Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

I'm not sure if anyone saw this but it's a well done take on the C300 showing it against the 5D in motion shots, the different cine settings in various locations and how they work with skin tones......and a fun ending.


Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Re: Nice C300 peice by Fresh DV
 

I was just about to post the same video.

There is also a review frm the director on Canon's site:

Canon DLC: Article: EOS C300 for Cinematographers

Re: Nice C300 peice by Fresh DV
 

Nice find! I really enjoyed the moire and car mount comparisons (even though they make me want to go cry in a corner). The more footage I see the more it seems like a really great looking camera out of the box, lot's of people seem to get a good look with it.

Exciting times...

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

That's some great low light performance. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Great explanation and comparisons. Thx.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Damn, now I really want to see 'I Love Ice Cream'.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Great video

Having seen this camera rubbished across the blogosphere - including numerous unfavourable comparisons with the elusive 3 grand (err... make that 10 grand) Scarlet - it's great to see the C300 finding a solid user base. The footage is superb, and the real-world benefits of its size are huge. This thing makes high end docos a distinct possibility for one man bands, all in a flight friendly peli case. A truly stunning, game-changing piece of kit.

Thanks for posting.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

I would never have entertained the idea of shooting docos on any large-sensor camera - but this has changed my mind-set...
Well done Canon!

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

It does seem that across all examples so far that skin tones are very good, except for some ungraded log shots. To me that shows a good deal of color control and fidelity.
The 5DII skew example made me wince too.
While many of us might not be thrilled with some specs, it does seem increasingly that the C300 does what it says it does very well. A truly hi end image making setup in a single man-portable pelican case is perhaps the short explanation of what the camera means. The scene with the C300, no Matte box, and an EF lense shows a very small setup.
Great explanation of "why EF lenses" too.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Very good video. It covered some pertinent info very quickly and was easy to watch.

I wonder why so many keep pigeon-holing this camera as only for TV and for docs. I have no dog in the fight between the C300 and the ScarletX or the F3 for that matter - but it just seems a bit laughable that before anyone is able to buy the Scarlet X [until this month] or the Canon - we've already stamped what they are used for.

Movies will be shot on C300 - just as tv and docs will be shot with Scarlet X. I know that - because movies were made with an XL1 and an EX1 and a PD150 etc.

It's getting old real fast. I wish someone would do a video like this for the Scarlet X - I think it would help a lot of people.

Good video.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

The people who are pigeonholing these cameras are most likely not the ones who will be actually shooting the TV shows and movies that you will likely end up seeing in distribution. I haven't heard any of my colleagues dismissing or embracing any of these cameras based on specs alone. We will dutifully test them and make our decisions based on those results, along with anecdotal reports of successes and failures.

Interestingly, some of the people who have the most involved things to say technically about how one camera or another "should" look better are not exactly high-end users. Nothing wrong with shooting quickie :30's for local businesses -- I started my shooting career that way -- but poo-pooing anything less than 4:4:4 or 4K for that kind of application is kinda silly.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

If there's any pigeon holing going on, it's more that Scarlet is likely to be better suited to work with extensive post grading (with time allowed for it) whilst the C300 will be more suited to shoots where the final look isn't far different from what's captured in camera. Ok, that may well largely correlate with the C300 mostly for Tv, the Scarlet mostly for films, but nobody is saying the divide will be all or nothing.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Awesome review, never seen one so entertaining! Canon just have to get the price RIGHT now.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

It makes me wonder how the 1DX will perform in low light...

Re: C300 Discussion
 

As the narrative says, 'time to get excited' .. if the price is right.

Cheers.

Re: C300 Discussion
 

I have watched this many times today and like the image. I think Canon have a great camera here, the first of many to come and the small form factor would be great for me. Although, the current price I feel is set way to high and needs to come down.
My 2 cents worth!

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Reading the comments on Vimeo, this video catches a bit of the buzz that Laforet did for the 5DII with Reverie. It's interesting how far we've come from Reverie looking technically good (to me at least).

If the 1DX is closer to the C300 than the 5D that could make some of us happy.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

A really nicely done review. I loved the ISO demonstration (and I thought they did a good rolling shutter comparison, moire comparison, etc.). It was good to see so many ungraded shots, especially those showing the different gamma settings. And they did some nice grading of the Canon Log footage, which showed it off to good advantage, I thought. I agree with the other comments on the price point and it will be interesting to see what the release price will actually be in January.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

I had a chance to mess with the 1Dx 2 weeks ago, and I would say it outperforms the 5D2 in terms of low light. ISO6400 is like the old ISO3200 in 5D2. However the noise pattern is still ugly unlike the C300 which is supposed to be film like.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

It's a shame they didn't normalise the exposure in the gamma tests. The differences in range make it hard to judge whether the Canon log brings any real advantage over the other gammas and the DSLR was considerably over exposed. The overexposed yellow sweater becomes not over exposed when they go to Canon Log, but we also see a drop in overall range with shadow detail getting lost, mid grey shifts up and down greatly between each gamma. It makes no sense to expose for one gamma and then just expose everything else the same when your exploring the different dynamic ranges of different curves. Much more telling would have been to have set mid grey at the same point for each so you can see how much under/over range you have. So the question is how would the standard gammas have looked at the same grey card exposure as the Log?

I also think the jello tests were a bit of a cheat as on the DSLR the bases of the vertical columns go completely out of frame and the shake frequency is higher while the C300 column bases stay in frame and the shaking is less violent, so two very different amounts of shake. On the driving shot the DSLR is completely overexposed and it looks to me to be a longer focal length so shake and jello would be amplified. Would have been nicer to have had both cameras on the same mount at the same time and both correctly exposed for a fair test. Don't get me wrong, I would expect the DSLR to perform significantly worse that the C300, but for the tests to be really meaningful they need to be done as fairly as possible.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Great looking footage - no doubt. However, if they are really thinking this should be used for documentaries why didn't they include the 3X sensor crop capabilities that the T3i has. We know the chip has the resolution for it. This helps avoid changing lenses to capture things as they are happening. Depending on what you are covering, many times it is simply impossible to take the time to change lenses. It seems like it would have been an easy feature to add. Makes me wonder if documentary film-making was truly a target audience when they developed this camera. Or if they actually talked to any documentary filmmakers.

One great thing this camera addresses is getting deep depth of field. While I love the shallow DOF for a lot of shooting, however there are times when I want deep too. Clean high ISOs allow that and aren't only for low-light situations. Sensor crop also helps this as it gives you an effectively smaller chip.

Anyone else notice how soft the image is when they show how the C300 doesn't have moire? It would be more convincing if it had been as sharp as the 5D footage. We all know one way to deal with moire is to put subject slightly out of focus and sharpen in post.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Traditionally cinematographers and broadcast camera people don't crop their images, even for documentaries. There's a resolution drop and the effect is very different to changing your focal length.

There are a number of zoom lens options around, one of which is to use a 2/3" video lens. Alistair Chapman has been working on a cheaper adapter which seems to be going into production. http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...w-adapter.html

Another is the parfocal 3:1 zooms which are compact and have a f2.8 stop.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

I don't think you are understanding how the sensor crop works. An oversampled sensor like the one in the C300 can generate a cropped image without losing resolution just like the T3i does. Remember that the output is only 1080P, so if you have a 6 megapixel imager you have a lot of latitude to take only part of the image before writing as a 1080P file.. It works quite well on the T3i, with minimal, if any, loss of resolution.

Yes the imager becomes smaller when you do this. However, there are times when shooting you'd rather be quick than worry about getting the shallowest depth of field possible. Sensor crop is a powerful tool to have in our toolbelt. I find I use it A LOT with my T3i. If you don't have it or have never used it, you might not know what you're missing.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Yes I know how the crop works, but the C300 doesn't operate in the same manner as the T3i. when creating the 1080p in the camera. The T3i has a larger pixel count sensor to begin with and it line skips when creating the 1080p, the C300 doesn't do that..

David Heath explains his take on the C300 sensor here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/new-cano...arlet-x-8.html

The RED allows windowing and it's noticeably softer at 2k compared to 3k or 4k, objectionably so for quite a few people.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Unfortunately, the C300 does not work this way. The sensor really only has effectively 1920 x 1080 "pixels." There just happens to be four photosites (1 red, 1 blue and two greens) for each recorded pixel. It reads these out directly and does not de-Bayer, so there is no possibility of a larger resolution from which to crop.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

My mistake for taking the Canon published pixel count at face value - Effective Pixels
Approx. 8.29 megapixels (3840 x 2160).

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

I can understand the confusion because the C300 works definitely than most other large single sensor cameras. The 8.29 megapixels is correct, although a better term is 8.29 mega-photosites. It's just people are not used to "photosites" so they just used the term pixels.

If you add up all the photosites:

1920 x 1080 Red
1920 x 1080 Blue
1920 x 1080 Green1
1920 x 1080 Green2

You end up with 8,294,400 photosites or 8.29 "megapixels"

If Canon de-Bayers this sensor, they theoretically could record a 4K image. But the C300 is not doing this. It's just reading out the 1920 x 1080 directly. So because of the way the C300 constructs its image, there is no possibility for a higher resolution from which to crop.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

I suspect this is exactly what is planned for the 4k DSLR prototype they've been talking about - take the same sensor and add an option to debayer to a full 4k image. The fact that they've described it as using MJPEG compression for 4k makes me think they're using the simpler compression (and likely higher data rates) to free up processing power to handle the debayering process in real time. It also makes me think it's likely to show up as a firmware upgrade for the C300 at around the same time the DLSR actually ships, as it seems unlikely at this point that they'd ship a (presumably) less expensive DSLR with higher performance capabilities than their flagship cinema camera.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

I agree, Evan,

In fact, my guess is that it will be similar to the 1D X in that it will use two Digic 5 chips. It doesn't need the DV3, since it won't likely have XLRs, genlock, HD SDI, etc. However, I expect it to use the C300 sensor.

This is a nice differentiation strategy. Video cameras will have the pro features and a higher price. DSLRs can have similar video quality, but fewer features and lower prices (along with higher volumes.)

Time will tell...

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

This seems logical, but unfortunately the C300's sensor is only S35 sized and Canon has said the C-DSLR will have a full frame 35mm sensor. The 4K video will be cropped to APS-H sized, but the 1920x1080 HD video will use the full width of the sensor (according to Erik Allen at Canon).

I also don't think the C300 will get any sort firmware update to enable de-Bayering and record to 4K. This would require a whole new codec because the XF codec doesn't record beyond HD. Also, it's unknown if the DIGIC DV III can physically handle a 4K de-Bayer in real time.

However, it is intriguing to think that all Canon needs is a new DSP and codec and they could be recording 4K in no time flat. But then again, for true 4K resolution, you have to oversample like what the F65 does at 8K. I would think Canon would prefer that method, but it would require a new sensor.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

The video is well done, and 20,000 ISO is an accomplishment but I think it still looks too noisy for much use. The scene of the girl on the bench which starts at ISO 1250 is touching the limit for me at 1250. The rest just look, well noisy with deeper DOF.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Great interview with Jonathan Yi about the making of this piece (thanks to J. P. A.):

JONATHAN YI TALKS ABOUT THE CANON C300 | The Filmmaker Magazine Blog

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

It is a nice interview from Jonathan. It helped fill in some information on his tests. Now to wait until Canon comes out with a price and to actually get a camera in my hands. The remaining concerns for me would be how well the viewfinder works on this camera. If you don't have to add a viewfinder that would make the camera more cost effective and easier to use for documentaries.

The problem is that being use to broadcast cameras with high resolution viewfinders I don't know if it will meet my needs. The other concern is how quickly you can white balance and adjust ISO and Gain since there are no dedicated switches. The other big concern is how to solve focusing manually with these small Canon still lenses. Not nearly as easy as manually focusing on a big broadcast lens. Plus you have to be able to make a few lens changes very quickly. Never did have a perfect solution with the DSLR's.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

You can set two of the fifteen user-assignable buttons, one to FUNC. WB and the other to FUNC. ISO,
to enter the direct setting modes for white balance and gain (see page 100 of the C300 operator's manual).

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Can't please everyone all the time I guess. The review was enough information to consider the camera and more than enough to rent one to try it out. Better than nothing or guessing. Cheers

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

True, and this may work fine. Just have to see how it works actually using the camera. I would not want to have to make 3 steps when I can just make one like I can now with the XDCAM.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

The rear viewfinder is quite nice and I think very useable. Not quite the same as a broadcast camera where the VF screen is typically 1.5" or 2" across the diagonal, but still useable IMHO never the less.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

The rear EVF is the same unit as the XF305/300, if that helps.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

Thank you both for the feedback. Good to hear that the viewfinder seems very useable. But if it is the same viewfinder from the XF305 then it is listed as a 1/2" viewfinder. Guess I will have to see for myself.

The C300 seems to take a lot from the XF 305/300 camera which is not necessarily a bad thing, but at over twice the price we would be paying quite a bit for just the large sensor. And the XF 305 comes with a lens.

Re: Nice C300 peice by Jonathan Yi
 

There's probably a larger market for XF 305, so keeping the unit costs down and the perceived value is another factor in pricing products.