SONY's answer to the GH5?

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I have read the battery runs much longer if you turn off sensor stabilization, when you are on a tripod that needs to be turned of anyway.

Yes I am recharging the battery and will try again with absolute minimum settings. I just wanted to see how long the internal battery would last in normal use. Will report back with everything turned off !!

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

As far as bit rates go my FDR-AX1 is also 150Mbps for UHD60P. You cannot just double when you go to 60 from 30 as they are Long GOP codecs and only record the differences. There will be much more movement between frames for a 30P video than a 60P video so the 30P video may need a lot more data to record the difference to the last frame than for 60P. Will totally depend on the subject of course but if there is a lot of movement there will be more issues with the 30P file. If there is little movement then it doesn't matter. If one is concerned about bit rates etc then buy a Inferno and record ProRes or DNxXX and get a nice 7" HDR monitor as well.

You are exactly right about the relationship between bitrates and frame rates with Long GOP codecs. What say you, however, about color sampling and 10bit - does capturing 10bit 4:2:2 require more bitrates than capturing 8bit 4:2:0?

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

... What say you, however, about color sampling and 10bit - does capturing 10bit 4:2:2 require more bitrates than capturing 8bit 4:2:0?

Yes of course at the same frame rates and colour depth. However my comments were purely like for like 30P and 60P. Doesn't matter whether that is 10 bit 4:2:2 or 8 bit 4:2:0. I am sure the engineers have taken all this into consideration.

[Cliff Totten]

Noa, you are somewhat right. I have and A7S-II that I will be keeping. I also have 5 Sony FF lenses that will stay. However, my A6300 and 4 Sony lenses will likely be sold. I'm waiting to see what Sony will release but it there is nothing 10bit, I will sell all my APS-C gear and keep my GH5.

If Sony DOES release a 10bit E-Mount model, than the GH5 gets returned and I stay a happy Sony shooter. Keeping 8bit on my Sony ENG cameras doesn't bother me.

I'm OK if Sony only outputs 10 over HDMI,...I can live with that. If Sony stays 100% 8 bit only? Than Panasonic is going to get ALL of my new gear budget of about $6,000 this year. This is money that I would have easily given to Sony this year. (including the new Sony "rumored" 400mm zoom lens)

So yeah,...I stay with Sony FF but I sell all my APS-C hardware and buy a GH5 and some new Panny lenses and batteries XLR adapter...etc..

I'm tired of color grading SLOG-2/3 in 8bit!

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I have read the battery runs much longer if you turn off sensor stabilization, when you are on a tripod that needs to be turned of anyway.

I have re done the test with everything switched off. Manual everything and lens image stabilizer off . Still cannot find anything in the menu to switch off the in body stabilizer. Made sure the E- Stabilizer was Off. So shooting UHD 60P the battery lasted about 1hour 30 mins before it shut down. I had originally thought about getting the battery grip but I think for my application in the theatre on a tripod the Atomos Power Station that I bought is the correct solution. I am not going to hand hold it to shoot video as I think my AX53 is a better choice for that. Since I do not shoot stills it will spend its life on a tripod. Will likely get a Ninja Inferno to go with it so the setup will work fine on the tripod.

Will try again with everything on as before just to see if I got correct with a full battery the first time. I know I started with a freshly charged battery the second time.

[Noa Put]

Still cannot find anything in the menu to switch off the in body stabilizer.

I believe that is only possible if you have a native m4/3 lens with OIS that has a switch on the lens to turn on/off stabilization, once you turn the stabilization off on the lens it should deactivate the IBIS.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I believe that is only possible if you have a native m4/3 lens with OIS that has a switch on the lens to turn on/off stabilization, once you turn the stabilization off on the lens it should deactivate the IBIS.

Yes when I switched the lens off the red hand OFF appeared in the LCD. Apparently the ability to switch the IBIS on or off only appears when a non Panasonic non OIS lens is attached. Otherwise the switch on the lens performs the action. You get dual IS or none . Will re-do the test with everything on today and report back as I want to make sure I start with a full battery.

[Ron Evans]

I have repeated my first battery test with a fresh battery that was on charge over night so definitely full . With auto ISO, continuous AF on and Dual IS on it went for 1hour 50 mins. Now one has to bear in mind that it was not moving and only really the auto focus was being used to as I moved in front of it. It was just looking at me on the computer. Will clearly use a lot more being moved around.

[Simon Denny]

I'm keeping my A7s as I move onto the GH5, was thinking of selling my Sony gear (body wise) however thought the A7s will come in handy and really it's still a very usable camera for all things.

[Jim Stamos]

Ron can u shoot 4k 60p via the atomos with your ax53? did u consider?

[Ron Evans]

AX53 will not shoot UHD 60P only UHD 30P same as the AX100 which is why I only use both of these at 1920x1080 60P. Not a fan of slow frame rates. I do not yet have the Atomos Inferno but have a Blackmagic Video Assist which will record HD only via HDMI or SDI. This works fine from any of my camcorders. SDI or HDMI from the NX5U , HDMI from the others and will trigger from SDI ,HDMI triggers or tImecode running.

I have tested with setting GH5 HDMI output to 1920x1080 60P when the GH5 is recording UHD60 and the Video Assist works fine triggering from timecode sent by the GH5.

[Cliff Totten]

I hope Sony is NOT going to rely on their customers staying away from the GH5 because it's not full frame.

I'm the biggest Sony guys there is. I'm literally a Sony zombie fanboy. But if Sony's A7S-III doesn't have 10bit HDMI out?....I'm NOT going to buy. I'll keep my A7s-II and uses this years camera budget to apply to my new GH5. Panny gets my money and Sony looses out.

I'm pretty sure there are ALLOT of Sony guys that will do the same thing. I strongly believe that the GH5 WILL compete for the same customer dollars that the A7 series does.

I dont think there is any true "sensor size" loyalty or brand loyalty.

CT

[Jack Zhang]

Well, all we got was 1 UHS-II slot (FINALLY) and dual slot with 1 UHS-II and 1 UHS-I slot.

Still 8bit HDMI and still 4K 30p (with crop factor)

I'm no longer convinced. I'm getting a GH5.

[Ron Evans]

It is nicely priced so that if you really want a video camera you would buy the FS5 and if you wanted UHD 60P then you have to buy the FS7 !!! I think that Sony are a little stuck protecting existing products that lack some features now introduced by Panasonic both with the GH5 and the UX180/ HC-X1. If they bring out competitive products they cannibalize the current product line. They are missing the point that SD cards are fine up to 150 or even 400Mbps with V90 cards and if one needs higher quality then an external recorder with a nice big screen is a better alternative than going to XQD cards !!! It is really strange that 4 years ago Sony introduced the FDR-AX1 ( that I have ) and the PXW-Z100 and all they had to do was update them with the sensors now in the UX180/HC-X1 leaving the specs as they were. I was waiting for this to happen but gave up and have bought the GH5 instead !!! The only time since the Hi8 VX3 I have not updated to a Sony camera. All at this same price point of about $4500. For me moving to an FS7 equipped as I would want is just too much. I wanted UHD60P with touch focus only the Panasonic's give me this yet I would have bought a AX100 variant with UHD60P as I like the feature set on that or the AX53. Strange marketing logic !!!!

[Cliff Totten]

So now we have a great idea of what the A9-S is going to look like. So we only have two more days until we find out but here is my prediction:

Typical 8 bit XAVC-S UHD 100 Mbp/s. Not internal 10bit.

10bit HDMI output at 30p but you cant record 8bit internal while sending 10bit from HDMI

20MP sensor - Almost 6k sensor scan and downsample to 4k in full frame mode and simple 1:1 UHD Super 35 crop mode. 20mp is just about enough to support both modes.

No 29 minute limit.

Heat trouble? Maybe during internal recording but 10bit HDMI output only will run cool.

This should be enough to protect the FS7 and the FS5 upgraded model too.

CT