had very different attitudes towards business. Neither will support grey imports for free.

What is disasterous, in my opinion, is mechanised support. Human beings please (at least you just might come across an individual who is willing to be more helpful).

Denise Haskew
Showreel

Bruce, we understand how frustrating this is for you but I've had to edit this thread. The seller's nationality has nothing to do with your warranty issue. Let's try to stay on-topic.

I'd like to offer my personal experience...

I bought my FX1 off the grey market... (At the time I didnt know it was.)

I too was frustrated to learn that I had no Australian Warranty as the camera was obviously from China. (It had both Chinese and English manuals.)

After a long talk with a friend who works in Canon, I quickly understood that if you want a camera fixed in YOUR country, you pay for the camera in that country.

Globalisation makes this idea mute... because the market barriers are torn down. But currently it will be a VERY long time until that happens. Until then, economics will play out the way it does.

Immagine, you sell food all over the world. You have 2 dealers in germany. But someone (unknown) from Germany buys some food from China to sell in Germany... Then someone gets food poisoning. Its not the 2 dealers' fault THEY have to deal with that problem SOMEONE else brought into the country.

Thats why grey dealers offer thier own warranties (often shipping them back to the original country) because it was a "deffective Chinese food item."

I guess we have to live with our mistakes.

Its not so much "I hate sony." Its more like, I hate the system that allows people to work the system. ALWAYS buy from local reputable merchants. Online is always a bad idea.

I'd like to offer my personal experience...

I bought my FX1 off the grey market... (At the time I didnt know it was.)

I too was frustrated to learn that I had no Australian Warranty as the camera was obviously from China. (It had both Chinese and English manuals.)

After a long talk with a friend who works in Canon, I quickly understood that if you want a camera fixed in YOUR country, you pay for the camera in that country.

Globalisation makes this idea mute... because the market barriers are torn down. But currently it will be a VERY long time until that happens. Until then, economics will play out the way it does.

Immagine, you sell food all over the world. You have 2 dealers in germany. But someone (unknown) from Germany buys some food from China to sell in Germany... Then someone gets food poisoning. Its not the 2 dealers' fault THEY have to deal with that problem SOMEONE else brought into the country.

Thats why grey dealers offer thier own warranties (often shipping them back to the original country) because it was a "deffective Chinese food item."

I guess we have to live with our mistakes.

Its not so much "I hate sony." Its more like, I hate the system that allows people to work the system. ALWAYS buy from local reputable merchants. Online is always a bad idea.

The philosophic problem I have with that and Denise's points is that regardless of which division we are talking about, in the end it's all owned by the same company. The profits from all the divisions and regional sub-companies ultimately go into the same bank account in the end and the expenses all come out of the same bucket. So my argument still holds - brand X is brand X and none of the organizational structures should make any difference.