Canon XL-H2- when?

Jacques Mersereau · July 18th, 2009, 07:49 PM

I think there is a large number of people waiting for Scarlet and I know a few people who are going to or have recently purchased the Sony EX3, which is now the camera of choice at that price point.
Our studio is about to buy two EX3s and hopes to buy two more if we can squeeze it out of the budget.
The reason for Canon to come out soon with a 5D on HD video steroids now is to make a product that many who are still going to buy will have a Canon choice. The longer Canon waits the more sales they will lose in both the short and long term; especially schools who purchase lots of cameras.

Oh well, our purchase order has been approved and we are now days away from purchasing SONY. When that happens, even if Canon comes out with a far better product, my next two cameras will also be SONY EX3s.

Jeff Kellam · July 20th, 2009, 02:36 PM

There is currently almost nothing (Maybe HPX300) that touches the EX-1/3 value and performance. They are a great choice.

Canon has a 100% track record of insanely slow camcorder development. They also have no pro-video following or market like Panasonic and Sony do. They have no SSD capture standards or equipment developed like SxS or P2.

Bottom line, don't wait on Canon. The H1& A1 were nice, but it could still be years before an all new system is developed and released. Then you still have to wait on the NLEs to catch up.

Peter Moretti · July 23rd, 2009, 01:11 AM

Jeff, do you care to comment of the image quality difference between your 150 and you A1?

Thanks ;)!

Jeff Kellam · July 23rd, 2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Jeff, do you care to comment of the image quality difference between your 150 and you A1?

Thanks ;)!

If you search, you can find the comparisons I did back in October 2008. Lots of others have made comparasons too.

10 months later my opinion is; they are both good cameras with strengths and weaknesses. Performance wise, the 150 has a definite edge in my use for wedding and event video.

Tapeless capture has been a total joy. Once you go tapeless, you can't even understand how you ever dealt with tape. The durability of a tapeless camera also can't be understated.

Yang Wen · August 7th, 2009, 10:57 AM

Why not have the the next XL-H to have a crop mode on the large sensor? crop it 1/3 and make it compatible with current XL-H1 lenses for applications where you don't need shallow DOF.

That being said, I haven't figured out the math on pixel density and whether a cropped 1/3 area will have enough pixels for HD.. prolly not.. bah!

Matthew Nayman · August 8th, 2009, 08:15 AM

The FFL of the EOS and XL lenses is probably incompatible.

Bill Koehler · August 8th, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

FFL

??? What is FFL?

Theodore McNeil · August 8th, 2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler

??? What is FFL?

Flange focal length Flange focal distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think.

Matthew Nayman · August 11th, 2009, 06:56 AM

Bingo.

The XL lenses sit much closer to the CCD than EF lenses, meaning if there is an EF mount (which there would have to be) then it would have to be removable and behind it would be an XL mount.

Of course, all of this is useless, because XL lenses wouldn't even come close to covering the full image.

Yang Wen · August 11th, 2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

Bingo.

The XL lenses sit much closer to the CCD than EF lenses, meaning if there is an EF mount (which there would have to be) then it would have to be removable and behind it would be an XL mount.

Of course, all of this is useless, because XL lenses wouldn't even come close to covering the full image.

Not the full sensor, just a crop of the full sensor..

Matthew Nayman · August 12th, 2009, 09:32 AM

that would be a difference of 7.6x resolution, so you would really need a 10mp sensor in there to do 1080 off 1/3

David Heath · August 23rd, 2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

A little bird told me... though I can neither confirm, nor deny...
50mbit/sec AVCHD, CF cards, ..........

Most of that spec doesn't seem too wild, but 50Mbs AVC-HD? I didn't think the AVC-HD spec went up to such bitrates? I wonder if it should have been 50Mbs 4:2:2 MPEG2? (Same as the Sony PDW700/800.) Immediately accepted by most editing systems, EBU approved, and not need transcoding for most applications. (Unlike AVC-HD.)

Chris Hurd · August 23rd, 2009, 06:29 PM

You're right. If it's 50mbps, then it's not AVCHD. This is why these "a little bird told me" kinds of rumors do more harm than good. They're worse than useless, which is why I'm loathe to entertain them here.

Peter Moretti · August 24th, 2009, 06:57 AM

It's probably AVC-Intra, no?

Chris Hurd · August 24th, 2009, 08:06 AM

They would need a licensing agreement with Panasonic for it to be AVC-Intra.

Not impossible, but not likely either.

July 18th, 2009, 07:49 PM	#31
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	I think there is a large number of people waiting for Scarlet and I know a few people who are going to or have recently purchased the Sony EX3, which is now the camera of choice at that price point. Our studio is about to buy two EX3s and hopes to buy two more if we can squeeze it out of the budget. The reason for Canon to come out soon with a 5D on HD video steroids now is to make a product that many who are still going to buy will have a Canon choice. The longer Canon waits the more sales they will lose in both the short and long term; especially schools who purchase lots of cameras. Oh well, our purchase order has been approved and we are now days away from purchasing SONY. When that happens, even if Canon comes out with a far better product, my next two cameras will also be SONY EX3s. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

July 20th, 2009, 02:36 PM	#32
Jeff Kellam Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 656	There is currently almost nothing (Maybe HPX300) that touches the EX-1/3 value and performance. They are a great choice. Canon has a 100% track record of insanely slow camcorder development. They also have no pro-video following or market like Panasonic and Sony do. They have no SSD capture standards or equipment developed like SxS or P2. Bottom line, don't wait on Canon. The H1& A1 were nice, but it could still be years before an all new system is developed and released. Then you still have to wait on the NLEs to catch up. __________________ Panasonic HMC150/Canon A1/JVC HD1/Sony Vegas 8.0c

July 23rd, 2009, 01:11 AM	#33
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Jeff, do you care to comment of the image quality difference between your 150 and you A1? Thanks ;)! __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

August 23rd, 2009, 06:29 PM	#43
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	You're right. If it's 50mbps, then it's not AVCHD. This is why these "a little bird told me" kinds of rumors do more harm than good. They're worse than useless, which is why I'm loathe to entertain them here. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 24th, 2009, 06:57 AM	#44
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	It's probably AVC-Intra, no? __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

August 7th, 2009, 10:57 AM	#35
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Why not have the the next XL-H to have a crop mode on the large sensor? crop it 1/3 and make it compatible with current XL-H1 lenses for applications where you don't need shallow DOF. That being said, I haven't figured out the math on pixel density and whether a cropped 1/3 area will have enough pixels for HD.. prolly not.. bah!

August 8th, 2009, 08:15 AM	#36
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	The FFL of the EOS and XL lenses is probably incompatible.

August 11th, 2009, 06:56 AM	#39
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Bingo. The XL lenses sit much closer to the CCD than EF lenses, meaning if there is an EF mount (which there would have to be) then it would have to be removable and behind it would be an XL mount. Of course, all of this is useless, because XL lenses wouldn't even come close to covering the full image.

August 12th, 2009, 09:32 AM	#41
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	that would be a difference of 7.6x resolution, so you would really need a 10mp sensor in there to do 1080 off 1/3

August 24th, 2009, 08:06 AM	#45
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	They would need a licensing agreement with Panasonic for it to be AVC-Intra. Not impossible, but not likely either. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!