Recommended deck: The new Firestore's that retain HDV timecode.

Instead of spending money on an HDV deck, shoot straight to hard disk and use the tapes merely as a safety backup. You could possibly outfit all 3 cameras with hard disk units for a little more than the price of the Sony HDV deck.

As far as I know there are no dedicated VTR's that are compatible with the XLH1's 24F mode. This is a real problem if you plan to shoot with this mode.

Why worry about a deck at all when you could just plug in your hard drives and edit?

Another thing to consider: HDV doesn't work exactly like DV. There's no scrubbing/monitoring the timeline through firewire. This means you need an HD card like the Kona, Blackmagic Extreme or Xena to have full-time HD monitoring. I have the Kona and it works well.

Just download m2t's rather than capture from tape. You can capture from an H1 if you have to recapture from tape later on.

See http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/canon/hv10overview.php

Also supports four-channel audio playback.

That looks great Chris! Any info on when it will be available? This could potentially be a good "B" camera for events too, where you would likely be shooting in 60i anyway. Any links to this on Canon's site or anything?

Oops, I left that part out... ships in September.

More info in our new Canon HV10 forum. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=139

One cool feature that this has is the ability to convert your HD footage on the fly to letterboxed SD for viewing on a non HD TV. I personally find this a big plus because I often shoot out on the field and the only equipment to view the quick takes on ar 4x3 SD tvs.

JUst thought I'd point this out.

Chris, you may have left out one thing from the potential H1 wish list at the end of the article (see below), true 24P (especially as Canon are signing up to it.)

While I'm dreaming, 422 recording to tape and Dual SDI out for those times when you want true 444 capture.

I have other dreams too but best not mentioned here ;^)


"Imagine a possible application of this CMOS sensor in the near future. What if Canon were to produce a successor to their flagship XL H1 with three of these CMOS chips at its core? Give it embedded audio and Time Code with uncompressed High Definition video in its SDI output jack, an XL-mount lens equipped with Instant AF, and custom function and display settings, and you'd have quite an HDV camcorder."

Wait a minute? This thing doesn't have a professional jack pack? What a rip-off!!!!


:)

Well, wont make much of a Deck without a Component or HDMI out... How am I supposed to use my HD monitor :O

;)

Seriously....this thing has to have component out on it....right? At this price point enthusiasts with HDTV's are going to buy these and want to play it right on there HDTV from the camera. Canon has to have included this...even though I can't actually find documentation of it.......

Component out... see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=521674&postcount=2

Chris,

So the HV10 cannot record frame mode but will playback24F/ 30F Frame mode? It seems the only reason for this then is so Canon customers that have purchased the H1 and XH will have an inexpensive playback deck. Canon is taking care of us after all.

This is NOW AVAILABLE!!! Everyone feel that this would make a good playback deck?

All opinions welcome...

I just bought an XLH1 and this will be a great compliment to that.

Thanks guys.

Funny, that. I've just decided the XL H1 will go nicely with my HV10E. :)

B&H has it for $1099. Pretty good price for a HDV deck that can also shoot "B" roll.

Is there any advantage of having a CMOS chip vs. a CCD chip?

Cheers,
D

My Sony deck died this morning - sending it off for repairs, but thought I'd run down to Circuit City and get an HV10 as a backup - and to allow 24f playback as well...

But I though I better get some feedback first.. From reading the specs I'm guessing that it doesn't support timecode... As a result Log & Capture in FCP is not possible? requiring Capture Now only?

Is anyone here using one?

I'm curious about this too.

Me too... One of us may have to be first.

I am using the HV10 as a deck. It works quite well.

I logged and captured on my Intel iMac in FCP5.1.2. It sometimes hiccuped on the timecode, but from what I have read, HDV is like that.

Capture now works fine as well.

never had sony hdv hiccup, see post "edius batchind error"

never had sony hdv hiccup, see post "edius batchind error"
I probably should have been clearer on 'hiccup'.

If I logged something in FCP that was only a few frames apart from another log entry, I had difficulties with this twice. I easily fixed this by keeping a second or more between logged entries.

I have read that it has something to do with the HDV codec. Easy work around and not really an issue for me.

Cody: It's good to hear that that little thing actually works... I've had $4000 decks in the past that didn't work well with TC...

i've found it works fine capturing tapes shot with an FX-1. i believe it was intentionally designed to be used as a capture device for 24F modes on the H1/A1/G1, so it is actually marketed by canon as a substitute for a deck. so it had better work!

Anyone having any issues with 24F once editing? Are most of you using Cineform or standard FCP support. Anyone using premiere pro 2.0? How are you guys displaying your 24F files? Can't go back to tape, so can you nest it within a 60i timeline for tape distriubtion?

I am looking for a deck to take the wear and tear off my XLH1 when capturing its HDV footage. Is it correct that decks like the Sony HVR-M15 HDV Recorder
will only play interlaced HDV footage and not footage recorded in frame mode. If so are there any decks that will play Canon's frame mode?

I am looking for the least expensive deck that will do the job

Canon doesn't make decks. Although standard 60i HDV will work in any HDV deck, none of the frame modes will. Your best bet as an inexpensive deck that can read the F modes is the Canon HV10, which you can find now for around $600.

John,

Michael is perfectly right, no decks for the Canon XLH1, or the other Canon HD cameras, because of the 30f and 24f modes. This is the main reason I bought the Canon HV20, to use it as a deck.

But, it doubles as a great B-cam too and is great to take with you everywhere you go! The picture is gorgeous too!

Mike

Does the HV-30 work the same as the HV-10/HV-20? In other words, can I use it as a playback deck for my Canon XL-H1?

Of course. You would have already read about it here if there had been some kind of change. However there is no difference between the HV10, HV20 and HV30 in this regard. All will play back Canon Frame mode video shot on an XL or XH camera. See the first post in this thread.

Thanks Chris.

I did not read the first post. I read the last few pages of this thread and I saw no mention of the HV-30, only the HV-20. Not that I expected any changes, but I wanted to be sure. Anyway, thanks again.

I'm renting three Canon XL-H1 cameras to film a live disco concert here in Miami this Saturday the 13th 2008 and edit at a later date. I'm filming this event in HD at 29.97.

For post-production will it be best to use the H1 camera as a deck? or should I use any other external hardware? like a VTR deck or the AJA io HD hardware since it has SD-SDI and HD-SDI i/o ? also quick question with the AJA IO HD device I wont need one of their KONA cards right on my G5 Powermac?

another quick question: What is a better choice to shoot this live concert in 29.97 or 59.94i ?

marlon,
I'm in Pembroke Pines and own an H1 and an A1, with matching presets. I have lots of experience shooting with the canons, and also have another shooter if you needed. In addition, I have a steadycam style rig, a jib, and 35mm adapter.
get in touch if you'd like me to work with you on the sghoot.
Bruce S. yarock
Yarock Video & Photography (http://www.yarock.com)
yarock at a o l dot com

So does anyone know of an affordable deck that i can buy to transfer footage shot in 1080/24p or and of course 30 going into final cut pro. Or perhaps is it easier to find one to go into avid media composer? I have been using my camera thus far and need 2 stop doing that. I only have around 2000. Please help!

Get a used HV20.

Way to go.


CS

So by transferring the footage through another camera, would I lose any picture quality shot on my xl-h1a? Also Sony Vegas? I prefer to use either Final Cut, Avid media composer, or Adobe Premiere, but for the most part I am the best with Final Cut, okay with avid and still learning Premiere Pro. Your method sounds to good to be true. I looked up the price and the camera is cheaper than any deck I have seen. Again what is the catch?

Thanks for your help

RL

there is no catch.

It's a tape deck, which just by sheer coincidence, has a lens and other stuff attached - hey, it's free, don't complain.

You can't lose quality as it's all digital from start to finish.

It will work wth any software that can handle Canon's 24f, Avid rings alarm bells but not sure why.

Check out the other 7,475 posts asking exactly the same question and have got the same reply.

It works.


CS

The catch about the camcorder is that it has fiddly little buttons & a less robust tape transport than a proper tape deck plus it cannot be mounted into a rack or even sat firmly down onto the desktop without rolling around.

The catch about a tape deck is that one does not exist that can handle Canon's 24F pseudo-24p recording mode.

I have been weighing up the pros & cons of a dedicated deck versus HV20/30 & the above points certainly don't rule out using a camcorder & if you are shooting 24F it's a lot better than wearing out an XH-A1 but to be honest it's not ideal.

Cheers

Nigel Barker

I have my HV20 on a tripod next to my workstation. The only time I touch it is to put in the tape otherwise I simply control it from HDVSplit.

I use the HV20 a lot more than the XHA1 since the XHA1 is used only for paid jobs. The HV20 is used as a deck, b-roll to the XHA1, personal projects, and the family travel camera. I've taken it to Death Valley and as far as Europe. It's a work horse and greatly undervalued in the used market.

I can count with my fingers how many drop outs I've encountered with my HV20 used with low end Sony tapes. I was at a camera store the other day and overheard the salesman telling the customer that they "had" to buy highend Sony HDV tapes for this camera.

If by chance it dies on me, it is cheap enough to buy another one used.

The catch about the camcorder is that it has fiddly little buttons & a less robust tape transport than a proper tape deck plus it cannot be mounted into a rack or even sat firmly down onto the desktop without rolling around.

The catch about a tape deck is that one does not exist that can handle Canon's 24F pseudo-24p recording mode.

I have been weighing up the pros & cons of a dedicated deck versus HV20/30 & the above points certainly don't rule out using a camcorder & if you are shooting 24F it's a lot better than wearing out an XH-A1 but to be honest it's not ideal.

Cheers

Nigel Barker

Nigel,
You want to check the latest greatest decks HDV decks from Sony as they have been supporting more of Canon's formats than they did formally. See the Sony HVR-M25A Deck. Not an inexpensive solution

... Canon's 24f, Avid rings alarm bells but not sure whyGood news on that, the 3.5 release of Avid Media Composer (http://www.avid.com/products/Media-Composer-Software/features.asp) finally supports Canon's 24F format.

Nigel,
You want to check the latest greatest decks HDV decks from Sony as they have been supporting more of Canon's formats than they did formally. See the Sony HVR-M25A Deck. Not an inexpensive solutionThanks for that tip. Evidently Sony have finally released a tape deck that handles all possible HDV formats whether 24F/24P/25F etc. If money were no object I am sure that it would have a place in my set up but unfortunately the price is just a touch too rich for me even for the convenience of using a deck rather than a camcorder for capturing.

Thanks for that tip. Evidently Sony have finally released a tape deck that handles all possible HDV formats whether 24F/24P/25F etc. If money were no object I am sure that it would have a place in my set up but unfortunately the price is just a touch too rich for me even for the convenience of using a deck rather than a camcorder for capturing.


So great I need one. What is it? I searched high and low and I read nothing about the Sony HVR-M25AP being compatible with the Canon 24/f and 30/f. So I would definitely appreciate the knowledge of the deck supportive of Canon. No matter what the cost. I know enough people with canon's who would pay small fees just to not have to transfer on another canon camera or their own for those frame rates. Thanks for the help and can't wait to see the deck I need.

Randy Larioz
randylarioz@yahoo.com

So great I need one. What is it? It's the Sony HVR-M35.

However it is a bit more expensive than using an HV10/20/30/40 as a deck.

I would like to thank everyone for your help on finding a deck. It is actually the Sony HVR-M25AU and has been out for only a couple of months. It can handle 24f 30f 60i at 1080i and many other formats. The cost at B&H is 3300. There is only one other model that can transfer the footage from your Canon but that model is 4700. I just don't see the point, personally, to use another camera to transfer footage. Heads are still being worn out. True it is a cheaper solution but for me the Sony deck will do the work for me. I already have a couple of dozen filmmakers wanting to use the deck and are willing to pay to transfer their footage. Again thank you, hopefully this deck will pay for itself over time.

Heads are still being worn out. This is a myth -- you're *not* going to "wear the heads out" by using a camcorder as a deck.

I have nothing against buying and using a VTR, but the main reason for having one isn't to save the heads on
a camcorder; it's to keep the camcorder in the field where it belongs, instead of tying it up in the editing suite.

To add to Chris's comment. In my opinion the main reason to use a deck in the editroom is the tape handling, response and control by the computer is usually much better than a camcorders. This can make a huge difference in logging and capturing footage.

Received the Sony HVR-M25AU deck today and transferred some wedding footage shot in 24f on a Canon XL-H1A. Not one single problem, knock on wood.

Good to hear -- thanks for that report, Randy!

Good evening,

listed at 3000 dollars its pretty steep, but it does a lot of great things!! however for a few hundred more you can get an xha1 and ue it and also have a second high quality camera if you do not already!!

I would love one, but i think the xha1 is the option for me!!