auto focus: sometimes missing focus

Martyn Hull · May 4th, 2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

Depends on your delivery format too.
Here are two 5 min shorts for web, shot at the same location:

Shot with EX1 1080i HQ on tripod
Ghosts

Shot with SR12 on monopod
The Ceremony

Overall, they are pretty close to my eye.

You bet considering the EX film seemed a sunnier day and was on a tripod there is
very little difference.

Ron Evans · May 4th, 2009, 07:36 AM

Shot another show with the SR11 and XR500 side by side. SR11 set as usual, manual exposure, Spot focus, and the XR500 in full auto again. After now doing three shows the XR500 in full auto reacts of course to blackouts taking time to reset focus and exposure however in the blackout the grain is almost non existent as viewed on my Panasonic plasma!!! So it seems the focus is the main issue. I would love a menu item that held focus until detail was again available!!!! Exposure does tend to be a little too much but correctable in post as it has not lost the detail in the highlights. I am really looking to use the XR500 as a third unattended camera for one man shoots and I think with AE shift set at -1 or -2 it would work in full auto as I can ignore the blackout issue having two more cameras on full manual. Will try that in a couple of weeks.
Maybe Sony will come out with a replacement for the FX7, between these single chip models and the FX1000!!!! Ever hopeful.

Ron Evans

Robert Young · May 5th, 2009, 01:51 AM

Whoa... I just got the XR 520 today & did some night shots.
Very dramatic blacks w/ no noise. SR12 could never do that.
Makes the difference b/t usable footage and crap. Even if the shot is dark, you can work it in post & get something decent. If it is full of noise, you're sunk.
Amazing camera.
Thanks to all for the info & encouragement!!

Dave Blackhurst · May 6th, 2009, 11:24 AM

That's what I noticed in test footage I found around the web before jumping. Crisp clean blacks where they were supposed to be, and little or no "creepy crawly" noise signature.

The SR11 was "good" (no complaints about anything I shot with it, though low light was less than I "wanted"), but the XR500 is simply stunning. Sony did some good magic here, and in "real world" shooting, it makes for a very useable camera with a stunningly clean image by comparison to any other I've shot. I'd guess that an EX or higher end Z could "beat it", but at many multiples of the cost and a much less portable format... and I suspect the competition would be far closer than the difference in price would suggest!

Enjoy the new toy!

Ken Ross · May 9th, 2009, 01:33 PM

Dave, I actually did an A/B between the 500 and my Z5 and it was shocking. The noise on the 500 is virtually non-existant. At first I thought Sony just cut the gain, but no, I could see it was sitting at 18db, but no noise! Pretty amazing and unprecedented.

I will say the Z5 image, despite having somewhat more noise (not objectionable), was quite a bit brighter. But it is something to see a very low light image with virtually no noise.

Ron Evans · May 9th, 2009, 03:04 PM

I too am very pleased with the XR500. Just can't wait to see what Sony will do with this technology in a more capable camera.

Ron Evans

Robert Young · May 9th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

I too am very pleased with the XR500. Just can't wait to see what Sony will do with this technology in a more capable camera.

Ron Evans

It's hard to second guess Sony's M.O., but I bet they could use this technology to make a cam with a single 1/2" chip, data rate of 25 mbs, similar controls as the Z, in a package around the size of the PD-170, maybe a little smaller, for $2,500-$3,000.
That should jolt the marketplace.

Dave Blackhurst · May 9th, 2009, 08:32 PM

I think it's strange that Sony released the "R" sensor as their top of the line consumer cam and apparently hasn't taken advantage of the improvements in the pro/prosumer range... I would think the tech in the XR would make their higher end invincible.

Ken - not surprised to hear that the XR holds up well against the Z5, I'd rather have clean rather than a bit more "bright" - I can always bump a clean image in post, a noisy image is just noisy... and the XR is amazingly clean even in low light - even low lux mode isn't that bad, and it can almost see in the dark.

No doubt 3 "R" CMOS or a bigger single chip with the same processing and basic manual control and they would knock things sideways - they really should have something to compete with the HMC150...

The more I play with the XR the more I like it, it just feels like a very capable package and between spot focus and the exposure button/knob I don't feel overly held back. Sure it would be nice to have more control, but I'm concluding that good auto results and easy override when needed make for a good cam. Frankly I'm going to wait and see what Sony does in a larger cam before getting anything bigger.

I'm going to try their little superzoom DSC HX1 out of curiousity - looks like they took the same design approach and I've seen some decent video clips too. The field reports sound like it's along the same lines - very advanced auto capabilities with low noise.

It's very odd when the cutting edge tech is being put in the "consumer" gear, and you can get excellent results almost more easily than a "pro" cam - seems almost backwards!

Ron Evans · May 9th, 2009, 09:29 PM

I had thought about changing my FX1 or just getting another 3 chip so that I would have the FX1, SR11 plus a new one. But having thought about the FX1000 I decided to get the XR500 and I am glad I did. I will certainly wait and see if this technology is put into something with a little more control preferably full 1920x1080 AVCHD at 25mbps max so that there is a full AVCHD set for me!!!! An AVCHD version of the FX1000/Z5 with three of these R sensors, 240G hard drive/dual slot memory stick, etc would be just the ticket and would certainly give the HMC150 a lot of competition. Dreaming is great!!!

Ron Evans

Dave Blackhurst · May 9th, 2009, 10:08 PM

DROOL!

He he he...

I think you made a good choice with the XR, I swapped out my SR11 and CX12 fleet once I tried it. Snagged a couple at good prices and had some coupons... Plus the SR and CX are still great cameras with good demand!

Still would like to find a bigger camera for "show", but I'm just waiting for Sony to make the camera we all agree would be the category killer... Sony should hire us!

Somehow I can't quite get my head around spending 2-3X the $$ for fairly minimal improvements in image quality, and I think the XR really closed the gap on so many fronts, Sony needs to get a little progressive on their high end stuff. I could see the XR outperforming much more expensive cameras under a lot of "real world day-to day" shooting conditions, which I guess makes excellent sense for a "consumer" camera, but it sure ups the ante!

May 5th, 2009, 01:51 AM	#18
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Whoa... I just got the XR 520 today & did some night shots. Very dramatic blacks w/ no noise. SR12 could never do that. Makes the difference b/t usable footage and crap. Even if the shot is dark, you can work it in post & get something decent. If it is full of noise, you're sunk. Amazing camera. Thanks to all for the info & encouragement!! __________________ Bob

May 4th, 2009, 07:36 AM	#17
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Shot another show with the SR11 and XR500 side by side. SR11 set as usual, manual exposure, Spot focus, and the XR500 in full auto again. After now doing three shows the XR500 in full auto reacts of course to blackouts taking time to reset focus and exposure however in the blackout the grain is almost non existent as viewed on my Panasonic plasma!!! So it seems the focus is the main issue. I would love a menu item that held focus until detail was again available!!!! Exposure does tend to be a little too much but correctable in post as it has not lost the detail in the highlights. I am really looking to use the XR500 as a third unattended camera for one man shoots and I think with AE shift set at -1 or -2 it would work in full auto as I can ignore the blackout issue having two more cameras on full manual. Will try that in a couple of weeks. Maybe Sony will come out with a replacement for the FX7, between these single chip models and the FX1000!!!! Ever hopeful. Ron Evans

May 6th, 2009, 11:24 AM	#19
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	That's what I noticed in test footage I found around the web before jumping. Crisp clean blacks where they were supposed to be, and little or no "creepy crawly" noise signature. The SR11 was "good" (no complaints about anything I shot with it, though low light was less than I "wanted"), but the XR500 is simply stunning. Sony did some good magic here, and in "real world" shooting, it makes for a very useable camera with a stunningly clean image by comparison to any other I've shot. I'd guess that an EX or higher end Z could "beat it", but at many multiples of the cost and a much less portable format... and I suspect the competition would be far closer than the difference in price would suggest! Enjoy the new toy!

May 9th, 2009, 01:33 PM	#20
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Dave, I actually did an A/B between the 500 and my Z5 and it was shocking. The noise on the 500 is virtually non-existant. At first I thought Sony just cut the gain, but no, I could see it was sitting at 18db, but no noise! Pretty amazing and unprecedented. I will say the Z5 image, despite having somewhat more noise (not objectionable), was quite a bit brighter. But it is something to see a very low light image with virtually no noise.

May 9th, 2009, 03:04 PM	#21
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I too am very pleased with the XR500. Just can't wait to see what Sony will do with this technology in a more capable camera. Ron Evans

May 9th, 2009, 08:32 PM	#23
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	I think it's strange that Sony released the "R" sensor as their top of the line consumer cam and apparently hasn't taken advantage of the improvements in the pro/prosumer range... I would think the tech in the XR would make their higher end invincible. Ken - not surprised to hear that the XR holds up well against the Z5, I'd rather have clean rather than a bit more "bright" - I can always bump a clean image in post, a noisy image is just noisy... and the XR is amazingly clean even in low light - even low lux mode isn't that bad, and it can almost see in the dark. No doubt 3 "R" CMOS or a bigger single chip with the same processing and basic manual control and they would knock things sideways - they really should have something to compete with the HMC150... The more I play with the XR the more I like it, it just feels like a very capable package and between spot focus and the exposure button/knob I don't feel overly held back. Sure it would be nice to have more control, but I'm concluding that good auto results and easy override when needed make for a good cam. Frankly I'm going to wait and see what Sony does in a larger cam before getting anything bigger. I'm going to try their little superzoom DSC HX1 out of curiousity - looks like they took the same design approach and I've seen some decent video clips too. The field reports sound like it's along the same lines - very advanced auto capabilities with low noise. It's very odd when the cutting edge tech is being put in the "consumer" gear, and you can get excellent results almost more easily than a "pro" cam - seems almost backwards!

May 9th, 2009, 09:29 PM	#24
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I had thought about changing my FX1 or just getting another 3 chip so that I would have the FX1, SR11 plus a new one. But having thought about the FX1000 I decided to get the XR500 and I am glad I did. I will certainly wait and see if this technology is put into something with a little more control preferably full 1920x1080 AVCHD at 25mbps max so that there is a full AVCHD set for me!!!! An AVCHD version of the FX1000/Z5 with three of these R sensors, 240G hard drive/dual slot memory stick, etc would be just the ticket and would certainly give the HMC150 a lot of competition. Dreaming is great!!! Ron Evans

May 9th, 2009, 10:08 PM	#25
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	DROOL! He he he... I think you made a good choice with the XR, I swapped out my SR11 and CX12 fleet once I tried it. Snagged a couple at good prices and had some coupons... Plus the SR and CX are still great cameras with good demand! Still would like to find a bigger camera for "show", but I'm just waiting for Sony to make the camera we all agree would be the category killer... Sony should hire us! Somehow I can't quite get my head around spending 2-3X the $$ for fairly minimal improvements in image quality, and I think the XR really closed the gap on so many fronts, Sony needs to get a little progressive on their high end stuff. I could see the XR outperforming much more expensive cameras under a lot of "real world day-to day" shooting conditions, which I guess makes excellent sense for a "consumer" camera, but it sure ups the ante!