I am probably after the unattainable, as I want to replicate the proper full size camera operating experience with my z1. i have a new cavision one which is rod mounted so it sits a little to the left of the pad meaning I dont cock my head too much to the right to see into the viewfinder. It has one forward grip.

Obviously i still have huge balance issue with front heaviness. Nobody has really made that perfect shoulder mount...unless I am missing something!

has anyone tried the counterbalanced pag one?

Just love the look of that new JVC HD250, just wish it could record in 1080i (as opposed to just live feed) too so it could be used in conjunction with the sony HDV cameras. Lovely shoulder mounted position that!

There is one possibility, expensive but would probably work. I want to use the viewfinder not the LCD when shoulder mounted and that's where the problem lies, the position is wrong for shoulder mounts. Using a standard cavision shoulder pad in junction with this Austrian company's adaptor for using a broadcast tube viewfinder. Taking the composite out and mounting it on the hot shoe...there idea is to use it with 35mm adaptor and they have instructions as to how to modify it to flip the image, but you could just it normally for basic z1 functionality...

I am probably after the unattainable

Unfortunately I think you are ;-)

As you note, the balance will always be wrong, and your desire to use the viewfinder instead of the LCD makes it worse. You're fighting the design on the camera it seems to me.

I have a Video Innovators shoulder rest, and it helps some. I use the LCD as a viewfinder and shift the camera as far back as possible on the mount. But it is still front-heavy, especially if I use the wide angle lens. It also rocks from side to side very easily, which I think is an even bigger problem.

I have a Video Innovators shoulder rest, and it helps some. I use the LCD as a viewfinder and shift the camera as far back as possible on the mount. But it is still front-heavy, especially if I use the wide angle lens. It also rocks from side to side very easily, which I think is an even bigger problem.


Would the Spiderbrace be a step in the right direction?

What ever has happened to the Marzpak camera suspension?

Hello Phil,

Check out the DV Rig Pro. It totally solved the issues you're describing. Shot with a DSR 300 for years (over the shoulder camera) and found this to be the missing link for the Z1 - problem solved.

http://www.dvtec.tv/

Cheers,

George

Would the Spiderbrace be a step in the right direction?

See the discussion here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57910

if you mean the pag orbiter, i hired one from east sussex based www.hireacamera.com and (bear in mind i have no experience of alternatives) found it quickly uncomfortable..the counterbalance is just more weight and not central so makes sense its unpleasant. The telescoping front support rod was semi-effective but all in all it added up to a load of faff for limited gain.

(I just tried their web addy and it wasnt working, but i suspect its temporary)

http://www.zacuto.com if price is no worry. Notice the picture at the far left...rods with battery counterweight hanging out the back.

have ordered a dvrig pro. looks good, sounds good. The Zacuto system looks amazing, looks like something for a drama more than documentary type stuff!

Zacuto really knows how to pimp out a package. I saw 3 of their setups in Chicago, and the stuff is very well made. It's not exactly guerrilla video style equipment. That DVRigpro looks pretty good too. It appears you can use it without the rod to the belt arrangement if you want to, ie., as a normal shoulder mount; is that right? Also, how much is it?

it's $650 but it's worth asking if they have any ex demo units. I have just bought one for a $200 discount. It's still a lot of cash, but it looks like it will actually truly work, unlike my current cavision set up which is more front heavy than the late Lolo Ferrari (google her!)

Will post my findings soon. Wish i had it now, am supposed to be filming a gig with a band on Friday night in London handheld...could really do with it!

I found this to be the best so far, it takes all the weight of the hand and shoulder and at the same time it is very steady and versatile with a bogen swivel head. You can use it with viewfinder or LCD.
http://www.adorama.com/LHGP100.html

...All i have to say is....sell it! Give it away! Burn It! But what ever you do...dont se it. the SP-100 is a very bad idea.

Hey Phil,

Don't forget to get back to us after your maiden voyage - let us know what your comments are. I suspect you're going to totally pleased.

Carry on,

George

I've been mess'n with the concept of getting the center of gravity behind the hand grip.... so the cam won't be so front heavy like it is with the sony shoulder support..... any ideas?

I have. I shot an entire wedding with it the other day.

Probably Phil's not more important issue when he opened this thread, but let me rob a little of it to go in another direction with a shoulder mount. Will you? :)

As I am buying a lot of stuff now (camera, WA adapter, filters, etc.), if I need anything else I have to limit my expense.

But a shoulder mount is not a luxury but a necessity. And the Spiderbrace is very affordable.

Only one problem: you can't disassemble it, so it's large to carry around, particularly on flight trips. They are working on a collapsible version, and I got confirmation on that from SB themselves. But I can't find out more, even if I repeatedly asked them about it. Has anyone seen any photo or have any data about that version?

collapsable is very important...current biggest problem with spider brace. The dvrig pro does fold down very nicely from what I see.

I won't get mine for a few days probably, could really do with it tomorrow. shooting a live gig at the Astoria in London, would come in very handy...

collapsable is very important...current biggest problem with spider brace. The dvrig pro does fold down very nicely from what I see.


DVDRigPro is too expensive for me now. Until I get what I can afford, I will keep doing the moving shots in a different way.

Even I know it's not the same application, one thing I learnt to do is use my Manfrotto monopod on many manners:

1) Poor man tripod: my version has three foldable small legs at the base, which lets you use it as a tripod in fixed positions. No pans though.

2) Poor man steadicam: as it is it can successfully be used as a simple hand held system; a small weight at the base might make it better.

3) Poor man crane: if you telescope it, you can raise it and move it quite smoothly, particularly if you are in wide angle.

All above was used on a shoot I did some weeks ago with a Z1. It worked great. For 2 and 3 it would be great having a light LCD screen that you can move more freely than the camera screen.

Ok..got my DVrig pro this morning.

Well worth the money. It truly solves all my problems and is very comfortable to use.

Shot a concert on Friday night with my z1 and cavision shoulder mount. Am still in agony!! Wish I had my DV Rig pro then...only downside is the belt and spring rod design (essential i hasten to add to the design) makes taking the camera on and off very quickly not that easy.

Now can I make it work with my M2 adaptor. Might be a bit too much I think, with the rods etc... (perhaps with more weights on the back)

Greetings Phil,

Delighted to hear all went well on your first effort with the DV Pro Rig. I too was initially somewhat awkward at first with taking the camera/rig on/off but now it's second nature - very slight loss of time - practice makes perfect. Another item that made a HUGH difference for me was purchasing a lanc controller - I originally just purchased the rig - two shoots later I purchased a Manfrotto.

The master plan calls for a Chroziel matte box probably on Zacuto rails. So like yourself, I'll most likely need an additional weight.

Drop Danny an email at: http://www.dvtec.tv/ - ask him on the specifics of what you what to accomplish with your gear - he'll fill in the missing blanks.

Remember the first guy to get the system up to 30 pounds wins!!

Cheers,

George

I picked up a Hoodman for my Z1's LCD screen. It then occured to me that the right magnifying glass could move this to being a shoulderable rig. I tried a cheap magifier and it was indeed possible to view the screen at close range. But the right hand position was still uncomfortable. I think to go the whole way it would need a way of mounting the magifier, and eye cub, a shoulder pad, and an extension with remote control of start/stop, zoom, and focus.

It is definitely feasible, so all that's necessary is for a company like Manfrotto to rig it up.

after using the dvrigpro for a while. it is very good. still a pain for taking on and off quickly but so much less back strain than the other ones i have used. cavision one used for just 4 hours gave me back ache for a week!!

Today I found a company I didn't know of that makes several products that might be interesting for location shooting.

One of them is a simple and cheap shoulder mount:

http://www.fotodiox.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=4128

But they also make a practical monopod with a ball head:

http://www.fotodiox.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=4128

And a very affordable kinoflo-style light head:

http://www.fotodiox.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=71&products_id=4124

This seems like a company to keep our eyes on!


Carlos

I am working on a way to accomplish this with the Z1. Having that little monitor up front is what made me hopefull.

Step 1 was to get a Hoodman, a type of shade that attached to the Z1 or FX1 monitor. I was playing around with a magnifying glass and found that I could use it to put my eye fairly close to the monitor. In combo with the hood, it acts like a traditional viewfinder on a shoulder cam.

My next steps are to (1) gin up a way of mounting the magnifier to the Hoodman, (2) obtaining some type of handle which would place my right hand forward (3) obtain a shoulder rest, such as what Sony sells, (4) obtain a remote zoom/focus/start button like that sold by Bogen, for mounting on a handle. I think that combo would be lighter and easier that some of the complicated rigs.

I am working on a way to accomplish this with the Z1. Having that little monitor up front is what made me hopefull.

Step 1 was to get a Hoodman, a type of shade that attached to the Z1 or FX1 monitor. I was playing around with a magnifying glass and found that I could use it to put my eye fairly close to the monitor. In combo with the hood, it acts like a traditional viewfinder on a shoulder cam.

My next steps are to (1) gin up a way of mounting the magnifier to the Hoodman, (2) obtaining some type of handle which would place my right hand forward (3) obtain a shoulder rest, such as what Sony sells, (4) obtain a remote zoom/focus/start button like that sold by Bogen, for mounting on a handle. I think that combo would be lighter and easier that some of the complicated rigs.

I did something like this with a collapsable magnifier off a medium format camera I own. The image is not really that satisfactory, in my opinion, but it will work in a pinch.

What would be nice is to have the ability dis mount the regular view finder and move it forward on the camera. There was a discussion of that possibility in a thread several months back.

Mark: Here is a photo of prototype I was working on with a 35mm adapter. Note the old 2 and 1/4 camera view finder magnifier mounted on the LCD.

Another shoulder mount that looks very interesting and affordable.

http://www.camerashop.in/multipurpose-shoulder-support-camera-stabilizer-came-p-835.html

Perhaps lacking the the sort of "mini-tripod" aptitude of the Spider Brace, but at least it can fold away in less space.

Anyone been to Spiderbraces site lately? looks like the collapsable version is out - http://spiderbrace.com/

There also a quick video here - http://spiderbrace.com/collapsable.html

Its not as collapsable as i think some of us would of liked it to be but its definately a better rig now.

Might be about time i bought one i think.

Joe

Anyone been to Spiderbraces site lately? looks like the collapsable version is out - http://spiderbrace.com/

There also a quick video here - http://spiderbrace.com/collapsable.html

Its not as collapsable as i think some of us would of liked it to be but its definately a better rig now.

Might be about time i bought one i think.


The front piece, after collapsing, is still too large to put into a bag, which would be the way to do it.

I wonder why don't they allow the two front arms to get together. When folded together it would look like their Mini-Rig, but giving the option of opening up the arms again for normal use.

Is that so difficult to achieve?

Yes it is a shame the front piece doesn't come apart either..

Today I got to know this intriguing accessory from Anton Bauer:

http://www.antonbauer.com/egripz.htm

Cost is reasonable: $120. But it's still costlier than the Spyder Brace.

A good thing about is that you can use it on your detachable tripod plate and go hand-holding quite quick.

Has anyone tried it?


Carlos

Has anyone tried it?

Ah, so this is the thing I played with at the UK IoV show (whilst waiting for a purchase to go through).

I'm a Z1/FigRig devotee, but they had one of these attached to a Sony A1. It seems to REALLY help tiddler cameras. You can flex the 'wing' handles to your preferred position, and the temptation is to start flinging the camera around subjects.

And therein lies the rub - it's a FigRig style stabiliser for handycams. It simply makes teeny weeny cameras big enough to hold, with scope to put a LANC controller on it somewhere. It won't allow you to do steadicam shots, it doesn't replace a tripod, but it will help the OIS to make handheld shots watchable.

Great for little cameras, not right for bigger cams (PD150/V1 and up).

BTW, I've got directors ASKING me to bring my FigRig, but the 'restless gaze' that such devices can create is only a current fashion in corporates. Maybe the next big thing will make these kind of shots (and the devices to create them) too 'yesterday'.

If only we could get a Z1 and an F350 on a really romantic date, wait 9 months or so, and look out for a sort of HDV VX9000...

Hi

I've got the Cavision support for my Z1 and find it great for steady shoulder type shots..far better than simply hand holding. It doesn't aleviate the front heavy nature of the camera, especially with matte box and filters, but it makes a huge difference. It is easier to use if you shoot using the LCD as your viewfinder though!

However, I think Matt hit the nail on the head... we all find a use for some kind of support for the Z1...Something along the lines of a HDV DSR250 in the same basic price bracket as the Z1 would be my preference.

I can't afford nor justify an XDcam...so until then.. !!!!

cheers
Gareth