Playstation 3 now plays AVCHD "files".
 

Anyone willing to test this new feature?

I tried the Motion JPEG last night and it worked fine, but it was scaled up. The original was from a 320x240 shot on a Canon Optura 30.

I've also tried the a 24p AVC file from a Canon HV20. The file comes from the HV20 forum ("Larry's") which was originally encoded as a Quicktime .mov. I changed it to a .mp4 by doing a Save As from MPEG Streamclip - I think this is the same thing as AVCHD. It looks amazing, but there was a glitch at the end of the recording.

Jack if you can get me instruction how to burn AVCHD DVD from a Mac, I can test this. Sony software comes for Windows only so I'm screwed.

I think you re-name the .MTS file on the HDD of your camera after you transfer it to .m2ts. You then put it on a flash drive, memory stick (60GB models only), or data DVD and play it back on a 1.60 PS3.

Of course, when you're creating the data DVD, you're not creating a real AVCHD disc. But I think that's the only way if you have an HDD camera and a Mac.

If you have a DVD camera, just pop the disc it created directly into the PS3.

Jack,

I'll try tonight. I did tried to put .MTS on usb flash but I didn't rename to .m2ts.

I'll let you know.

Jack,

I copy/rename MTS to .m2ts on a USB flash. PS3 couldn't see it. from some other source tell me that I must also copy the .THM file with it. will try that tonight.

and... I may try to hook the camera directly into PS3, see what happen.

btw,
if someone can show me how AVCHD DVD structure look like, that would be great.

I burnt an AVCHD DVD-R a few nights ago and it worked very well. The structure on the DVD-R is:

E:\BDMV\index.bdmv
E:\BDMV\MovieObject.bdmv
E:\BDMV\BACKUP\ <Empty>
E:\BDMV\CLIPINF\00000.clpi
\00001.clpi
\00002.clpi
\...
\00019.clpi
E:\BDMV\PLAYLIST\00000.mpls
E:\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts
\00001.m2ts
\00002.m2ts
\...
\00019.m2ts

I found that there was a slight pause between scenes which is a shame but I should think that a firmware update on the PS3 will fix this.

you need to press triangle when you've selected the flash drive in "Video" and select "Display all" to make the file show up.

http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...hangeview.html

Jack,

yes I did that "Display all" and browse to the folder. it didn't show up.

I hooked the camcorder direct to PS3. it showed USB (camcorder) and can play my MPEG2 clips but the MTS still didn't show. Again I also did the display all.

I have a recent firmware 1.32 on my PS3, not the latest though. I'm not sure the AVCHD is in that version or not.

Mark Boreham, thanks for the AVCHD layout. I'll try to burn one disc and see if it can play or not.

Thu N. Nguyen

You need to update to 1.60 to enable playback of AVCHD files. There's your problem, you did not update.

I took some of the footage posted from the Sony V1 (m2t) and put it on a USB memory stick.... put the stick into the PS3 and it played back perfect
so I know it works now... no special file structure, now I'm wondering if
you could put the same on a CD and it would play....

I'll play with that in the next day or so...

Ray,

what firmware do you have on PS3? is it latest 1.60 ?

yes its 1.60 on the PS3

got mine upgrade to 1.60 last night and it now plays AVCHD fine without rename to .m2ts

Does anyone know if this works with a quicktime ".mov" file that is H.264? Or if not, how to convert such a file to something the PS3 can play?

thanks,

Nick

I have a PS3 and have been playing raw m2t's and edited m2t's since it has been out of the box. It plays them off of standard data DVD's or off of a usb drive.

It will also play HD mp4's rendered from vegas with the main concept mp4 encoder.

It will not play half of the mp4 hd trailors from apple.com or even recognize them. When I load them in vegas to re-render to another media type vegas won't recognize the audio.

Thanks for the info. I am coming from HDV footage (on a Sony FX1) and exporting from Final Cut Express (still on 3.0)

I have done a bit of research and I think I can make Quicktime re-export the H.264 ".mov" file as an MP4/H.264 and in theory that should work.

Found some other (more complex) tutorials also.

I bought the PS3 mainly to be able to play my HD home videos and picture slidshows in HD. and it is worth it just for that to me. But I cant wait for GTA4 .

Just incase some of you don’t know it yet, the PS3’s firmware was just recently upgraded to 1.7.

Canon HG10 24p files?
 

Hi all,

I realize this thread has been stagnant for a while, but I recently purchased a Canon HG10 and I'm wondering if it's worth it for me to pick up a PS3 for playback. I don't have one yet and was wondering if someone who did would be willing to try some test files out on their PS3 for me.

Ideally, it would be someone who has a PS3 hooked to a true 1920x1080 display that supports true 1080p24, and someone who knows what all this means. The HG10 AVCHD 24p files are 24p frames telecined inside the 60i fields. I'd like to know if the PS3 can inverse telecine the progressive frames out of the stream correctly, and then whether it's capable of sending it out at a true 1080p24 rate.

Let me know and I'll whip something up.

Thanks!

mike@slavis.com

I can verify that the PS3 does playback 24p files from this camcorder but my HD TV isn’t 1920X1080. Sorry, it’s the best I can do until I win the lottery and buy myself a Sony XBR4. That TV would be perfect for this test.

Thanks...
 

Paulo,

Thanks for the info. Based on your feedback and that of another forum member who contacted me privately, I feel comfortable that the PS3 will play these files back.

In fact, I went out and bought one yesterday, and I can now verify personally that it works (I got a "discontinued" PS3 60GB [the last one they had] for $400 after a $100 rebate from FYE - For Your Entertainment - at my local mall). Updated to latest firmware, 2.00, as well.

One thing that was confusing to me so I'll spell it out here in case it's messing with someone else's mind - I used HGBackup (comes with the cam) to get the files directly off the cams HDD and copied them exactly to a 2 GB SD card. When I put this card into the PS3 and went to video, chose SD and hit the X button to play, it told me something like "no titles" and wouldn't go any further. This had me head-scratching for a while, I tried a bunch of stuff, and finally figured out that I needed to hit the "option" button on the SD card (Triangle) and tell it to "Display all". Then the PS3 showed me the subdirectories. I treed into BDMV -> Stream and it showed me the .MTS files, which I could then play.

Now, I still don't know if the PS3 can display the 24p video to a 1920x1080p24 display because I don't have one, but I can verify that it certainly worked to my SDTV at 480i (I tested both 60i and 24p). When I get myself a component cable I can test 720p and 1080i, at least. And when I win the lottery (especially after my first foray into HDTV here with the HG10 and PS3), I'll pick up a nice 1920x1080p24 display and give it a proper run-through.

Thanks for listening...

mike@slavis.com

PS3 24p playback when outputting 1080p
 

Has anyone tried having the PS3 play back 24p HG10 files while outputting 720p, 1080p24, 1080p60 to the TV?

Does it correctly do IVTC as when Mike tested with 480i output?

What I am looking to find out specifically is - When the PS3 is playing back 24p AVCHD files and is set to output 1080p to the TV (either 24p or 60p) whether it does so correctly (without jaggies, combing, tearing, etc that appear when the IVTC is not done right)

Mike verified that it correctly did IVTC when the PS3 was outputting 480i but I think that a test at 480i may not neccessarily mean that it does it correctly when outputting at 1080p (I guess a 720p test would be closer) which is what I want to find out.

Thanks.

The PS3 will playback AVCHD at 1080p24 to a supporting monitor. If the video stream is 24p contained within a 60i stream (as Canon 24F is), it's going to playback at 1080i60 unless you force 24p. Although you can do that, it's going to look like crap with an uneven motion cadence because the native stream contains repeat frame flags.

If you can strip the repeat flags and author at the native 24p, the PS3 will play it back properly. Good luck finding an authoring application that doesn't reinsert the repeat flags, which Ulead and Nero do.

To summarize, if you can author it to disk as 24p without the pulldown flags, the PS3 will playback the AVCHD disk at native 1080p24 to a supporting monitor. If you can't, you can still force the PS3 to playback in 1080p24 mode, but if the 24p is contained within a 29.97 stream it will look bad. You have to strip the repeat flags, and use an authoring app that doesn't reinsert them to make it work right.

Hi Tom, I'm not sure I understand why I would need to author the files at all? I am looking to play back the raw M2TS/MTS files, not authored ones.

Currently when I play back raw HG10 files on a windows PC via windows media player to a PC monitor running at 60Hz (coreAVC v1.6 is installed and the deinterlace option is set to hardware because it does not have a deinterlacer off option) the files play back absolutely fine, no combing, jaggies, etc. What I understand is happening is that the 24p stream is being correctly pulled (i.e. correctly IVTC'd and deinterlaced) from the 1080i60 stream and then outputted in a 3:2 frame repeat cadence to the 60Hz monitor.

(Now there is probably some "judder" caused by the fact that the 24p frames are being repeated in a 2:3 cadence to be displayed on a 60Hz monitor but this judder is not really noticable to me and not of particular concern to me because the fix is simple - if the monitor was running at 48 or 72 or 96Hz instead of 60Hz then the frames would be repeated at a cadence of 2:2, 3:3, 4:4 respectively and judder would not be an issue).

So, if the raw files are 24p in a 1080i60 stream and yet they play fine on the PC without any authoring why would the PS3 not be able to do exactly the same when outputting 1080p60? or taking it one step further, let the PS3 output 1080p24 so it doesn't even have to do the 3:2 frame repeat (we can let the TV can handle that).

The question is whether the PS3 can -

1. deinterlace and IVTC the 60i stream correctly (no combing or jaggies) to get the original 24p stream and then
2. output it either at 1080p24 or after doing 3:2 frame repeat at 1080p60?

By "uneven motion cadence" do you mean "judder" caused by frames being repeated with a 3:2 cadence?

Thanks for Listening :)

The PS3 does not normally deinterlace 1080i. The exception is that you can force 24p/60p playback, but it judders if the stream has pulldown.

The PS3 does deinterlace 480i, just like any other progressive scan DVD player.

The PS3 will pass through true 24p as with a Hollywood movie, but not 24p from a Canon camcorder because the latter is carried inside a 1080i stream with pulldown.

It will still playback Canon 24F/P without jaggies or combing in 1080i mode, because the stream contains progressively encoded frames instead of 540 line fields.

Yes, I am talking about forced 24p/60p playback. (Have you done this yourself?) In that case I am assuming the PS3 will "correctly" IVTC and deinterlace the 24p stream out of the 60i stream and the result will be combing/jaggies free (which I understand is normally caused by incorrect deinterlacing or rather more accurately - not IVTC'ing correctly before deinterlacing). By judder, if you are talking about uneven (3:2) frame repeat then that's not an issue I am bothered with especially when the PS3 outputs 24p to a 48Hz (2:2 frame repeat) or 72Hz (3:3) plasma TV that can accepts 24p.

I'm not expecting it to pass through 24p. I understand that that's only on 24p source material like Blu-ray disc, while the HG10 files are different in that they are 24p in 60i. Hence I am expecting (and hoping) that it IVTCs and deinterlaces to get that 24p stream.

I would want to avoid having the PS3 output 1080i because the deinterlacers in most TVs fail to correctly detect the 3:2 cadence in 1080i film based material (see the '3:2 Tests' section in - http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1107hook2/ I assume the canon 24F in 60i stream is similar to how film based 24p material is TC'd into 60i in say a 'Discovery HD' 1080i broadcast). And so I would rather have the PS3 do the IVTC and deinterlacing assuming it can do it right. If it can't I would have to take my chances with the TV's deinterlacer but I don't have high hopes for that :)

Hence I was looking for people who have actually played back 24p HG10 files from the PS3 to a progressive display while (forced) outputting 720p, 1080p60, 1080p24....etc.

Paulo Teixeira mentioned he did play back 24p files....if you read this - what format were you outputting?

Yes I have done this. I would not comment if I had not. My TV accepts 1080p24/p60 directly.


My observation of the PS3 24p forced output mode is that it does not correctly IVTC and deinterlace the 24p stream out of the 60i stream. It combs and jags in the forced 24p mode when playing 24p embedded within a 60i stream. I used the term judder loosely before, I'm sorry.


DGPulldown.exe can strip the pulldown flags from the Canon 24p stream. It could be possible to play such a .m2t stream from a flash drive or hard drive with the PS3. Doing it that way, removes the deinterlacing processing from the PS3. I will try this.

That is true about the deinterlacers in many (but not all) TVs failing to correctly detect the 3:2 cadence. But my observation is that the PS3 does not correctly do the IVTC and deinterlacing. I have tried this, and it jags and combs, and has an irregular "beat" or pseudo (not 3:2) judder that can be observed when panning. In summary, it looks horrible. And there's nothing I did wrong. It was simply a native .m2t file played back by the PS3 in forced 24p to a TV that accepts native 1080p24 input.

I have done this (actually with the XH-A1) because I have the same goal in mind. The logical approach is to relieve the responsibility for IVTC and deinterlacing from the PS3, and encode to 24p without the pulldown, thus no deinterlacing would be required. This is very easy to do without rendering. The hurdle is authoring such a stream with affordable tools. I haven't found anything within my budget that authors native 24p to Blu-ray disk. But again, I think it is possible to test the concept by just removing the pulldown from the stream with DGPulldown.exe, and playing back the .m2t stream from a flash drive or the PS3's hard drive.

Just a clarification...

The PS3 does inverse telecine (IVTC) fine. In other words, it can pull up native 1080p24 to 1080i60.

What it doesn't do is reverse-pulldown the 1080i60 3:2 cadence to 1080p24 properly. It won't even try to do this unless you force 24p output mode.

Canon 24p is already IVTC'd to 1080i60. To make it playback properly from the PS3 in 24p output mode, the IVTC needs to be removed. Once that is done, it will not be necessary to "force" the PS3 into 1080p24 output mode. It will just switch to it by default as happens with a Blu-ray movie. (Of course the TV has to support 1080p24 inputs.)

There is confusion about Canon 24p because many NLE's report it as 23.976 frames/sec. Although true, the native stream is already IVTC'd to 29.97. The logical thing to do is to undo the IVTC (strip out the pulldown flags) so that the PS3 does not have to. That way, the PS3 will output 1080p24 by default and won't have to be forced, just as with a Blu-ray disk.

Amit, upon further review the PS3 appears to handle deinterlacing, inverse telecine and 3:2 pulldown/pullup with equal aplomb to my 50 inch 1080p Pioneer Elite plasma, which is one of the TVs on Gary Merson's list that deinterlaces and does 3:2 cadence properly. I basically can't see any difference between letting the TV deinterlace, versus letting the PS3 do it, and the same for 3:2.

24p still looks horrid to me, but I'm coming to the realization that I just suck with it. It needs to be shot very steady, on a tripod, which is counter to my mostly run 'n gun style.

Tom, that's great news. Thanks for taking the time to test this out.

Did you test this with files from the XH-A1? Does it produce a 24p in 1080/60i stream like the HG10 does? i.e. would you expect the results to be the same from HG10 files?

Thanks.

XH-A1 produces 24p in 1080/60i stream, and yes the result would be the same as HG10.

It seems that 24p from the XHA1 is not the same as from the HG10/HV20/HF100 as per this thread - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=118309

If I understand right, is it because the 24p-in-60i stream from the XHA1 has the proper flags for pulldown while that from the others listed above does not.

If that is right then it's possible that the PS3 handles the XHA1 files correctly but results may not be the same with HG10 ones.

So my question regarding the ability of the PS3 being able to correctly deinterlace and IVTC the 60i stream (no combing or jaggies) of HG10 raw MTS files to get the original 24p stream and then output it at either 1080p24 or after doing 3:2 frame repeat at 1080p60 still stands.

so, has anyone tested playback of 24p HG10 files like Tom has confirmed with XHA1 files? Thanks.

Yes Amit, you are correct. I apologize for my gross blunder regarding 24p on HG10.

If anyone can point me to a native HG10 24p clip, I will test the deinterlace and IVTC on the PS3 and Pioneer Elite 1080p plasma monitor.

No prob Tom. Thanks for offering to test this out. Here's Les Dit's HG10 24p raw MTS file which many have used as a reference for testing -

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?...82&postcount=1

The file is played perfectly by the PS3.

The particular 1080p Pioneer plasma I used has been tested by Gary Merson to have proper deinterlacing and IVTC, so I output the file with the PS3 in the following modes:

1.) From the PS3 in 1080p24
2.) From the PS3 in 1080i60 no IVTC by Pioneer monitor
3.) From the PS3 in 1080i60 IVTC'd by the Pioneer monitor 3:2 @60hz
4.) From the PS3 in 1080i60 IVTC'd by the Pioneer monitor 3:3 @72hz

In all cases, the file played perfectly for me, whether the Pioneer monitor was handling the deinterlacing and pulldown removal, or playing directly at 24p from the PS3, it made no difference. It looked the same in all cases.

I didn't see any combing, jaggies, stairstepping, crawling ants or whatever. It was just fine.

That said, it strobes like any 24fps will.

I'm glad this thread came up, I had forgotten the PS3 can play these, if I ever knew that at all. I pulled the SD card from my HF10, popped it in and it played fine.

Great news! Thanks for the detailed testing Tom, much appeciated.

Am getting a 24p capable 1080p plasma soon (possibly the new panny 800u with 24p at 2:2 48Hz) and wanted to know for sure if the PS3 could play back my HG10 24p files.

ok, so I got my 1080p panasonic th50-pz800u plasma and hooked up a PS3 to play the 24p HG10 files via TVersity from a network share and am happy to report that it plays the 24p files flawlessly, no jaggies, combing or stairstepping, etc.

The TV is seeing a 1080p60 input though and not 1080p24 (meaning that the PS3 is IVTC'ing the 24p stream correctly out of the 60i stream and then doing 3:2 frame repeat to bring it to 60p). Not an issue because I am not seeing any 3:2 cadence issues (i don't think I am sensitive to 3:2 cadence), looks just fine.

But i'd like to try having it output 24p and then having the TV work in 2:2 48Hz mode.

Tom, you mentioned that you output the file at 1080p24 from the PS3, how was this done? I only see 1080p24 as an output option under the BD playback options (Settings > BD/DVD settings > BD 1080p 24Hz Output (HDMI)) so am assuming that this would work only via BD/DVD and NOT when playing the file over the network or USB stick.....did you play the files via a DVD (and not USB or network share)? thanks.

Yes, that is correct.

1.) Use TSMuxeR (free) and choose the "Create Blu-ray Disk" option.
2.) TSMuxeR creates 3 folders, BDMV, Certificate and Audio. This structure is an AVCHD "wrapper" that contains Blu-ray authoring of mpeg2 video inside of it.
3.) Use Nero or ImgBurn to burn the folders onto regular UDF 2.5 DVD5/9 disk.
4.) On the PS3, enable 24hz HDMI Output under BD playback options.
5.) Insert the disk. It should autoplay 1080p24.

or...

You can just burn an actual Blu-ray disk if you have the burner and media.

Now the other thing to watch for, are you sure that your AVCHD stream does not already contain 2:3 pulldown flags? If it does, you're going to have to remove them from the stream if you want to see actual 24p output from the PS3.

That's how I do it because I am working with native mpeg2 streams. If your video is native AVCHD, the issue would be if it has 2:3 repeat flags within.

Please follow up here, this is very important.