Bold title :-)

I just downloaded the 30 day trial of Edius pro 3. After watching some of the tutorial videos I made a short project. And except the cheesy GUI, I must say that I'm impressed. Colorcorrection filter and Blur is realtime on my 4.6ghz AMD X2, and smooth! Neither Vegas or PPro is this "fluid".

So what are the obvious drawbacks with edius? I can see two right away:

1. No scripting, like PPro - why can't they learn...
2. Not so widely used - small usergroup
3..... cheesy GUI, no big deal - I just don't like programs that re-invents the wheel...(iTunes being another wheel-inventor)

Advantages:

1. Fast
2. Rather cheap, even if you buy the hardware bundled version

Hit me in the head with Edius options!

// Lazze

ps. Doens ANYONE know what Edius DVX is? What is the bundled HW card? ds.

Either no one uses Edius, or all of you agree that Edius is better than PPro and Vegas :-)

//Lazze

LOL
Edius is indeed a powerful tool with some drawbacks (much like a fat cigar but sometimes going down the wrong hole... )

i like it for filter and colour processing due to speed. Th ecodecs are super clean and fast, near realtime and for a piece of softwre to do this, its pretty incredible. i cant stand the GUI... like liquid, it takes some getting used to and IMO its trying to be a mixture of every other NLE as opposed to being "itself"

Yes it is good, but like a good cigar, its an acquired taste

The DEMO version of Edius Pro shuts it self down when I import a MPEG file, can anyone confirm is this happens on a licensed version as well?

// Lazze

my licensed version kills itslef after 3 or so months or if i dont use it for a while.. so i cave to continueously reinstal it..

the shop unit with an SP card doesnt do this though..

I'd say Edius hasn't caught on because it lacks the full feature set and third-party support of more established video editing programs, plus it has one of the least standardized and non-intuitive interfaces of any Windows program ever written. Apparently they've finally gotten the message on this latter point and added standard pull-down menus in version 4, but it will still take a lot of trial and error with poor documentation to figure out how to do basic tasks in Edius.

Once you get past the interface Edius isn't bad and whips everyone else for true real-time capabilities, but then it doesn't handle well when those real-time abilities are exceeded. I use Edius for most of my video production work, but would love to have a day to sit down with the programmers and explain to them how it could be made more intuitive and efficient without changing the overall design. Maybe now that Canopus has been bought by Thomson/Grass Valley we'll see some improvements.

One of the ironies right now is that Edius apparently has *the* best support for editing footage from the Panasonic HVX200 camera, but good luck getting anyone to care about that. It's just too funky and marginalized a product to get much mainstream attention, even though it can be very handy for basic to intermediate editing. I'm looking forward to doing real-time HD editing with Edius on a dual-core laptop, but I'll probably wait for the next round of laptop processor improvements before making that leap.

Could you please expand on the Non - intuitive gui ???

How whold you compare the Gui and the full fetures to the Vegas 6 ?

Any sites with big user base for those ???

So far Edius has not included the conventional Windows style menu bar - that will arrive with v4 due in the next month. It has a wide array of buttons - you decide which you want on the various menu bars - but some features are to be found in unexpected places. This tends to confuse at first. Some don`t like the gui at all; others seem to adapt to it quickly and without any problems. It is easier to get to grips with Edius now because Canopus has posted some very useful tutorials on their web site.

I am unfamiliar with the Vegas gui so am unable to comment on differences. Vegas has better sound editing features. Edius offers better real time performance and, I believe, the ability to edit a wider range of camera formats.

My definition of an intuitive software program is one which allows someone who has never seen it before to figure it out with a minimum of trial and error or resorting to reading the manual. In Edius it's not obvious how to start capturing video or even find the online help file, which would be two of the first things almost anyone using the program might want to do. Once you understand how Edius works it's not bad, but that can be said for almost anything. The people who designed Edius intentionally violated several standards for how Windows software programs usually work, and what they did failed to make the program easier to use. Being different isn't always good, even if it does seem clever at the time.

Just to note, Edius is also the first (and so far only) PC-based NLE that can handle Canon's proprietary 30F and 24F frame modes from the XL H1.

I like EDIUS.
I have now, for a couple of years used EDIUS software. Before I decided to go with it I have been using consumer Pinnacle software, tried Ulead and a demo of PP.
For me EDIUS was more intuitive than the above-mentioned programs and the problems I have experienced are minor.
When I used Pinnacle it was more the rule that it crashed. With EDIUS it hardly newer happen!!
I have now bought a F330 XDCAM HD camera, the mxf HD files, is not yet supported by EDIUS, they will be, in a month or so…Software only versions should be shipping this month.
To make me able to edit the HD files, from my new camera, I rushed out and bought Avid Liquid.
For me this program was not intuitive at all.. However, the worst thing, it was so slow that it nearly make me lose my mind.
Edius is fast, even with HD files, when you do some thing, it happens immediately.
In the last couple of month, I had also had the opportunity to try out Vegas6, it is, to me, completely impossible to figure out.
So what am I saying here?
We are not alike, what is easy to some people is not to other and visa versa.
EDIUS is definitely a useable program, with lots of tools build into it.
So do not let you scare of because not a lot of other people use it.

I like EDIUS....EDIUS is definitely a useable program, with lots of tools build into it.
So do not let you scare of because not a lot of other people use it.

I agree Brian. i have been using Edius for a little over a year now and can't wait for v4. I have found it very easy to ease and very fast. Any program will take time getting used to. If you spend enough time using it, I'm sure that all the programs are very good in their own way. I just prefer (and have learned how to use) Edius.

I'm a Premiere user for a long time, but its ugly slowmotion is killing me.
I do mostly weddings so slowmo is a big deal to me.
I've been considering switching to another NLE for a while now, but just can't force myself and decide.
I am in a dillemma between Vegas and Edius.
I read Vegas had very good slowmo and speed change. (velocity envelope)
But the speed of rendering and editing multiple tracks is very important to me.
I'm also eager to make it H/W accelerated.

So the question is- How good does Edius handle slowmotion and does it have speedchange (not sure how you call it) like Vegas?

Any tips welcome...

Why not download the trial / demo and check out some of the tutorials?

Obviously that won't give you a taste of any hardware acceleration that
might happen with a HW card, but you can look at everything else on your list.

The download is on it's way as I write.
Just wanted to see any tips ahead as I don't have much time to test.

Try here:
http://www.ediustips.com/

This site has much useful advice on changes in v4 and tips useful to a Premiere user.

Thanks very much!

this is off the subject, but your AMD X2 chip isn't 4.6ghz, it's 2.4ghz. Their naming system doesnt coincide with the speed of the chip.


Bold title :-)

I just downloaded the 30 day trial of Edius pro 3. After watching some of the tutorial videos I made a short project. And except the cheesy GUI, I must say that I'm impressed. Colorcorrection filter and Blur is realtime on my 4.6ghz AMD X2, and smooth! Neither Vegas or PPro is this "fluid".

How good does Edius handle slowmotion and does it have speedchange (not sure how you call it) like Vegas?

Edius does slow-motion pretty well in both SD and HD, and version 4 has a "time remap" function with keyframing like Vegas.

Just to add to what Kevin says.

With the Vegas velocity envelope, you can set the speed to what you like at any point in the clip. You can even stop the action or go backwards. It's a bit tricky to set exact hit points for particular speeds, but anything can be done with sufficient patience.

From what I have read on the Edius forum (I don't have V4 yet), time remap is quite a bit different. The clip duration always stays constant, so that if you slow down one section of the clip, another section will speed up to compensate. It's probably an interesting effect but not always what you are looking for when ramping clip speed.

Edius slo-mo is pretty good, but sometimes you need to work at it to get the best results, i.e. to avoid flicker and judder. Vegas just seems to get it right without much effort. The penalty in Vegas of course is always that long render time after the editing is done. Edius's realtime power still amazes me, and I've been using it since V1.

Richard

Just reading Richards post, and i totally agree with what hes written.. but thought i'd add afew more details .. :)

"You can even stop the action or go backwards. It's a bit tricky to set exact hit points for particular speeds, but anything can be done with sufficient patience."

There is this factor, however with vegas, u can always tweak the video track's size to suit.. (yes u can even go down deeper than the video frame within the timeline... were talking one frame of video strewn across your screen if u want to go that deep into it... obviously u may not need this, but the option is there... then there is the "add point" which when zoomed in can be tweaked by clicking and dragging up and down, OR by "set to" where u can type in precise velosity point rampings.. this is done ON THE TIMELINE and can be looped .. ie loop the video and continue tweaking and watch and tweak teh slowmo as u see fit... velocity envelopes do not change the duration of the clip.
With Vegas, theres also the CNTRL DRAG method.. where u hold down cntrl and drag the clip to however long you want it to slow down to.. this will stretch the clip (audio included.) In the audio track, you will see a percentile mark, showing the percentage at which the clip is running... Velocity envelopes dont affect audio whatsoever.. only video.. dragging affects the whole clip as a whole..
then there is the geeky "i know how fast i want this to run" slow mo.. right click on the clip and set the playback rate to whatever number u want... this, like the Velo envelope, wont affect teh duration of the clip.
All these can be done in realtime... and previewed in realtime.. more then likely also rendered in realtime if you have HT PC)

"From what I have read on the Edius forum (I don't have V4 yet), time remap is quite a bit different. The clip duration always stays constant, so that if you slow down one section of the clip, another section will speed up to compensate. It's probably an interesting effect but not always what you are looking for when ramping clip speed."

((This is how Liquid 6/7 works... time remapping has its uses, however in most cases, u must allocate whether u want the clip duration to be affected by the ramping (ie strecthed), or whether u want the duration of the clip to remain unaffected.. i dont knwo how edius 4 manages this element, but i know Liquid gives u an option.. it also allows u to interpolate or blend... independantly to the projects settings... ))

"Edius slo-mo is pretty good, but sometimes you need to work at it to get the best results, i.e. to avoid flicker and judder. Vegas just seems to get it right without much effort. "

((this is due to the interpolation engine within vegas. It really is quite powerful... couple that with the supersampling modes, and the results you get will be the best within this line/range of NLE's. Work with progressive scan, and you WILL FREAK when u see the results.. ))

"The penalty in Vegas of course is always that long render time after the editing is done. Edius's realtime power still amazes me, and I've been using it since V1."

((Edius is indeed fast and powerful and the downside to this however, is the fact that your using canopus codec'd fiiles... and the output again is canopus..
Now dont get me wrong, canopus codecs are prolly some of the cleanest ive ever seen, however their utlisation in other applications just doesnt cut it for multi program editing..
Some programs just wont accept a file created in Edius, because of the proprietary codec... I dont know much about 4... but more than likely, canopus have stuck to their guns in this regard.. so if u intend on using canopus with other applications be aware you may have some issues...

as for vegas rendering, i usually crank out at faster than realtime when im hammering 4 to 5 filters in a chain with track motions and a 1.85.1 or 16:9 overlay (ie i insert black bars) so the argument about rendering realy isnt all that much of an issue anymore unless ur doing multiple HD composites using filters.. or if your using Targa sequences, uncompressed video or QT..
Then its weakness starts to show.. Edius however CAN handle about 4 streams of HD without much fuss.. it also handles DVCProHD pretty well too... V7 is also promising to improve performance... that remains to be seen however

in the end however, i would strongly recomend you test as much as u can... then decide which NLE works for you

Hi Peter. What sort of PC hardware are you using to get this level of rendering performance? Mine is a couple of years old, it's a P4 3.2GHz, and the rendering time is nowhere near what you are getting.

My stuff is all DV based, and most of it involves 4 layers of Vegas generated text media on top of the single video track. I don't use many transitions on the video, but I usually have some colour correction or curves going on. The text events have linear wipe transitions quite frequently. Render time for all this lot is around 40 minutes for a 5 minute timeline. If I had an efficient way to create the text in Edius (my text layout and formatting needs are quite specific and the quick titler doesn't match it well) then I could play back the timeline in realtime and render in realtime or less.

If I could get realtime renders in Vegas by means of a PC upgrade I would be very very happy, so please let me know your setup details. Thanks.

Richard

well im only running a lowly 3.0 with 1g corsair ram, however all my files are independant (master source drive anda "render to" drive I also havea raid setup for those HDV projects which need faster acecss..
but it seems your biggest issue here is the fact that your runnign 4 titile tracks...
I get simialr results with slideshows...
I throw down a QT backreoung from digital juice or i create uncompressed backgrounds using Particle Illusion, then i have my photos sually 2 tracks (both running cookie cutters and filters) then tehres the 1.85.1 overlay (for 16:0 source) or teh 16:9 overlay for 4:3 source
Bout 4 to 5 tracks..
this takes about 20 odd minutes

is there a way u can create the titles and export them as uncompressd avi with transparency? or maybe cineform? <it works with SD stuff> then overlay that one video file with yoru titles (instead of 4 layers of realtime generated media)
This would speed up the final render, but its a little fiddler during the edit stage..
I guess it depends on ur system.. but no doubt any system running realtime generated media will bog down when ur looking at 4 tracks..
even if you render out using one video track, then reimport that new render, add your next title track.. render... then add ur next one.. your output should still be faster as each layer shoudlnt take more than realtime to embed with then original stream <one video track, one title track>.. this way, your project shouldnt take mroe than 20 minutes to render either way... and if u render to cineform, it will retian its integrity..mostly... uncompressed is ideal, but it does take up alot of storage and time.. but not 40 minutes...

As were talking about edius in this thread.. edius has a function for this called "render and replace" where u can render out a section and replace it on the timeline automatically.. closest thing vegas as to that is render to new track.. but this is far more accurate as to how Edius render replace works..

Hi Peter. I suppose I could try prerendering just the titles and see how long it takes. Can't split them and render them separately because they are all linked and synchronised, but I could do the whole lot together if it improves the overall render time.

Wouldn't really affect the editing stage because I can just work as at present and then render with the video track muted. Thanks for the advice.

Richard

So the question is- How good does Edius handle slowmotion and does it have speedchange (not sure how you call it) like Vegas?

Any tips welcome...

Edius 4.0 now has a special slo-mo ramping effect feature. Download the available demo of 4.0 and try it out.
Also, if you shoot your weddings with mulitiple cameras, the nedw 4.0 version has a pretty slick multi-camera editing feature now.

I'm considering switching from Vegas to Edius Broadcast when I get a Panasonic HVX-200 because the latter has better support for P2 and DVCPRO-HD. I have lots of archived DV captured by Vegas as .avi files. Will Edius accept these directly or is some conversion needed, or will I need to recapture from the source tapes ?

I'm considering switching from Vegas to Edius Broadcast when I get a Panasonic HVX-200 because the latter has better support for P2 and DVCPRO-HD. I have lots of archived DV captured by Vegas as .avi files. Will Edius accept these directly or is some conversion needed, or will I need to recapture from the source tapes ?

Mark: you'll probably need to convert your Vegas DV files to Canopus DV format using Procoder Express. No need to recapture, just launch the program and tell it which file(s) to convert.

Mark: you'll probably need to convert your Vegas DV files to Canopus DV format using Procoder Express. No need to recapture, just launch the program and tell it which file(s) to convert.

Hi Kevin. I don't know about Edius Broadcast, but with Edius Pro you don't need to convert the Vegas-captured files, they will play in realtime same as Canopus DV files. Going the other way is not so good though, Vegas always wants to recompress Canopus DV files when displaying on an external monitor.

Richard

I wish to addd my personal thoughts on Edius.

We have been shooting underwater with the FX1 and then using Cineforms Aspect HD, 3 or 4 + for Premiere Pro 1.5 & 2 versions.

Had a demo copy of Edius 3 from a while back that we installed just last week to try out with the underwater material.

Well after much testing on the same clips we have now dumped Premiere Pro and Aspect HD as the Canopus HQ codec gives us better results on the dirty underwater footage tests. Not only that but our 3 GIG pc can just keep up in converting to the Canopus HQ codec in realtime so no waiting for the conversion like with Aspect HD.

Once we then start editing in Edius 3, we were blown away by how powerfull it's realtime capacity is editing the 1440/1080. It's just like normal DV, and that slow mo and colour correction is very good.

From lots and lots of underwater dirty test we also found the Aspect HD m2t encoder is not as good as Main Concpt Pro m2t encoder , but Main Concept Pro encoder has a problem on the fades, causing tiny flickers/jumps.

Edius 3 m2t encoding is very good and beats both of the others. Now I must add that using bright uptop material Aspect HD is fine but it really shows in dirty underwater footage.

The realtime effects and stuff you can do on a normal 3 GIG PC with 1440/1080 material is simply amazing due to that beatuifull Canopus HQ codec.

With Title Motion and Heroglyph it's even better and we should have our NVIDIA Quadro FX 560 card any day for twin screens and realtime TV output.

It's a strange program at first to use but give it some time as Im hooked now.

Paul Wags
www.hdvunderwater.com

Thanks Paul -- perhaps I should fire up a popularity poll and let everyone vote whether or not to have an Edius board here. There are plenty of other Canopus resources out on the net, but if y'all want one here, who am I to refuse.

Hi Chris
Well I suppose the Edius mob hang out on the Canopus forum, but there could be room for a new section. Maybe wait abit till more people are usings Edius.

I sit here editing this 1440/1080 Canopus HQ codec stuff and just cannot believe what I am geting out of the program using just a normal 3 GIG pc.

Thanks Paul -- it's too late, I've already opened the poll:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=75873

no doubt edius grunt is a work of sheer coding genius.. with thes eresolutions AND colour spaces, the fact that the bugger can pump out multiple tracks in realtime through SW is pretty fuggin amazing..
pity the GUI sux so bad..