Sony SR12 questions

Dave Blackhurst · August 14th, 2008, 03:56 PM

I'll add to the discussion - the HDD can be removed from the SR11/12 - only 4 screws, and it can be popped right out - only a ribbon cable connects HDD to the cam - the drive itself is supported by a cushy foam insert.

You can still record to MS Duo, and while the camera constantly flashes an error message due to the absence of the Hard Drive, it operates just fine.

Recently had the chance to check this, so just had to try it! Also, I'll note that after seeing how the HDD is mounted, I'm far more comfortable that the camera would be pretty rugged - I suspect that between the drop sensor and the design, anything that would damage the drive probably would result in the total loss of the camera... feeling better about the idea of a HDD now! I know it "might" fail one day, but by then my 256GB MS Duo <wink> should work fine!

Mircea Voinea · September 4th, 2008, 03:26 AM

Well, I have a question about this camera.
Did you find AE is quite bad in many situations? For instance, I shoot a mountain and the sky is blown; many times I shoot the grass and if in center is a shadow zone then it blows the highlights.
I put one clip Bad AE? on Vimeo. It's in AE, I move the camera up and down to see how AE changes...
At last (not in this clip) I switch to manual; on camera's LCD the sky looks good (with clouds) only if the mountain is a little dark; but I find that image on my HDTV is whiter (and ok) than camera's LCD...

Dave Blackhurst · September 4th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Actually been fairly happy with the AE, I just looked at some footage similar to yours, and I do see the sky blown out on SOME of the parts of the clip... but the majority looks great.

I'd be inclined to suggest you try the AE shift - I've used that myself, and it's not unusual for Sony to run the exposure a bit on the bright side. This is probably to brighten up indoor scenes, and by using AE shift you can override it farily sucessfully - looks better, with a bit more contrast anyway!

Try AE shift -2 to -4 and see if that helps? If exposure is STILL a problem, check the zebras, with AE shift a couple points to the negative (which will set the auto a little less "hot" - exposure will be on top of that), and assign the control button/wheel to exposure and go manual as needed.

Auto can only go so far, and that's when having SOME control becomes helpful. Generally I'd say the camera makes pretty good decisions about what section of the scene it needs to focus/expose "properly", but if a portion is not the way YOU want it, override with the exposure control. You may want something to one side of the scene to be the focus/exposure point, where the cam will look to the center... just override as needed.

Mircea Voinea · September 4th, 2008, 01:36 PM

Thank you Dave for your advice. I was happy with AE until that day. I tried spot exposure and it works pretty well, too.
In night scenes manual exposure (or AE shift) is also needed; I don't try if AE shift can be used to limit autogain to some extent... instead of using twilight mode.

Geoff Castleman · February 3rd, 2009, 09:40 PM

[Best response I can get from a Sony video technican and his rsponse from sony after four (4) different answers. Here is my latest , I am still not sur what to do as I do not want to by another camera maybe I go back tope and my old Panasonic???

Hi Geoff,

Below is the best response I can get from Sony.

Thanks, Jeff

a. Is the HDD completely independent of the operation of the MS?? Yes

b. Does the HDD spin while recording video to MS?? I would say No

c. I am travelling to Sth America in March and want know if I can

safely ONLY using MS, record to MS then the back up using portable DVD
burner

at Cuzco (Peru) and La Paz (Bolivia) both place are above 3000M?? Out of
the Operation Manual "Note on using the camcorder at high altitudes - Do
not turn on the camcorder in a low pressure area, where altitude is more
than 3000 meters or 9800 feet. Doing so may damage the hard disk of your
camcorder. This is also when using memory stick because when turning on
camcorder will initialise and activate hard drive.

A suggestion if he's after a non HDD, he could research the HDRTG1E.

Dave Blackhurst · February 4th, 2009, 12:39 AM

you could take a look at the MS Duo only CX12 - I saw BB closing out at $700... no VF and smaller screen, but great little cam with similar overall controls and same sensor block. Same accessories all around except for the dock, so you could still travel light, even if you took one of each.

If you already have an SR12, it takes 4 screws (jeweler's Phillips screwdriver) to pop the side, then gently detach the ribbon cable - the cam will run fine if set to record to MS, although it will give a warning message. You wouldn't even probably need to take the HDD out, as it won't spin up with the cable disconnected. If you disconnect the HDD end, you'd probably want to insulate the end, but IIRC the other end is easy to detach (And I'd think the better choice - always make sure there's no chance of shorting anything...).

I can't guarantee it, but you should be fine downloading files even with the HDD disconnected - since you can choose the USB connection (HDD or MS).

This might "void your warranty", but should be better than head crashing a HDD...

Hope that helps you solve the dilemma

February 3rd, 2009, 09:40 PM	#35
Geoff Castleman Tourist Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: mildura Posts: 2	HDD at high altitude [Best response I can get from a Sony video technican and his rsponse from sony after four (4) different answers. Here is my latest , I am still not sur what to do as I do not want to by another camera maybe I go back tope and my old Panasonic??? Hi Geoff, Below is the best response I can get from Sony. Thanks, Jeff a. Is the HDD completely independent of the operation of the MS?? Yes b. Does the HDD spin while recording video to MS?? I would say No c. I am travelling to Sth America in March and want know if I can safely ONLY using MS, record to MS then the back up using portable DVD burner at Cuzco (Peru) and La Paz (Bolivia) both place are above 3000M?? Out of the Operation Manual "Note on using the camcorder at high altitudes - Do not turn on the camcorder in a low pressure area, where altitude is more than 3000 meters or 9800 feet. Doing so may damage the hard disk of your camcorder. This is also when using memory stick because when turning on camcorder will initialise and activate hard drive. A suggestion if he's after a non HDD, he could research the HDRTG1E.

August 14th, 2008, 03:56 PM	#31
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	I'll add to the discussion - the HDD can be removed from the SR11/12 - only 4 screws, and it can be popped right out - only a ribbon cable connects HDD to the cam - the drive itself is supported by a cushy foam insert. You can still record to MS Duo, and while the camera constantly flashes an error message due to the absence of the Hard Drive, it operates just fine. Recently had the chance to check this, so just had to try it! Also, I'll note that after seeing how the HDD is mounted, I'm far more comfortable that the camera would be pretty rugged - I suspect that between the drop sensor and the design, anything that would damage the drive probably would result in the total loss of the camera... feeling better about the idea of a HDD now! I know it "might" fail one day, but by then my 256GB MS Duo <wink> should work fine!

September 4th, 2008, 03:26 AM	#32
Mircea Voinea Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Targu Jiu, Romania Posts: 29	Well, I have a question about this camera. Did you find AE is quite bad in many situations? For instance, I shoot a mountain and the sky is blown; many times I shoot the grass and if in center is a shadow zone then it blows the highlights. I put one clip Bad AE? on Vimeo. It's in AE, I move the camera up and down to see how AE changes... At last (not in this clip) I switch to manual; on camera's LCD the sky looks good (with clouds) only if the mountain is a little dark; but I find that image on my HDTV is whiter (and ok) than camera's LCD...

September 4th, 2008, 12:06 PM	#33
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Actually been fairly happy with the AE, I just looked at some footage similar to yours, and I do see the sky blown out on SOME of the parts of the clip... but the majority looks great. I'd be inclined to suggest you try the AE shift - I've used that myself, and it's not unusual for Sony to run the exposure a bit on the bright side. This is probably to brighten up indoor scenes, and by using AE shift you can override it farily sucessfully - looks better, with a bit more contrast anyway! Try AE shift -2 to -4 and see if that helps? If exposure is STILL a problem, check the zebras, with AE shift a couple points to the negative (which will set the auto a little less "hot" - exposure will be on top of that), and assign the control button/wheel to exposure and go manual as needed. Auto can only go so far, and that's when having SOME control becomes helpful. Generally I'd say the camera makes pretty good decisions about what section of the scene it needs to focus/expose "properly", but if a portion is not the way YOU want it, override with the exposure control. You may want something to one side of the scene to be the focus/exposure point, where the cam will look to the center... just override as needed.

September 4th, 2008, 01:36 PM	#34
Mircea Voinea Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Targu Jiu, Romania Posts: 29	Thank you Dave for your advice. I was happy with AE until that day. I tried spot exposure and it works pretty well, too. In night scenes manual exposure (or AE shift) is also needed; I don't try if AE shift can be used to limit autogain to some extent... instead of using twilight mode.

February 4th, 2009, 12:39 AM	#36
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	you could take a look at the MS Duo only CX12 - I saw BB closing out at $700... no VF and smaller screen, but great little cam with similar overall controls and same sensor block. Same accessories all around except for the dock, so you could still travel light, even if you took one of each. If you already have an SR12, it takes 4 screws (jeweler's Phillips screwdriver) to pop the side, then gently detach the ribbon cable - the cam will run fine if set to record to MS, although it will give a warning message. You wouldn't even probably need to take the HDD out, as it won't spin up with the cable disconnected. If you disconnect the HDD end, you'd probably want to insulate the end, but IIRC the other end is easy to detach (And I'd think the better choice - always make sure there's no chance of shorting anything...). I can't guarantee it, but you should be fine downloading files even with the HDD disconnected - since you can choose the USB connection (HDD or MS). This might "void your warranty", but should be better than head crashing a HDD... Hope that helps you solve the dilemma