Computer requirements to edit AVCHD
 

Hey guys,

I have a ton of video to edit from my honeymoon. I realize I may need to assemble a new computer for this task. What are the minimum requirements to do this? Right now I have a Radeon 1600 pro card, a 3200 Athlon 64 and 3 gigs of memory running XP pro. I can upgrade the CPU to an 939 slot FX or X2 running at 3600 up to 4400. I am hoping that that may be enough because I don't want to assemble another monsta.

Let me know.

Regards,
Mario

What you need in the way of computer upgrade may be affected by your NLE software too.

I have a Canon HF100 and I've been using Pinnacle Studio since one of their very early versions. Version 11 with latest update patches will edit AVCHD .mts files without any transcoding and will render to SD DVDs, AVCHD format on SD DVD (playable in BluRay players or PS3, and various file formats.

But...Pinnacle says minimum specs for 1920x1080 AVCHD editing is quad core processor with 2.66GHz minimun clock speed. Mine is quad core Q6600 at 2.4GHz and it is kind of just barely handling it.

I had ordered a Dell refurb XPS 420 with the quad core Q6600, 4GB RAM, and a separate ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT graphics card...Hoping that would be enough.

For now, I set the camera for 1440x1080 at 12MBps and Pinnacle on that Dell handles that just fine and the results look great.

Check out:

http://www.vimeo.com/926994

To see.

Thanks for the info Bruce.

This is a major monkey wrench for me. It seems that Pixela (ImageMixer 3 SE) will not guarantee that it will work with a duo AMD processor. THey said it will not support 64bit. The thing is that it works on my current Athlon64 system, so I don't see why a different processor would make that much of a difference. I hope I don't have to go quad core. Also, I am hoping that my ATI X1600 Pro w/ 256mb of memory will provide enough horse power. We will see.

Which camera do you have and how did you have it set?

The HF100 has max resolution of 1920x1080 at 17Mbps, hi res of 1440x1080 at 12Mbps and two lower res 1440x1080 choices with lower bitrates.

If you had the cam set for the 1440x1080 at 12Mbps there's a chance your current computer would handle it with Pinnacle Studio.

Otherwise I would go for the fastest quad core processer but none slower than 2.66GHz clock speed that I could make myself afford.

Pixela ImageMaker works fine on my Quad core Q6600. It is a very awkward to use editor but in a pinch I suppose I could use it. On my trial sessions with it my biggest complaint is the supper sluggish way it responds to attempts to "trim" clips. I'm used to almost single frame accuracy in trimming "in" and "out" points.

Pinnacle Studio has these advantages:

1. Edits AVCHD natively-no need to transcode to anything else.

2. Very intuitive workflow. Especially with AVCHD

3. Many transitions and effects come with it.

4. Plus version has a second video track. Makes cutaways, picture in picture, greenscreen and stuff like that a lot easier.

5. Music generation: This is a big plus for me. It comes with some music you can use freely, scoring with music couldn't be simpler. Mark the scenes or sequence you need to score, select the music, and the computer and software "compose" it to the length needed with a beginning, middle passages, and most of the time a good ending.

6. Renders to a variety of file formats, DVD, and you can even render to an AVCHD file on standard DVD that plays in BluRay players or PS3.

7. Inexpensive. Best Buy has Studio 11 Plus for $99.95. The basic version is less but does not have the second video track and you don't need the more expensive Ultimate version.

But I would start building or saving towards a high performance platform. You'll need it.

Please forgive my somewhat off topic comments, but why is transcoding always mentioned such a big deal? I just don't get it. Is the five minutes it takes to setup an import really that big of a concern? It's not like you're forced to stay in the room and watch the progress bar while the import and transcoding is taking place.

The larger file sizes of intermediate formats are obviously a concern, but if you have a machine that's in the ballpark for editing AVCHD natively, then storage is likely not a problem for you either. So if you can transcode your footage into a format that allows you to do your editing work with a smoother computer response (if not real time), then why not?

What windows are you running, 32 bit XP or 32 bit Vista? If so your processor is only running in 32 bit, not 64 bit.

I am running xp pro. The cam is set at the highest res. I bought an imac to see if it works any better than a pc. We will see. It has a 2.8 duo in it and can play the files. Still learning how to edit in I movies.

Bruce;
The Q6600 is famous for being overclockable up to well past 3.0GHz. I have never tried overclocking because of overheating problems that need an extra CPU fan, but I intend to as soon as I get around to building my next computer. I suspect overclocking will be very useful with AVCHD.

I have a Panasonic SD5 AVCHD camcorder. My existing 3GHz P4 would edit very satisfactorily using the Panasonic software that came with the camera. It is cuts-only (actually a playlist of existing files) creates a disc which plays on the computer, or can be copied back to SD card to play in the camera. The disc also plays fine through the camera or in a BR player.

I picked up Pinnacle plus 11 for half price from a Best Buy Sunday ad. It was not advertised as such at the store - but rang up at $50. It would not even play files in my P4.

I ended up building a Q6600 computer overclocked to 3.0GHz with an overclocked Invidia 8800GTS video board. It runs flight simulator well too!

That did the trick! I can see where the very easy-to-use Panasonic software could meet the needs of many. In fact, you don't even need a computer with the bundled burner. I'm afraid more flexible editing is going to require a computer upgrade!

Good luck,

That's an avenue I need to look into. I am seeing comments on forums and hearing that the Q6600 in the Dell XPS 420 series is on a mother board that is locked with respect to overclocking. I'll be contacting Dell for info on that.

Thanks.

I have set my HF10 to 1440x1080 at 12Mbps because Final Cut Studio cannot handle the full 1920x1080 resolution. If I import the movies into iMovie to transcode the AVCHD file into MOV files (for import into FCE), it takes forever on my dual-core Mac Book Pro with 2.4GHz processor and 2GB RAM. Importing about an hour of footage takes up to 3 hours in my computer. As said before, it's best you don't sit in front of your computer and watch the status bar. It takes about the same amount of time to import the footage on my dual-processor Mac G5 2GHz 2 GB RAM computer.

Now, what's even more important is that the generated MOV files are huge. I had to purchase two 1 TB Lacie Big Disk Firewire 800 hard drives (one to store the footage and edit, one for backup) to be able to store and handle the footage.

So again, my 2.4 GHz dual-core and my 2 GHz dual-processor machines can handle everything just fine, but takes some time.

Are you using an older version of FCS? The current FCP 6 seems to handle 1920 x 1080 just fine.

Sorry, that was a typo. I use Final Cut EXPRESS.

great to hear
 

I was just wondering about this since I have a same G5, about to get a MBP and my first AVCHD camera. Thanks for the info.

so when apple says you need an intel based to work with AVCHD they mean NATIVE AVCHD, right?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305997

Stefan..what about after those 3hrs per hour of footage? do you have to render a lot? any real time effects? slow scrubbing? any problems?

wuao...I see...big files....means more $$$$$

I'm debating between my first MBP or go for the Mac Pro...also I wonder if my be better to go straight to P2. I wonder if the $$$ will even out between P2 cards and faster computer with a lot of storage for AVCHD.

Any advice, opinions?

Thanks again.

Osmany

That is not correct. None of Apple's software products are capable of working with AVCHD nateively. You have to transcode to either AIC or preferably one of the two variants of ProRes 422.

If you weren't already aware, you can download all of FCP's documentation (other than the Help content) from Apple's web site. The document "Final Cut Pro 6 Working With High Definition and Broadcast Formats" would probably be of particular interest to you along with User Manual Appendix called "Video Formats Supported by Final Cut Pro."

http://www.apple.com/support/manuals/finalcutpro/

As for performance, you may want to take a quick look at my recent experience at an Apple store. I didn't play with the same machines you are considering but my experience may give you a bit of perspective of where the options may stand relative to each other.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....83&postcount=6

Also Intel has just announced they will be slashing prices yet again on the current Duo and Quadcore lines in the 3rd quarter, meaning you could get a Quadcore Q6600 for under $200 very soon if you would want do build your own system...My Q6600 Quad handles the AVCHD format easily with no need for overclocking whatsoever, and with the price of RAM being so cheap I just upgraded to 8Gig in my Vista 64Bit rig, this will help even further....

Specs:
Camcorder Canon HG10
Vista Ultimate 64Bit
MSI P65N Sli MB
Quadcore Q6600 2.4
8Gig DDR2 XMS800
8800GTX 768Mb
400Gig SATA 3 HD
320Gig SATA 3 HD
2- Liteon Lightscribe 20X DVD+R/-R
Auzentech 7.1 Prelude Soundcard
600 Watt PS
Software- Vegas 8Pro, Pinnacle 11 Ultimate, Nero 8

I get it now
 

Thanks a lot Bill. I get it now...very clear.

Thanks

Osmany Tellez

Yeah, I tried the mac and now will return the mac. It destroyed my video in the conversion to .mov, though it worked fine when I installed windows and used the pixela software. However, if I am going to run windows I might as well just get a PC. Thinking about getting a dell quad core with a blue ray writer. I will report back.

My 5-6 year old HP laptop got to where it couldn't keep up much anymore so I just got in a replacement Dell Inspiron 1525 with Intel Core2 Duo T7250 processor at 2.0GHz clock speed. 3GB of RAM and integrated graphics (no separate card).

I haven't tried it with 1920x1080 AVCHD yet but it does handle 1440x1080 just fine with Pinnacle Studio 11.1.2 plus.

While it would be nice to use the full quality of some of these cams, 1440x1080 looks at least as clear and sharp as HDV and I think that's what I'll work with for now as I can edit with either the desktop or on location with the laptop.

I am really disappointed in my mac experience. First the transcode into imovie created some nasty artifacts. Yes I have not used Final Cut Pro (FCP) but I am not getting led up the hill any further. I am going to return this machine and build a super windows based machine for $500 less and be able to work natively in an OS I am familiar with. I don't understand the love for mac.

On another note, does anyone have a suggestion for video cards? I can get 2 2400 pros w/ 256 memory working together for cheap, but would it be better to get a 2600 XT with 512 and a higher processor instead?

Also, for you pinnacle users, is there a way to import .mts clips already dlded to a hard drive rather than from the cam?

I pull the SDHC card out of the camera, insert it into a reader, plug that into a USB port and copy the .mts files directly into a project folder under Pinnacle on my hard drive. (Canon HF100, for the HF10 if clips are on the internal memory you are supposed to be able to copy then internally over to an SDHC card).

To make things easier when editing I review and rename those from the 0000.mts format to something that means something to me. On a current Ft. Chadbourne project all cavalry clips are renamed to cav001.mts, cav002.mts and so on. Other subjects are treated the same way and then I group each subject into it's own sub folder.

Then all I have to do is tell Pinnacle where to look for the specific subject clips and they show up as thumbnails with the names that give me a further clue as to what they are.

I never have to download from the cam, I love the simplicity of that part of the workflow.

And Pinnacle just announced version 12. One of the improvements is supported authoring to real BluRay disk media. Registered Pinnacle users are offered a discounted upgrade.

Bruce where did you read this my friend, have been to pinnacle but cant see anything about 12 :(

Ross

I didn't get the email some did. But when I fired up Studio yesterday to work on a project, a dialog box with the notice appeared.

I found this on one of the forums at pinnaclesys.com:

Studio 12 upgrade preorder info:

Guys

The only available information regarding Studio 12 is what is contained in the pre-order email that was sent to registered user that sign-up for our newsletter. More information will be available soon from our web site but I do not have a date.



If you are in the U.S. you can pre-order at:



http://www.pinnaclesys.com/studio12preorder



or contact our US Sales department at: (866) 446-0833


Thanks
Jon T
Pinnacle Tech Support

For anyone reading this who is not a registered Pinnacle Studio owner, the discounted upgrade will install ONLY if a previous version is detected or if you have a disk from a previous version to insert when prompted.

I too don't understand the love for Mac when it comes to video. Yes, in the old days they were probably the way to go, but with the huge strides in the Windows environment and the multiple editing choices you have, I don't see why I'd want to be handcuffed to essentially one program.

The other thing is that anytime I've played with Macs (even the high power units), they seem slow compared to the results I get with Edius Pro in the Windows environment. But each to his own I guess.

I tried few days ago on vaio with Core2 Duo T7500 processor at 2.2GHz clock speed,with GeForce 8600M GS graphic card and 3GB of RAM to convert without any effects raw AVCHD file from HF10 1920x1080,about 2 mins long on same version of pinnacle to blu-ray mpeg file.
Pinnacle just stopped rendering after about 500 frames and only possibility was to close it.

Tried then on same laptrop same rendering on trial of Vegas 8 pro,it finished rendering in 5 mins without problem.

Seems pinnacle can done it on more powerful machines only,but vegas can on this laptop too,I'll buy full vegas version rather then new computer.

Pinnacle is ok for HDV,slow a bit too on my laptop,but ok for its price.

Does Pinnacle recompress AVCHD or it'll be able to find and cut at I-frames only when I put my HF10 footage onto the timeline? Any ideas on how it works?
I just got my Canon HF10 and trying to figure out simpliest possible way to trim clips with no quality loss.

Thanks.

I was wondering the same thing. If it doesn't transcode, then how can it edit to anything other than I-frames?

I am just wondering, does anyone use a crossfire or sli system, or is this overkill? I am considering motherboards with X38 and P35 chipsets and see no difference other than crossfire support (X38 has PCI 2.0 support). I am wondering if there are any gains to using two video cards rather than one in video editing. Right now I have settled on a Asus P5K3 Deluxe/WiFi-AP with a Q9300 2.5 g quad core (overclocked to 3.0), an ATI 3870 OC edition with 1 gig of memory, 2 gigs of DDR3 1333 mhz memory (OCZ), a raptor for my OS, a seagate 7200.10 for my program files, and 2 7200.10(in a sata raid) for my media files. Just want to know if maybe I should get a x38 board instead, but that seems more appropriate for gaming, not editing.

Let me know.
Regards,
Mario

anyone? I would appreciate help.

My system:

Quad Q6600 OC'd to 3.3Ghz
4MB Ram
Nvidia 8800GTX 768mb
Sound Blaster Fatl1ty
Big HD

It won't edit AVCHD in Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 11.1. If I start to add titles and transitions I just get an out of memory error and the program shuts down.

I have Studio 12 on pre-order from Amazon and will see how that handles AVCHD (1920x1080).

In the meantime I'll set the camera lower, either that or edit in Vegas first to transcode it to something that Pinnacle will allow my low spec (joke there) machine handle.

Rich

Rich

I have same pinnacle version and it work on c2duo vaio laptop,with 3gb of RAM on vista,but very slow.

Try PowerDirector 7 Ultra trial,I bought it today after 20 days playing with.

It is MUCH faster soft even on my laptop and with similar possibilities as pinnacle.

I tested to convert 1 hour of native HF10 AVCHD to blu-ray HD at full CBR ,it finished in 3 hours,mean on your machine it can be even in real time.

BTW pinnacle if not crash and close need about 10 hours for that on my laptop,that is reason why I bought PowerDirector 7.
Big difference is in importing AVCHD files,pinnacle need 10 times more time than PowerDirector for that too.

There's nothing hard about frame accurate editing of AVCHD as it's been done with MPEG-2 for almost five years.

Folks may not like transcoding to AIC on the Mac -- which does NOT cause any lose in quality -- but from the comments here the so-called native solutions on the PC either don't work or require CPUs not in laptops.

Mac solutions work perfectly with AVCHD by converting to AIC. EDIUS does so by converting to their own HQ codec. Vegas can use CineForm. Maybe Premiere for the PC can do so with CineForm.

I'd like to know if anyone IS EDITING NATIVE AVCHD?

By edit I don't mean simply play a clip in the timeline. Or, do cuts-only editing. I mean realtime color correction of clips. I mean realtime dissolves and wipes and titling. And, by realtime, I don't mean jerky 5fps playback. I mean smooth 30fps playback.

I don't think it can be done on any system by any NLE.

Nevertheless, I'd love to hear how close you can get to this goal.

It certainly sounds like Pinnacle is converting AVCHD to something. Importing is just reading the files. Something sounds very wrong here.

Where does Pinnacle claim it uses NATIVE for editing?

I copied this from their site :
"Among the first to offer native HDV and AVCHD editing software, Pinnacle Systems Studio Plus..."

Obviously they understand NATIVE as some different than we think.
Maybe Pinnacle not convert AVCHD but analyzing it TOO long,maybe on faster machines it is fast,will try when buy quaD desktop,just i'm not in my country at the moment and laptop is only solution for me.

PowerDirector 7 Ultra can do cut only editing fast,without re-encoding AVCHD file,except in specific cases,which you can read on their site.

My vaio is with blu-ray burner,thats why i convert to blu-ray HD with 32MB/s CBR.

OK I have built my machine and have tried Pinnacle, and while I can edit and add plug-in FX it takes way too long. I am going to try Vegas and Premiere to see if they are any faster. Here is my build, let me know what you think.

Asus P5K3 Deluxe
q9300 runing at 400 fsb (3.1 ghz)
2 gigs of OCZ Gold DDR3 1333 mhz (I have 4 gigs but am wondering if I should go with a reaper or platinum version)
ATI HD3870 OC edition with 1 gig of ram
Windows XP pro

Like I said I thought this should have been a barn-burner. Now I am thinking I should have gone with a server with 2-4 processors. This is ridiculous.

Regards,
Mario

I think you got it! Liquid analyses MPEG-2 files and builds a file of information it later uses. Maybe for editing. Maybe for GOP Splicing during export.

Question about your BD VAIO.

I'm interested in a Sony with BD burner. Can you tell us more about your experience and HOW you burn discs?

PS: Looks like you need a newer BD player that supports PROFILE 1.3 to play BD-RE.

I think CineForm is the only way to edit AVCHD using Premiere.

Let us know your results.

PS: Sony claims to edit AVCHD just like you edit MPEG-2 takes 8X more compute power.

I have Q9450, 8G RAM, Vista 64, 250 Boot, 250G Temp/Preview/projects and two 750G for storage. Vegas 8 will play AVCHD on the timeline much like HDV when Preview is set to auto. In this mode it will give priority to the program not the preview so occasionally it will drop a frame just like it does for anything that is on the timeline. Playing a 1440x1080i from an SR7 on the timeline shows all 4 cores at about 60% so there is some room left.

Ron Evans

Just got Pinnacle 12 Ultimate upgrade, still getting on average about 9-12 FPS rendering a AVCHD project with my Q6600 Quad Vista Ultimate 64Bit setup,still its very stable and editing my AVCHD footage is still really easy, still waiting for Sony to release its updates for Vegas 8 so I can play with it some more....