Hello all

Could you please tell me what you think of, know about, or your experience with this shotgun mic:

http://www.nrgresearch.com/sa568.htm

It's a Schriber SA-568 Dual Mode shotgun mic.

It has everything I need/ want. However, I don't know if it's compatible with my GL2 in terms of output impedance and all those other little numbers that I am clueless about.

I have the opportunity to land one for about $100. Is it worth it.

Thanks!
Andrew

Per the specifications it should work ok. Have not seen any posts from users though.

Thanks for the reply Don!!

--Andrew

According to my research, a good impedance match occurs when the input impedance of the camcorder is 10 times the output impedance of the microphone.

The input impedance of the GL2 is 5600 ohms.

The SA-568 has an output impedance of 500 ohms when used with the cardoid setting, so that's a good match. When used with the hypercardoid setting, the output impedance is 1600 ohms. It will work, but it is not as good a match.

I've just ordered one of these from Zotz digital. It should arrive this week and I'll try to post some comments on it next week.
Zotz says they are selling a lot of them. Not a bad kit for $135 - microphone, wind screen, mount, two cables (mini and XLR), batteries, soft case and hard case.

I am looking at getting one with my GL2 from Zotz. It looks like a much better option than the DM-50, for nearly the same coin. This also could be used off the camera or on other camera's that don't have the GL2 smart shoe, which adds to its value for me.

Is this mic similar in quality to the ME66/K6 combo?

No. It's frequency range is not as good and it weighs more. But, it is also substantially cheaper. I'd have gone with the ME66 if I could see the budget for it on the horizon.....

Since I needed some better sound, and couldn't see getting an ME66 this year then the Schriber looked like a reasonable compromise. Only time will tell.

Great. Thanks for the input. How much heavyer is it? Also, I am worried that I will need a mic pre. with my GL2 and MA-300. I have bought 2 mics and they are BOTH about as good as a paper weight without the preamp. I would rather have a good mic work so I do not have to carry 1 more thing.

Any ideas?

You could talk to Tom over at Zotz Digital to see what he has to say. Otherwise, I'll be getting mine on Friday and should get out for at least a little while to test it over the weekend.

It all depends, I think, on what you are trying to record.

I will be recording Weddings, Bar Mitzvah's and other events. Have a MDA walk / run in Aug.

This is what I would recommend.

Low: Audio Technica 815b and 835b (like $210-240?)

Mid: Sennheiser K6 and ME-67 (long reach) or ME-66 (Medum) ($440?)

High: Sennheiser 416 (mono) 418 (Stereo) ($1K+ but sound GOOD)

RollsRoyce: Neumann USM 69i (Two independent capsules each with
its own pattern switch. Sounds almost like it did.) ($3300)

***No promises on the accuracy of the price quotes. Note: You will still need
an XLR adapter for camcorder input, and maybe even one that provides
phantom power to make some of these mics work :)

I think that the best bet for me will be the ME66 / K6. No phantom pwr needed, good sound.

I just bought the SA-568, and it is a great buy. However I have a couple of concerns: first, it is a little too heavy. Second, it does not have a nice shock mount, so any camera handling is easily picked up by the sensitive mic. Also, at the hypercardoid setting, I hear some very audible hissing. This I assume is due to the unmatched impedance (I don't know much about this).

My main solution is to first get a Beachtek SLR adapter. Secondly, I am am actually going to exchange this mic for the slightly pricier ($220) Azden SGM-2X. This mic is a lot lighter, a little longer, and it has a nice shock mount. I will need an SLR cable though. I know people on this post rave about the ME-66, but I am not yet ready to spend that amount of money. I need to save some for a light. I also have the Li-10, which is the Canon 10W light, and it is really bright. But I am thinking of getting a more professional light, the Pag C-6 kit.

I hoped to have comments by the end of this weekend. Zotz did a good job of getting the microphone out the door but UPS put it on the truck and forgot about it. So, I won't have it for the long weekend :( and don't know when I'll get to try it out now. I'm especially concerned about the hiss issue mentioned above.


UPS - When you really want to get it sometime but we won't say for certain when.

Hey Jeff,

I have been thinking about buying the SA-568. Did you get yours yet? How well does it work (if you got it)? What type of video work do you do?

Thanks,

Al

I haven't received it yet. UPS has apparently lost it (NEVER AGAIN!) but I haven't been able to do anything else about getting it replaced because of the holidays.

I'm hoping to get it this week and try it out next weekend. I'll be using it primarily for nature sounds both directly as as ambient background for videos. Possibly for the rare interview.

The AT mics (835 & 815) have a somewhat lower output than the ME66,

Well, I recieved my Azden SGM-2X shotgun mic & Beachtek SLR adapter. I think this is a higher quality mic than the SA-568. The hissing (white noise) I heard on the SA-568 is virtually non-existent on the SGM-2X. The shock mount on the SGM-2X also seems dissipate almost all of camera handling noise. The mic is lighter but is longer than the SA-568.
As far as the XLR adapter, this actually seems to decrease the signal strength slightly as opposed to using an SLR-mini plug cable directly to the camcorder. But I assume the advantages are when using more than one mic at a time. I also does a nice job of converting the mono signal coming out of the shotgun mics into a stereo signal. Although I also did this when using the SLR-mini plug cable by buying a $4 attachment at Radio Shack.

I will use this mic at a wedding ceremony on Sunday, so I can post more then.

Jeff,
I just ordered a SA-568 from Tom at Zotz. He said he doesn't recommend UPS for those anymore. I asked him if it had anything to do with Jeff Price and he was blown away. I think he thinks I can read his mind now. I had a good laugh. I hope it's a good mic, Brian seems to think it is.

My first impressions, based on VERY limited use are -

1) The mount is not adequate and the microphone will require some sort of isolation from the camera. Mine picks up a nasty hum. I don't know whether a simple isolator will do it or a shock mount is needed.

Otherwise it seems like a very sturdy microphone.

More on the Schriber on the GL2 -

There is a definite annoying hiss when the microphone is on the tele (hypercardiod) setting. The hiss is present regardless of gain level (but increasing in volume as gain is turned up). It is present on and off the camera and outdoors and indoors. The hiss is not apparent in the normal (cardiod) setting. The hiss overshadows most other sounds.

I still need to try the mic on a GL1 to see if the problem persists. It's possible it is a defective mic, by the way. Even on the hypercardiod setting it picks sounds up behind me quite well.

Oh well, time to consider a plan B.

Jeff,

These are the same exact things I noticed about the SA-568 mic. I am much happier with the Azden SGM-2X.

I think the hiss in Hyper mode may be due to an incompatibility of impedance, but it is unfortunate.

So, you say the Azden doesn't have any hiss on the GL2, and it's more directional?

I asked an "expert" if it was due to impedance matching problems but he said no, I still think it is. The problem is that by switching the SA568 to hypercardioid setting the mic impedance changes. The Azden achieves its hypercardioid setting by a barrell extender, its a little longer than the SA568 but I think the performance speaks for itself. I think it is just as directional as the SA568, but without the hiss.

There is the possibility that the two mics I've tried were defective (the same batch). I'm going to call NRG (the manufacturers) and see what they have to say.

You don't notice the hiss as much on tape as on the headphones, and it's still quieter than the on-board mic.

I have a call in to NRG to talk to them about the hiss in the SA-568. Their engineer is out 'til Tuesday so I won't have an answer until the middle of next week.

So, if anyone else gets their mic and tries it out on a GL2 let us know if you hear any hiss in the hypercardiod setting.

I hear hiss on both settings on a GL1 and only on the hypercardiod setting on a GL2 (through headphones).

Has anyone used the Azden SGM-1X?

Does it have a hum?

Oh yeah, does the Senni ME66/K6 Combo have a hum with the GL2?

I have an Azden SGM-X, not -1X, that makes no hum. It does pick up GL2 zoom noise when too close to the lens, but no electronic noise.

It's important to separate hum from hiss in this discussion.

The hum that I described is caused by the mount not the microphone. The mount is transmitting a vibration from the camera to the microphone. The hum on the SA-568 is not present if it is hand held or boom mounted. So, a different kind of mount will likely take care of it nicely.

The hiss on the other hand is internal to the microphone. It is present whether the mic is on or off of the camera. So, the hiss is likely not going to be easily rectified (short of a different mic).

Jeff,

I read the entire thread. Would you still recomend the Schriber over the Canon MD-50 shotgun? I am trying to decide between the two and I don't want to spend over $160.

The main problem with the Canon mic is that you can't use if off the camera. However, the upside is that it is designed for the GL2 and shouldn't have any hiss issues.

In short, I am leaning towards the Schriber, but I'd be really dissapointed if I hook it up and hear a constant hiss.

Either way I suppose you get what you pay for.

I'm reserving judgement until I talk to NRG, the manufacturers, about the hiss. Otherwise I'm back to thinking about the DM-50. Zotz is recommending the AT (815? 835?) but I'm leery over the additional length. I've thought some about the AT-55 though.

My hesitancy over the DM-50 is that I couldn't use it on my GL-1 so I'd prefer a mic that works on both.

Schriber also makes a shotgun they call the SA-600 but I don't know how its specs match up with the 568.

I don't think you'll ever get rid of the hiss in 'tele' or 'hypercardiod' mode on one of those inexpensive 'switchable' shotgun mics like the Schriber or the ATR-55. I have never seen one that didn't have it.

The least expensive shotgun mic that I have found with decent sound and quality is the Azden SGM-1X. You can pick them up for about $149. No hiss. No ridiculous 'normal' - 'tele' switch. 'Free' shock mount included in price. A pretty decent one, too.

Good luck!

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Price : I'm reserving judgement until I talk to NRG, the manufacturers, about the hiss. Otherwise I'm back to thinking about the DM-50. Zotz is recommending the AT (815? 835?) but I'm leery over the additional length. I've thought some about the AT-55 though.

My hesitancy over the DM-50 is that I couldn't use it on my GL-1 so I'd prefer a mic that works on both.

Schriber also makes a shotgun they call the SA-600 but I don't know how its specs match up with the 568. -->>>

I fully agree with Jay, I upgraded to the Azden SGM-1X and got great results at a wedding on Sunday. No hissing, crystal clear audio. I am about to ship back my Schriber SA-568.

I did experience some sound distortion at the reception when standing next to the loud speaker system, with the GL2 built in mic. I think I shoud have turned on MIC ATT....right ??..or maybe I should have kept the SGM-1X and used is as a regular cardioid without the long barrel. Will try this next time. I did play around with the manual audio and tried to lower it, but this just lowered the volume, the distortion was still present at high amplitudes.

Any suggestions here ????

Lester -

What did you hook up the Azden SGM-1X to your GL2 with? This is the mic I am about to buy.

- Ar

I used a beachtek XLR adapter...but I think you can just as easily use an XLR to mini stereo plut...I tested using the cables from the SA-568, that was the only nice thing about the Schriber, it came with cables. And the shock mount on the Azden virtually eliminates camera handling noise

By the way, I have the SGM-2X, not the SGM-1X....sorry about the misprint.

Does your current setup include a preamp (the beachtec)?

I will be using the Canon MA-300. Just want to insure that there will be NO hum and the mic will have enough power.

I don't think so...I have the Beachtek DXA-4P

So does anyone know if the Azden SGM-1X will work?

The SGM-1x and SGM-2x run on battery power, not phantom power, so that is not an issue with either mic. I can't speak to 'hum' because I've never used one with a MA-300.

What causes the hum? and under what conditions does it occur?

<<<-- Originally posted by Aaron Rosen : So does anyone know if the Azden SGM-1X will work? -->>>

If you return a Schriber because of hiss make sure you say so! I talked with the people at NRG and they say they have had no complaints about it. Many people are using it with the GL1 and GL2 and the magazine reviews have been favorable. Given that the two I've tried were both manufactured in 2002 in approximately the same time period (look on the back of the inspection card) there may be a defect but they don't think so.

The way it was explained to me, and I may get some of the details wrong, is that the hyper setting really ramps up the amplifier (equivalent to cranking up the gain?). The question NRG posed to me was whether I was loading up the microphone when I heard the hiss - in other words how much sound was being recorded that would overcome the noise. Since most of my efforts had been in quiet rooms there was little loading but I would still expect to be able to do a suitable job in those conditions as well. I agreed to try another day of field testing before returning the microphone.

Schriber apparently has some more shotgun designs in the planning stages. Another option to the SA-568, especially if you aren't ever going to use an XLR with it, is the SA-600. It doesn't have the metal case and the miniplug is hardwired to the mic but it costs quite a bit less. Otherwise they said the specs were about the same.

So, if it doesn't rain I'll try one more time to see if 'loading' the mic makes any real difference.

How far out in front the camera does the Azden SGM-2X extend in both modes? This sounds like a great mic for the money, but not if you can see it at wide angle.

The SGM-2X does not extend into the field of view in either the cardioid or hypercardioid mode. The shockmount, which is made of rubber bands, allows the barrel to be pushed back. So the mic is about the lenght of the camera with the hypercardioid barrel extension, but I can mount it in a way so it does not go into the field of view (even at full wide angle) and at the same time it does not interfere with using the eyepiece. So far I have no complaints. I am thinking of using the mic without the long barrel at my next wedding, I am hoping it does a better job with audio than the built in mic.

Jeff,

Do you have to use XLR with the Schriber SA-568, or can you plug directly to the mic jack on the camera?

Also, put in a post if you decide to send it back. I still don't know what I'm going to do, but if it is bad enough for you to return I do know it will get crossed off my list.

What good is an awesome image if the sound sucks?

The Schriber mic can be used with or without an XLR adapter, but the hiss still exists either way.

The Schriber can be used with or without an XLR. If you were never going to use the XLR adaptor then you might be able to get away with the SA-600. However,

At NRG's request I ran another set of field tests on the microphone I have. This was done in much the same conditions as I would be using it, recording bird calls and ambient sounds - which certainly has quiet places in between the sounds. I made sure that at least some of the sounds reached the optimal level according to the GL-2's onboard audio meter, to 'load the mic' as NRG put it.

Results -

GL2 microphone - no hiss or hum, really not bad compared to the GL1 at any rate.

SA-568 hooked in but turned off - no sound at all (as you would expect unless there was a camera defect).

SA-568 in normal mode, camera in auto mode - no hiss, but I really didn't think the sound was that much better than the GL2 microphone. Maybe a little better sensitivity.

SA-568 in tele mode, camera in auto mode - noticeable hiss, coming in at between 10 and 20 db on the left hand of the audio meter. You did get enhanced pick up of sounds but at a cost. Even with ambient sounds occasionally pushing max on the meter the hiss remained present.

SA-568 in tele mode, camera in manual mode with gain set to optimal for ambient noise (at least with the built-in mic). Hiss terrible.

The microphone is going back today.

I'm waffling between the Canon DM-50 (maybe not great but it is stereo) and the Azden SGM-1x to replace it. The Audio Technica and the Azden SGM-2x I feel are both too long for on camera field use (especially in rain forests, etc.). Then get a Sennheiser in a year or two.

The Azden SGM-1X sounds good, but it is a money issue for me. It can only be used with an XLR adapter, which is another 200 green backs.

I have been considering your approach to start out with the DM-50 and step up in a year or two to a nice XLR mic. Can't do it all at once...

Thanks for your input. It was very helpful.

Actually, you don't NEED to use an XLR adapter. You just need an XLR Female to Mini stereo plut, but it needs to have some sort of capacitor built into it. I know this works because I used the cable that came with the SA-568, but I only got audio on 1 channel. Then I got a $4 adapter from Radio Shack and I was able to get stereo sound directly into the GL-2. The XLR adapter just gives you some more control of the volume, and it takes care of duplicating the sound to the second channel. It sounded exaclty the same with or without the XLR adapter.

Interesting. What was the exact name of the adapter you bought at Radio Shack? I can only imagine going in there and having some yahoo have no idea what I am talking about.

This could help solve my problem.

Thanks.

I actually have the reciept: part # 2740374
Description: 1/8 inch Mini Plug Mono to 1/8 inch Mini Plut Stereo.
Make sure that the plug end has two black bands which indicates its stereo. Its silver/chrome metal all around, no plastic. It was $2.99 plus tax. Make sure you get the right XLR female to 1/8 mini plug though. I saw the cable at Markertek.com, I would call them and ask them about the cable.