In the world of Vimeo/YouTube does 60 fps mean anything?

[Jim Cancil]

... I am dim as a 20watts bulb. Partially, because I make grips not video. I make grips that attach a variety of pocket cams to kitesurfing kites and boards.

My question expanded: when one simply uses iMovie or one of the very basic editing software and then posts the result as HD at Vimeo or YouTube... can the typical civilian see the difference between 720 60 fps and 30 fps?

I tried real hard to read/understand the posting below about 50i ..50p, etc.. but my limited intelligence is in eye-to-hands, not right brain to left.

The reason I ask.. Kodak has just released a $100, waterproof (WP) cam 720 30 fps. Their prior WP models had an option of either 720 60 or 30 fps. The more popular cams from GoPro or Contour offer 60 fps. at 3X the cost. I appreciate your indulgence at such a basic question. Cheers.

Jim

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Jim Cancil

My question expanded: when one simply uses iMovie or one of the very basic editing software and then posts the result as HD at Vimeo or YouTube... can the typical civilian see the difference between 720 60 fps and 30 fps?

I'll start from that there are frames per second and fields per second, and they are not the same, frames are progressive (1080P) and fields are interlaced (1080i), and there are reasons to film in progressive and interlaced;
I assume we're talking about progressive footage (60/30P),
No, you can't tell 60p from 30p on the web, you can go lower than 30fps selecting source fps during upload (ie 24fps), although I am not sure that it still will not be converted to 30P, but not higher (60p), and as far as i know Vimeo and Youtube converts everything to 30p,
the main advantage of having 60P video mode is ability to slow your video down to 50% and have smooth slowmo 30p video; to slow down video shot in 30p you will need additional software like twixtor, and result will be not as good;

[Jim Cancil]

Aaaaaah .. so maybe that is what they mean when 60 fps is better for sports ..because then they can dial it back to 30 fps and have it look normal. ...if 24 or 30 is considered normal.

To proof my gizmos - I simply clip 2min of an hour in QT .. import into iMovie '09 and output it for YouTube. I rely on the camera to do the work of looking good. ...thanks Buba.

Jim

[Shaun Roemich]

720P60 looks RADICALLY different than 720P30 on a video monitor being played back at P60 and P30 respectively.

As much as these words are bandied about and are pretty much nonsense, the EASIEST way I've found to explain it is 720P60 looks "hyper real", 720P30 looks "kind of video/normal with a hint of cinematic" and 720P24 can have a "cinematic quality" to it.

Accurate? Not really but there are significant differences when watching on a video monitor. What happens to the frame rate when it gets converted for web viewing is another factor.

I PERSONALLY prefer 720P60 over 720P30 for conversion to 480i60 standard def for DVDs if I am looking for a "normal" video look.

[Jim Cancil]

Shaun.. consider the density here when I ask .. but,

A) Is what you call a 'video monitor' substantially different from the typical PC or iMac screen? We plebes think you guys have a 60" Pixar Studio to work with when I'm stuck on the first rung of iMovie watching on an iMac.

B) Does 60 fps playback in Ouicktime automatically when it was recorded originally in 60 fps? (there is no Preference selection on my iMac for QT)

C) This is a copy/paste from YouTube: "Frame Rate - The video frame-rate should be the same as the original where possible. For film sources, a 24 fps or 25 fps progressive master yields the best results, while videos that have had a re-sampling transfer process applied — i.e. a Telecine pulldown — often result in a lower quality video."

...another from a OT specific posting: "Frame Rate: 30 is preferred. 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 are also acceptable."

Does this mean 60 is wasted?

Jim

[Jack Zhang]

I know Posterous retains 60p when it converts videos for your blog posts. It down-resolutions, but it keeps 60p. I also know for a fact that 60p (if the video is strictly 500px wide) will play on an iPad, iPhone and etc and retain 60p.

However, yes, Vimeo and YouTube both cap the framerate at 30p.

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

720P60 looks RADICALLY different than 720P30 on a video monitor being played back at P60 and P30 respectively.

oh yeah, but the question was if you can tell the difference after youtube/vimeo conversion

[Jack Zhang]

Only after a Posterous conversion can you tell the difference since it doesn't cap framerate at 30 frames. On Vimeo and YouTube, they cap it at 30.