Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

I realize everyone's needs are different and the BMCC is certainly an attractive option - especially for indie filmmakers. I dabble in a little of everything so I need a little more versatility than the Blackmagic box offers - especially in the ISO department. By all means its a bargain though, at $3000 with Davinci essentially means you're paying $2000 for a camera that can record raw or prores and getting some killer color software. Like I said - I really looked at preordering one, its just not a good fit for what I do. Nice to have so many high quality options though...

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

True for the FS100, but the AF100's price is dropping steadily. Right now, it is .

Folks at the $3000-$3500 price point who want a 'large' sensor, interchangeable lens digital cinema camera with built-in headphone audio monitoring now have to decide whether they want the D800, BMC, 5DMkIII or AF100. As someone said earlier in this thread, this is a great time to be a filmmaker - maybe the best time in history.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

I suspect someone told you it was RAW that prevented 60p was wrong. Depending on which chip they chose and DSP power/heat issues -- the system may simply not be able to run faster than 30p.

You do not get "log compressed" from the camera. A non-log gamma curve is applied to the log data obtained from the sensor/DSP. One non-log gamma curve id REC709. The other is a flatter curve.

Likewise, I don't think you get ProRes RGB 12-bit 4444. (I'd love to be wrong.) You get ProRes 10-bit 422 -- HQ I think.

You are IMO so right about the frenzy for RAW. Software for the KineFlow S8 takes 1 minute per frame. Using the CinemaDNG importer for AE or Pr takes lots of time.

With AE you can export ProRes 12-bit RGB 4444 -- which is very nice with FCP X which will auto-create ProRes Proxy in the background during import. (This takes time and works only for OS X users!)

With Pr you really need to render your timeline to something like ProRes Proxy is you are going to playback at full speed. (This takes time and works only for OS X users!)

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

the guy who told me was Dan May, the official Blackmagic rep demoing the camera.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

When asked about the brochure, he corrected it himself at great length. The sensor output is converted to log. But, neither ProRes nor DNxHD outputs are log formats! If they were, they couldn't be used! In most cases, you'll choose will be REC709 so they can be used by all NLEs.

It would be possible to output 10-bit log C, but every NLE would need a log C import plug-in. And, the camera would need a log C LUT. (Yes, you can use CC to try to recover the a signal from log C. But, it's a pain.)

However, there are log C importers for FCP and fcp x so in theory BM could add a third gamma curve to ProRes and DNxHF. So maybe he let slip a secret! Perhaps that's what BM means by a "filmic" gamma curve. That would be a killer feature!

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Are there any UNGRADED CinemaDNG samples with audio? Samples covering motion and skin tone? CU and wide shots?

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

I don't think it's the sensor itself, which, if it's the BAE/Fairchild CIS2051, can run up to 100 fps at 2,560 x 2,160 and 200 fps at 1,920 x 1,080. Like the Scarlet and Epic, the BMC may have a maximum overall data rate it can run at (as determined by an number of its components, like the SSD controller). If that's the case, it could conceivably run at a higher frame rate if the per-frame data burden is reduced via a compressed codec like ProRes or (my suggestion) CineForm RAW.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Or, it's our old friend HEAT!

I posted an answer that was partially wrong.

While the ProRes and DNxHD outputs are not log -- as I said. They are pulled from a master log curve from the 12-bit sensor.

Therefore, I think the RAW data is output as log.

My question for BM -- the camera can apply REC709 gamma to an area of the 12-stop log curve. Why not simply deBayer the whole log curve. Now output this at 10-bit log C in PR 422 HQ or DNxHD 422 -- or 12-bit ProRes 4444.

I'll bet Resolve will handle these files and Glue makes importers for log C data.


I've been working with RAW for 2 months. It is a royal pain in the butt! The only things neat are:

1) set the WB -- AFTER THE SHOOT.

2) in AE create, an lazy-S gamma curve or black stretch or expand -- AFTER THE SHOOT.

3) A way to get 12-stops of DR.

When you consider than some RAW software takes a MINUTE PER FRAME to process -- you can see why just getting the 12 stop DR -- FAST -- is all I really need.

And, yes, each scene as usually will need to be CC to 0% to 100%/108%. But, with Media Compose and the new Curves plug-in for FCP X -- that's not going to be a killer job. And it's real-tme unlike RAW1

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

It's been almost 2 months to the day of the announcement at NAB. We saw the original specs, the original footage, but now it has gone silent. With the release date drawing near, why are we not hearing anything new? I have mine pre-ordered but I need to hear the final specs to feel 100% sure that it meets my needs. I do a very large amount of handheld work, and with my 7D i rely on the IS of the 17-55 lens to smooth out the "microshakes" that DSLRs exhibit when not on a tripod or without IS. I need to know if IS is indeed supported on Canon EF lenses or not. It has not been stated clearly at this point.

Anyone with an insight on any of this?

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Marty, the final specs have all been announced. The details are all up there on BMD's website, and it's been reported ad nauseam by BMD reps every time they've been asked these questions - they're going to deliver the specs they announced, and nothing more (at this stage).

So no IS at this stage, no AF at this stage, only 3 ISO settings and the mount will be EF.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

I have read through the specs "ad nauseum" myself and see no official reference to "not supporting IS" anywhere in the official literature. I have read speculation, reports from people at BMD events contradicting each other and reports from John Brawley (only one to actual shoot with this camera that we are aware of) saying they might add additional ISO before release.

Regardless, I'm just looking for any new information about the camera and possibly some new footage. With the release drawing near there is a lack of any additional information or reports and that is just a little concerning, especially when other cameras that are due to ship around the same time are getting full reviews on higly respected websites.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Kind of strange; here we are sitting at July 7 with projected camera shipping "towards later part of July" and not a peep about any new info since April. No sample footage since April, no nothing.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

it isn't that strange. I'm waiting on several product releases since NAB....

waiting is the new normal.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Scarlet deja vu... all over again?
(And I'm not much better -- eagerly waiting for the EOS 1DC.)

-- peer

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

What about the EOS 1DX? This was announced last November & is still not available.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

The 1DX is shipping.

-- peer

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Really? I haven't seen any reviews of a production model & it's only available to pre-order from every Canon dealer that I can find.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Regular people were getting the 1DX last Tuesday.

-- peer

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Some new raw & graded stills from John Brawley here. Looking pretty good:

A little tease | johnbrawley

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Thanks for that Simon. If this shows what the camera can do, it is very exciting.

That said, I am not sure about anyone else, but here we are with less than a week to go and this is the first taste of anything that I've heard concerning the BMD. Doesn't it seem weird not to have at least
a little bit of marketing by BMD, or an announcement saying that it will be postponed? Something?!

I am sure BMD is working day and night to be ready, but to hear nothing, other than rumors
of 200 being delivered on time - or the other rumor that their vendors also being left in the black as to what the magic design is (not good). I would prefer to be told *well ahead of time*, "Sorry, it will be delayed." It has to do with cred.

And yes, I get it. This cam, with all the features has great *potential*, but if BMD whiffs
on this one, it will only add to their reputation of being - how does one say it delicately,
falling short of what is being promoted - which speaks to other aspects of dealing with them.

I do think that BMD moved the camera world at NAB, and I am thankful, but for me even if they
deliver 200 cameras, though wonderful, just means that something else (the execution of the plan?) is still not in place - and possibly half-baked.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

The eagle has landed!

BM asked me, if I want to give it a test ride.

Frank

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Wow, with such a big lens and a tripod, all in that small box? :D
You must be one of the first to receive it, can I ask you for what purpose you will be using the camera; weddings, corporate or? The low price is very tempting but the camera seems like a real handfull to operate, I will be looking out for the first real world samples that appear on vimeo or youtube.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

I didn't buy it.

Blackmagic was asking me, if want to do a test ride - so they send me one.
The guys who ordered it, still have to wait a week or two.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Are you going to post your findings in this forum?
Edit: I just found and read your initial thoughts of the camera on your wordpress blog: blackmagic takes quite a risk sending you the camera or they want to persuade you it's better then you think :) Will be very interesting to see what you think about it, at least we can expect an honest review.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Yeah, I was quite surprised, that they asked me - but at least that comes with a "non fanboy guaranty" ;-)

I post my findings here and on my blog.
Since I'm brand agnostic, I give it the same fair and objective as possible review as everything else.
I'm really curious how it handles and what I can get out of it.

Frank

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

First the FS700, now the BM Camera....you get all the new toys to play with!

Please shoot some charts if you have a chance; it would be interesting to get some empirical tests to put alongside the raw test videos that have all ready been released.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Frank,
low light footage , please,
thank you!

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Blackmagic Cinema Camera Unboxing - YouTube

The unboxing...

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Here is some DNG frames for you guys to play with.

Throw them into Photoshop or AE , hit the "auto" button for starters and have your jaw dropped.

I exposed them on purpose to 100% zebras, just to see what is there.
Its amazing how good the highlights hold up.

Dynamic range: http://www.filedropper.com/dng

Night scene: :Frank Glencairn Blackmagic low light test - Blackmagic Cinema Camera Forum - Forum

Frank

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Much appreciated!

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Did a little lowlight shoot-out yesterday

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

It looks to me that you should only shoot in raw to get the most out of this camera, raw looked much better when graded then prores to me. What is the highest ISO the BM can do? Do you also know how much footage one 256GB ssd can hold when you shoot Raw?

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

The ISO doesn't mater (only when you shoot Prores) cuse it's all just metadata, it looks always the same, no mater what you dial in, you actually always shoot at ISO 800.

Here is some frames, if anyone wants to play with that: http://www.filedropper.com/voodoo

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

I don't have any experience shooting raw at all but how do you set the exposure when shooting in that format, is it that much different then a with conventional video camera? Is it just a matter of setting an F-stop, focussing and do all the exposure adjustments and color corrections (like setting the right white balance) in post?

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Basically yes. You set your zebras to 100 and make sure they just go away. That's it for exposure - recording the most DR as possible. The rest is done in post. Think of shooting still raw but at 24 fps.

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Frank,

I've tried the Red Camera, does this BMCC behave similarly as far as exposing it shooting RAW? Do I expose for highlight and pull the shadows in post?


Ted

Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!
 

Yes, it's similar.