Okay, in reading through the threads in the section, I keep hearing references to iriver. Tell me, what is the iriver of which you all speak?

Actually, I Googled it, so I see that it is some sort of mp3 player, and I assume, recorder that some of you use to capture audio at live events. What I can't figure out on my own is:

1. What iriver product(s) do you use and why?

2. Do they have built in microphones, or do you plug a mic or other sound source into them?

3. Are there other brands of this sort of device besides iriver that someone uses, and why?

Please, I am intrigued and possibly interested in having one/some of these, myself.

TIA,

Vence

unfortunately the referred iRiver is not in production anymore.
it was the serie IFP-7xx and IFP-8xx (the xx designed the memory size, 99 being the biggest with 1 gig).
these little marvell were powered for more than 40 hours with a regular AAA cell and got an internal mic as well as a minijack to plug either a line source or an external mic. They were able to record mp3 at high bandwith/quality (320K) and all of this in a lipstick form factor.
You can still find them on ebay or some refurbished at iriver for about 50$ (original price was more than 200$).
since this serie, the mp3 player has not really evolved (harddisk are too fragile, embedded battery require an usb port to recharge and often offered shorter time, mic/line input has been removed most of time or recording at high quality is not possible)
I got 3 IFP-799 (2 for recording, one for listening music) and i am very happy with.

2. Do they have built in microphones, or do you plug a mic or other sound source into them?

3. Are there other brands of this sort of device besides iriver that someone uses, and why?

Please, I am intrigued and possibly interested in having one/some of these, myself.

TIA,

Vence

Two words: Micro Memo
http://www.xtrememac.com/audio/earphones_recorders/micromemo_video/

I've used this for two events now and have been amazed at the quality! I did a wedding last weekend in a large church and there was no audio system in the church. I had my 80 GB iPod connected to the lavalier mic that is optional, the groom put in his jacket pocket, and zero interfance like I've read so much with wireless mics on these forums. It records in 16 bit audio and 44.1 kHz and saves as a .wav file. I drop it into my Final Cut Pro timeline along with the video track and there are no out of sync issues of any kind. The lavalier mic is omnidirectional and picks up the bride speaking almost as if she was wearing the mic. Without it, at this last wedding, I wouldn't have got the vows recorded on my video. No static, rustling or anything else is noticed.

It also accepts line-in so you could connect more expensive mics into it, but for weddings, the lavalier they sell as an option does a great job. I get over 5 hours of recording time on my fully charged iPod.

Total cost is ~$100 for the recorder and mic, + the cost of an iPod video, but they make one for the Nano as well.

I'm waiting for the moderators of DVInfo to return from NAB to turn on posting for my account, and I'd be happy to upload a small sample, audio and video in a .zip file.

Grant

I use an iRiver 790 for quite a bit of recording but mostly for capturing audio during band performances.

The 790 has a built in mic but I don't typically use it. I use the "line in" mode. To capture band audio, I run from the left and right out of the mixer (1/4" plugs), using a splitter cable. Then using adapters, I take the 1/4" down to 1/8" to plug into the line in on the the iRiver. After recording I use USB to transfer it to my computer.

The 790, of course, has a mini plug headphone jack too.

I'm quite satified with the 790. The audio quality is very good. You can spend a lot more to get good audio but the 790 is more than adequate IMO and a great little tool to have. It's a little hard to figure out at first but once you get the hang of it, you'll really appreciate its quality.

I got a reconditioned one from buy (dot) com for about $30.

Jeff

Total cost is ~$100 for the recorder and mic, + the cost of an iPod video, but they make one for the Nano as well.There lies the rub. You need an iPod itself so the price just doubled or tripled plus you still have all the limitations of the proprietary iPod.

There is talk that this is the next iRiver replacement for wedding videographers:

http://homerecording.about.com/od/newproductfirstlooks/a/zoom_h2_review.htm

Of course it's specs indicate it will be better than any iRiver could ever hope to be and at $200 it's a "doable" replacement.

Okay, in reading through the threads in the section, I keep hearing references to iriver. Tell me, what is the iriver of which you all speak?

Actually, I Googled it, so I see that it is some sort of mp3 player, and I assume, recorder that some of you use to capture audio at live events. What I can't figure out on my own is:

1. What iriver product(s) do you use and why?

2. Do they have built in microphones, or do you plug a mic or other sound source into them?

3. Are there other brands of this sort of device besides iriver that someone uses, and why?

Please, I am intrigued and possibly interested in having one/some of these, myself.

TIA,

Vence

Hi Vence,

Iriver's was maybe the best choice out there for various reasons. For me Size and quality. I have the Ifp999 1Gb it cost around $300.00 at the time. I purchased it like 2 years ago. Now the Irivers are not the same no Line/Mic inputs. All you can find are used or refurbished units.
But there is a new kid in town. I preordered 2 Zoom H2, which hopefully will be using instead of MD. They should be out by May and so far looks like a perfect solution, and can be used with the integrated 3 side mics, take a look at the attachment. More info here:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1916&brandID=4

Thanks for the info. Now I understand why I couldn't find the product that fit what you all were describing - it no longer exists! I may try to find a used/refub unit, but I may just spring for the Zoom H2. That looks very cool. I am quite impressed by it's versatility and specs. What a great little device!

Grant, I also like the idea of the ipod attachment. Rick, it's true that you have to purchase an ipod, but I happen to already own one, so it's not a bad option. My partner also owns an ipod, so for only $120 we could have TWO recording devices, instead of just one for $200 (the Zoom). I realize the Zoom is a better quality and more versatile device than the Micro Memo, but for the price, it's tempting.

-Vence

Grant, I also like the idea of the ipod attachment. Rick, it's true that you have to purchase an ipod, but I happen to already own one, so it's not a bad option. My partner also owns an ipod, so for only $120 we could have TWO recording devices, instead of just one for $200 (the Zoom). I realize the Zoom is a better quality and more versatile device than the Micro Memo, but for the price, it's tempting.

-Vence

How else can you get an 80 GB Video iPod and write it off as a business expense? Best of both worlds. I actually use my iPod as a portable sales tool too, I convert my wedding montages to iPod video format and can show people the quality of work they can get in wedding coverage. The Micro Memo has a built in speaker so no need to give clients headphones to wear.

Never the less, as pointed out, it is an additional cost if you don't have one already, but I already had the iPod and stumbled across the MicroMemo when visiting an Apple store on a business trip.

Looking at the Zoom seems promising too. One nice thing about the iPod setup is that I can lock the iPod so there is no chance of bumping the record button when in a jacket pocket with lavalier. Does anyone know if there is a lock feature on the Zoom?

That looks promising too.

Grant

You can get an iRiver here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300102546007&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us

Jim

I just picked up two used iRiver IFP390T for my kids. getting mp3's etc onto them using the proprietary software works fine, but apparently it will not allow mp3's to be uploaded from the unit to the PC.

so for those of you using these units for weddings etc, how do you get the audio into your app? analog conversion? the manual is no help, in one line it indicates you can upload mp3s to the PC the next line says you cannot. Support on the web says you cannot.

I just picked up two used iRiver IFP390T for my kids. getting mp3's etc onto them using the proprietary software works fine, but apparently it will not allow mp3's to be uploaded from the unit to the PCSure it will. Just plug the unit into the USB cable, fire up the software and drag the audio clips to the folder of your choice and follow the prompts. It will convert them.

I purchased a iriver 895 from best buy for like $125 when it first came out, its recorded over 100 weddings and still working like a champ. I also purchased a few refurbed 795 units.

If you buy an iriver, go to http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/gs/gs-mono1.htm and buy the mic for it!

I always sync my irivers by putting a couple together and then clapping my hands. I usually set up the irivers about 1/2 hour or so prior to the service and then forget them until it's time to go. I sync them by turning them on, testing the audio settings, loc them(on hold) then I clap my hands a few times with the 2 or 3 irivers in the same location. That way when you edit, you only have to sync it once. :)


I just purchased a micro memo for my ipod and will post when I test it.
Jon

There lies the rub. You need an iPod itself so the price just doubled or tripled plus you still have all the limitations of the proprietary iPod.

There is talk that this is the next iRiver replacement for wedding videographers:

http://homerecording.about.com/od/newproductfirstlooks/a/zoom_h2_review.htm

Of course it's specs indicate it will be better than any iRiver could ever hope to be and at $200 it's a "doable" replacement.

I agree, 200 bucks for something the groom may drop out of his pocket and on to the floor is not really a replacment.

But replacment technology does work, just look at VISTA..........................wait. Nevermind, that's not a good analogy.

I haven't been able to find out of the Zoom H2 will have some sort of auto levels function, does anybody know?

The cost difference between this and an iriver seems negligible considering the importance of what it is recording.

As far as the micromemo goes, does that have an auto levels function and how well does it work if so?

Patrick

Do the Iriver recorders require a powered microphone?

Sure it will. Just plug the unit into the USB cable, fire up the software and drag the audio clips to the folder of your choice and follow the prompts. It will convert them.


Rick, believe me, I've tried that and it doesn't work, at least here. But I will give it another shot tonight.

Do the Iriver recorders require a powered microphone?

No. .

no, the irivers do not require a powered microphone, check the link from above.

Rick, believe me, I've tried that and it doesn't work, at least here. But I will give it another shot tonight.I assume you're trying this with a recording you made with the iRiver right? If you're trying to offload MP3 tunes to your PC though... I've never tried this as I use my iRivers strictly for recording. Even so, that would be strange that it wouldn't let you do this I would think.

What happens when you try. Does the iRiver music manager software give you a message? Do the files even list in the software?

If the firmware is old then the IRiver will not show up as a removal drive (like any normal mp3 player, psp, usb drive, etc. does). You can upgrade the firmware to the latest but it will also drop the max recording rate from 320kbps to around 96kbps. I still run the old firmware and I cannot see mine as a removable drive (I can only access this via the IRiver software. Hope this helps.

whoa whoa whoa.. ive never heard of this idea before but it seems to be just what Im after. Im using an onboard mic and a wireless mic for wedding speeches. If I was to buy a Micromemo (I think thats what its called) and connect it to my video ipod, do you think it would do a good job sitting on the top table...? Do you think it would be able to pick up everyones speech that is sitting along the top table (in which case meaning I wont need to use the wireless mic anymore?)

Would I need anything else also? I take it as logn as I fully charge my video ipod it runs off of the same battery?

Thanks
David

whoa whoa whoa.. ive never heard of this idea before but it seems to be just what Im after. Im using an onboard mic and a wireless mic for wedding speeches. If I was to buy a Micromemo (I think thats what its called) and connect it to my video ipod, do you think it would do a good job sitting on the top table...? Do you think it would be able to pick up everyones speech that is sitting along the top table (in which case meaning I wont need to use the wireless mic anymore?)

Would I need anything else also? I take it as logn as I fully charge my video ipod it runs off of the same battery?

Thanks
David

Yes, it runs off the iPod battery. However, the one drawback is that you can't charge as you're recording for your interview setting, it fits over the charging port. But I've gotten 4-5 hours record time with a single charge easily.

The lavalier mic for the MicroMemo is omnidirectional, and when the groom was wearing it, his voice was crystal clear and the bride's was as well (standing arm's length away), but slightly feinter (sp?) but still very clear and audible.

It will also accept line-in, so you can use existing mics you've already invested in. It comes with a mic, but I haven't used it because it's like a stick mic, and would be bulky for a wedding ceremony situation, but sitting on a table, might be just the right thing. The lavalier is an optional purchase, ~$100 for both items, plus the iPod of course, which you already have.

My requests to post attachments have still gone unanswered, otherwise, I'd share a small audio/video clip, zipped, showing what it can do.

Grant

Do you think it would be able to pick up everyones speech that is sitting along the top table (in which case meaning I wont need to use the wireless mic anymore?)I can't say what that mic will pick up just setting on a table top but I don't think the pattern would yield good results.

If you already have a wireless, are you tapping into the DJ's board for the toasts? If not... (and I understand) then maybe mic one of his speakers. I get really good sound using a Sennheiser e604 drum mic ($120) mounted on a cheap mic stand and fed into a wireless.

Rick, No the DJ isnt always present during the speeches, often a hand held mic isnt used so the clip mic I use is passed among speakers.. I only have one transmitter tho and i HATE having to get the speakers to pass it around, but theyre just too pricy to buy 2 or 3 more of them.

Grant, how do you clip the mic/ipod onto the speaker then? Also re: the lavalier, obviously I assume the mic you get with it is unidirectional and therefore possibly useless on a top table unless I move it between speeches?

thanks guys. Ive bought a micromemo anyway even if I dont use it for weddings it seems a nice little (and very affordable) creation if you already have an ipod!

EDIT:
having seen that the lavalier is a cheap tie clip mic.. do you think it would be a good idea to buy 4 of these, mic up all the speakers before the speeches, then simply unplug the ipod from speaker a's mic and connect it to speaker b's mic and so on.. would the recording stop? This seems simpler than trying to get the tie mic disconnected and re attached, as this took some time on the one and only occasion I have used it...

Rick, No the DJ isnt always present during the speeches, often a hand held mic isnt used so the clip mic I use is passed among speakers.. I've never done a wedding without folks talking into some kind of mic which in turn is fed through a PA system.

I can't believe I'm about to suggest this but... the most economical solution I have would be to use a shotgun mic. :)

*If* you can get within 8 feet of the toaster that is. I just can't picture pausing the natural flow of the event in order for you to transfer that iPod to each mic.

Also, if you do this types of "mic-less" events that often I would invest that $400 in a small PA system and rent it out to the couple. Then split feed that mic into a cam.

yeah it only takes about 5 secs to transfer the mic and if i get in whilst the appluase is happening its not too bad, but i still dont want to ever have to do it again! what do you mean by shotgun mic? not a camera mounted one? I much prefer the idea of some sort of table mounted mic to investing in a PA, although i can see this PA would serve as a bonus for the audience as well as ensuring a nice recording of the speeches, assuming they use the mic well.. I'll certainly think about that. What piece of hardware would I need to split the signal once into the PA to the speakers as well as the cam input through the wireless receiever?

what do you mean by shotgun mic?Search the forum or google it for options. It's a camera mounted mic designed for a tight pickup pattern - isolationg noise from the outside of your subject.

What piece of hardware would I need to split the signal once into the PA to the speakers as well as the cam input through the wireless receiever?Depends on the system. You would most likely plug your wireless transmitter into an "aux out" jack using a $7 cable.

Hmm, am I missing something here?

I have a small wireless system with a butt plug for my handheld. In your situation, I'd probably hook it up and have the guests pass it around. Problem solved. If it needs to be put thru a PA system, I'd add a second receiver and connect that to the mixer board. Simple. Quick. Works.

In fact, I'll be doing a rehearsal this Friday. Most likely there won't be any PA system. I'll be doing exactly what I just described.

Mark

thanks Grant!....since reading your posts on the Micromemo today, i've now bought one for peanuts on amazon, to be delivered tomorrow.

and i have a wedding on saturday, bonus!

i already have an iRiver, but i'm not overly keen on the fiddly controls/menus, and i use my video iPod everyday of my life so it makes perfect sense.

- To those interested, i'll do a comparison test between the iRiver and Micromemo. I'll even try the giant squid in the micromemo!

- To those interested, i 'may' sell my iRiver if i prefer the Micromemo :)


cheers

In your situation, I'd probably hook it up and have the guests pass it around. Problem solved.


Mark, problem is I dont have a hand held mic at the mo to connect to the wireless. I suppose this could work but even at the last wedding when the groom tapped the clip mic and looked at me in a jokey way, some crack shot in the audience shouted "we cant hear you!".. I can only imagine how many times that would happen if they were handing round a clearly visable hand held mic that wasnt in turn connected to a PA...

Richard, please let me know how you get on at the wedding with the micromemo..

Grant, how do you clip the mic/ipod onto the speaker then? Also re: the lavalier, obviously I assume the mic you get with it is unidirectional and therefore possibly useless on a top table unless I move it between speeches?

EDIT:
having seen that the lavalier is a cheap tie clip mic.. do you think it would be a good idea to buy 4 of these, mic up all the speakers before the speeches, then simply unplug the ipod from speaker a's mic and connect it to speaker b's mic and so on.. would the recording stop? This seems simpler than trying to get the tie mic disconnected and re attached, as this took some time on the one and only occasion I have used it...

Disconnecting the mic from the base unit stops recording. You have to start again.

I used the lavalier mic in a training seminar where the room size held 200 people, and it picked up the presenter (20 feet away from me) and people asking questions 30 feet away. I had the iPod and the lav mic sitting on an armrest in the auditorum. It was quieter further away, but the main speaker was clear as could be.

When using the MM at a wedding, the groom had the iPod in his front jacket pocket and the lav clipped to his jacket and the bride's vows were almost as clearly audible as the grooms.

Grant

Grant,

I have been mainly thinking about speeches, but i'll certainly get the groom to drop the ipod into his pocket during the ceremony, he can take it off just before the register photos and no one will have known!

This little product is quite the find. I'll be getting mine monday hopefully and will test it extensively before I use it at a wedding.

David etc,

as i say i should have mine by the end of the day or tomorrow, to use at a wedding on Saturday so i'll let ppl know how i get on

and i'm only allowed to use the camcorder at the back of the church, so it will be a great test for it!

then also too on the head table during the speeches with supplied stick mic.

fingers crossed

for now here's another review and test clip to play:
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/27964

geez, Grant must be on commission for recommending this toy :)

Grant,

I have been mainly thinking about speeches, but i'll certainly get the groom to drop the ipod into his pocket during the ceremony, he can take it off just before the register photos and no one will have known!

This little product is quite the find. I'll be getting mine monday hopefully and will test it extensively before I use it at a wedding.

The last one I was at, he kept it during the receiving line which was outside the church and with all the people, I couldn't get close enough to pick up much ambient audio with my VX2100, so it was a nice bonus to have their comments from friends and family. It just kept recording after the ceremony.

Grant

ok mine arrived today seems excellent, but can somebody tell me how to export the voice memo from itues to a wav or mp3 onto my pc? I have never been able to export from itunes.. indeed i didnt think it was possible short of browsing hidden folders on the ipod in which the labelling of songs is all mixed up..

David, check out the new thread i've posted 'more on the Micromemo for the iPod'

really easy, when u sync to itunes, it puts the .wav into your 'my music/iTunes' folder.

on the iPod, it puts it into a Voice Memo Playlist.

ok mine arrived today seems excellent, but can somebody tell me how to export the voice memo from itues to a wav or mp3 onto my pc?

I sync my iPod music and movies to my XP machine, but edit in FCP on the Mac. I just connect the iPod to the Mac (disk mode is enabled from my setup on the XP machine) and the files are in a folder called "Recordings". I'm sure the same applies on the XP as long as you are in disk mode with the iPod. Your iPod should show up as a removable disk under My Computer, using Explorer, you should see a Recordings folder. That is where your files are with a date and time stamp as part of the filename.

Grant

thanks guys. I went through all the trouble of looking in ipod control/music hidden folder and searched for them there.. for some reason I totally ignored the My Recordings folder staring me in the face..

I think its a great gadget (although my speaker doesnt seem to work..) but I am having trouble with consistency when using a lapel mic I have designed for use with a wireless pack. It seems to only record any audio 50% of the time. It has a strange screw contraption on the 3.5mm socket so I have ordered one off of ebay without this connection to see if i get more consistent recordings.

I think its a great gadget (although my speaker doesnt seem to work..)

You need to press and hold the button on the front of the MM for about two seconds to activate the speaker.

Grant

ah so you do.. thanks grant.

Now I just hope the new clip mic works more consistently!

David

ok i have used the new clip mic for a wedding yesterday but when listening to the wav file in full i am finding that there are regular skips/jumps in the file.. has anyone experienced this before?

ok i have used the new clip mic for a wedding yesterday but when listening to the wav file in full i am finding that there are regular skips/jumps in the file.. has anyone experienced this before?

I can only report my experiences, and with an 80GB iPod, fully charged before event, and the MicroMemo, with optional lavalier mike, I've gotten complete audio with no other issues. I used the audio for three segments of the wedding video, synced it once, cut out what I didn't need, and when I went down the time line in FCP the audio was in sync where it needed to be.

It could be an issue with the iPod. Which type/size are you using?

Grant

its a 30gb video. Used it at another wedding today, will check results and get back to you tomorrow. I hope it was just a one off..

edit: yeah, same problem again. its a right pain. happens every 30 seconds of so.

I have about 10 gig spare on the ipod but im considering formatting it and trying again.

anyone got any ideas?

anyone got any ideas?Get the right tool for the job at hand. :)

I know this isn't much help but this is the surest solution. The frustration alone should make you want to do this.

Looks like the iRiver 7xx/8xx series may have been revived as the iRiver F700, now with 4GB of memory. I'm not sure if the mic level input feature has made it since I can't read Japanese (Japan only player). Anyways, I'm not really interested in this player since there's no need for that much memory for our application, and the old iRivers are great because they're cheap, and this new one costs a heck of a lot more.

I do find it incredible that a small flash based player with a clean mic-level input doesn't seem to currently exist. Too bad....they're very useful for weddings.

Get the right tool for the job at hand. :)

I know this isn't much help but this is the surest solution. The frustration alone should make you want to do this.


and by the right tool for the job, do you mean an i river instead of an ipod video?

can i use the same MicroMemo?

I have now used this sucessfully with my 30gb video on 30+ occasions with no skipping, the key for me was to format the ipod before each time i use it. Bit of a pain but gets rid of any skipping in the wav file if the ipod is empty (or almost empty - no more than 2gb or so on there)