HDV 720/30P -> DVD & HDV tape on AVID workflow?

[Jiri Bakala]

Hi,

I posted this on the Avid XP forum, so far no takers. Perhaps someone here might have an answer;

I've been searching for the best (or any for that matter) Mac/AXP workflow for HDV1 (720/30P) material to go to SD DVD and also to HDV tape.

1. Going to tape; I tried the 'Export to HDV Device' only to receive errors and incomplete new m2t file. Does the timeline need some extra blank space before and after the video? Also, how does one bring it back to tape?

2. Going to DVD; HDV doesn't allow QT reference (and consequent encoding in iDVD), so I exported uncompressed QT. When that is burned to DVD, the video seems to have elevated levels, colours are washed out and contrast is very low.

I wonder if anyone has a tested and functional workflow. It seems that most people on Avids don't deal with 720/30P HDV and so it is a somewhat 'frontier' territory. Please help.

[Antony Michael Wilson]

Hi Jiri

What flavour of 'uncompressed QT' did you use? What did you use to encode the file to mpeg2?

I have not used HDV1 native in Avid (I'm in UK and Avid still doesn't support 25fps) but I have some good ideas for you, depending on the answer to my questions!

Tony

[Jiri Bakala]

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

Hi Jiri

What flavour of 'uncompressed QT' did you use? What did you use to encode the file to mpeg2?

I have not used HDV1 native in Avid (I'm in UK and Avid still doesn't support 25fps) but I have some good ideas for you, depending on the answer to my questions!

Tony

Hi Tony,

When I encoded to uncompressed QT I used the Avid export and selected everything uncompressed. To encode back to MPEG2 (DVD) I imported the QT into iDVD and let it do the encoding.

I am really interested to hear what workflow you might suggest, as there is little support from Avid on HDV in general.

I am now trying to transcode to DNxHD 145 -> QT REF -> MPEG2. Who know if this will work...

Also, how do you go about exporting the material back to HDV tape?

Thank you.

[Jiri Bakala]

Okay, here are some results of my battles to get a decent DVD out of an HDV project in Avid. First, what works: exporting selfcontained QT encoded with RGB, same as source -> iDVD

What doesn't work is exporting the project from Avid as QT REF; of course, HDV cannot be exported as QT REF, so I tried to go through all available transcodes - DVCPRO HD, DNxHD75 and DNxHD110. When the resulting QT REF is used in iDVD, the image looks washed out with elevated blacks and lowered contrast. And that is regardless of whether the export setting is in RGB or 601/709.

So, yes, there is a workflow, but it isn't ideal, constituting two encodes and taking a long time. Anyone has another solution? (We are talking Mac/AXP here).

[Gary Williams]

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala

Okay, here are some results of my battles to get a decent DVD out of an HDV project in Avid. First, what works: exporting selfcontained QT encoded with RGB, same as source -> iDVD

What doesn't work is exporting the project from Avid as QT REF; of course, HDV cannot be exported as QT REF, so I tried to go through all available transcodes - DVCPRO HD, DNxHD75 and DNxHD110. When the resulting QT REF is used in iDVD, the image looks washed out with elevated blacks and lowered contrast. And that is regardless of whether the export setting is in RGB or 601/709.

So, yes, there is a workflow, but it isn't ideal, constituting two encodes and taking a long time. Anyone has another solution? (We are talking Mac/AXP here).

Ask Stephen Noe he is the Avid specialist on this forum.

[Panos Bournias]

Jiri, what I do, and never had any complains for the quality of the DVD, I export an M2t file or from "Clip" Export to HDV Devise - back to tape, or from "File" Export to Disc.
I choose "HDV" Best quality and I get an M2t file. Normally looks identical to the timeline.
Then I use Canopus Procoder. I Import the M2t to procoder and transcode it to MPEG2, it has many variables about quality, size, pass, etc.
I don't bother with Avids exports, iDVD or Sorenson because I had problems in the past and I read that there are some issues in the current versions as well. Get the procoder and you will make everything easy and fast. It is a general opinion in Avids forums that it trascodes better than the normal Avid (QT) solutions and is simple and fast.
Hope this can help.
Panos

[Jiri Bakala]

Thanks Panos. I guess Procoder is only available for PC, isn't it? Anything else suitable for Macs?

[Panos Bournias]

Opps.. Sory Jiri, no procoder for the mac as far as I no.

[Steve Benner]

I largely use Avid for my editing, but Final Cut Studio for Compressor and DVD Studio Pro.

If you can get a copy of just DVD Studio Pro 4 on ebay it comes with both. It may be worth looking into. It can read the .m2t directly, but you can use MPEG STREAMCLIP to transcode it into a better codec for DVD Studio Pro. A workaround, yes, but it works.

I haven't done HDV 30 in Avid, only 24 as DNxHD so I really am not sure about the HDV exporting.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Gary Williams

Ask Stephen Noe he is the Avid specialist on this forum.

I think Jiri is on Mac so his options are very limited right now.

[Jiri Bakala]

Yes, I am on a Mac... limited indeed. As much as I love the Avid, this makes me take a serious look at FCP.

[Antony Michael Wilson]

Well Jiri, look on the bright side: you can run Avid and FCP on the same machine! I'm running Avid on the PC so I'll have to buy a new crate and storage for our FCP online setup.

[Jiri Bakala]

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

Well Jiri, look on the bright side: you can run Avid and FCP on the same machine! I'm running Avid on the PC so I'll have to buy a new crate and storage for our FCP online setup.

Very true...hopefully there won't be conflicts between hardware and software (yeah, I know...it's a computer, it will have conflicts).

[Jiri Bakala]

8-minute project
edited on AXP 5.5.3/Mac OSX
shot in HDV720/30P

Export to HDV Device:

The HD50 deck - it doesn't record the material back to tape well, introducing glitches. I am yet to update the firmware - perhaps that will improve the situation.

The HD100 camera - much better than the deck but still the occassional glitch makes it to the tape ----

...which made me think, what if it's the tapes? So, I pulled an old one-pass SONY PHDVM-63DM and tried again. Not a single glitch. In this I have to say, good ol' SONY tapes.

So, my whole batch of new Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tapes is not all that great, as this reminded me of periodic problems I had with TC in the field, as well as some lost footage due to major dropouts. Guess I'd be switching back to SONY tape stock pretty quick.

I still have to test the deck export but due to the number of glitches there, I'd tend to think that the deck might be at fault as well as the tapes.