DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-cinema-eos-camera-systems/)
-   -   C100 Frame rate suggestion (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-cinema-eos-camera-systems/518877-c100-frame-rate-suggestion.html)

Dave Ande September 11th, 2013 10:34 PM

C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Hey all, I have a wedding coming up and was wondering what FR you recommend. I'm using my C100, 5DM3 and I may rent a XF100. Although I seldom shoot @ 24p, I'm thinking about going with 24p. Keep in mind this will be an outdoor wedding in the evening. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Dave

Nate Haustein September 12th, 2013 01:07 PM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
I think 24p looks great and I use it for almost everything. If you like the look, go with it.

On the C100 use the "24P" setting, not the "PF24" as the later records the video over 60i and requires a deinterlacing process.

Dave Ande September 12th, 2013 02:18 PM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Nate thanks for the reply. When shooting at 24p I guess I will need to make sure that I don't have a bunch of quick pans etc so that the footage won't look to jerky, correct me if I'm wrong...BTW if I do shoot 24p I'll set the shutter at 50 or use 180 angle. Any preference of the two? I know if I use shutter I can always go lower if I need additional light for any evening/night shots at the reception

....Dave

Nate Haustein September 12th, 2013 07:31 PM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
You can change the shutter speed to a perfect 1/48 by changing the shutter speed mode to 1/4 stop increments within the menus. This 1/4 stop increments setting also allows you to quickly change to 1/60 if you encounter any 60hz sources like projectors or TVs, etc.

I've been shooting 24p for years and I've never once been unhappy with "juddery" motion. Not saying you should be sloppy with your shooting, but also don't worry about it too much. As long as you're not whipping around back and forth, i'm sure your pans will be just fine.

Docea Marius September 13th, 2013 12:28 PM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Hallo

with c100 I shoot wedding in 50i only, standard Blu-Ray..

Marius

Gary Huff September 18th, 2013 07:31 PM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Haustein (Post 1812679)
On the C100 use the "24P" setting, not the "PF24" as the later records the video over 60i and requires a deinterlacing process.

It does not require a deinterlacing process. If you shoot in PF24 and then deinterlace, you are literally throwing information away and making your end result look much poorer.

You remove 3:2 pulldown and this requires After Effects or Cinema Tools, which is why you NEVER deinterlace PF24 footage (you also don't deinterlace PF30 footage either, but it's only a straight 2:2 pulldown, so Premeire can do it, but FCP7/X might have issues, so I would use ClipWrap to process these files on a Mac. Great utility).

Nate Haustein September 19th, 2013 12:21 AM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Thanks Gary, you are correct, I meant to say pulldown NOT deinterlace.

My first experience with PF24 came a few years ago with a small Vixia I used as a b cam. I made a Compressor preset that removed the cadence (handy if you don't have Final Cut Studio with Cinema Tools, or are shooting HDMI out to a recorder that doesn't do the 3:2), but boy is it simpler just to shoot straight up 24p!

For AVCHD footy, +1 for ClipWrap

Gary Huff September 20th, 2013 07:09 AM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
I'm really baffled as to why Canon included 24PSF on the C100. It's functionality is to maintain compatibility with older NLEs, but we're talking REALLY old NLEs (or, I guess, for a 24p look in a broadcast ready container, but really?).

Wayne Avanson September 27th, 2013 06:15 AM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff (Post 1813700)
It does not require a deinterlacing process. If you shoot in PF24 and then deinterlace, you are literally throwing information away and making your end result look much poorer.

You remove 3:2 pulldown and this requires After Effects or Cinema Tools, which is why you NEVER deinterlace PF24 footage (you also don't deinterlace PF30 footage either, but it's only a straight 2:2 pulldown, so Premeire can do it, but FCP7/X might have issues, so I would use ClipWrap to process these files on a Mac. Great utility).

I've been using Clipwrap for the past week for changing the files to ProRes422, FCPX friendly. Not sure about 'best practices here, but is that the best option for reasonably sized images/quality?

Thanks
Wayne

Andree Markefors September 30th, 2013 12:14 AM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff (Post 1813898)
I'm really baffled as to why Canon included 24PSF on the C100. It's functionality is to maintain compatibility with older NLEs, but we're talking REALLY old NLEs (or, I guess, for a 24p look in a broadcast ready container, but really?).

The C100 records native 24p for those who prefer that option and makes PF24 available for any speciality needs (24p in interlaced delivery).

The main problem is that the AVCHD codec doesn't allow true 25p or 30p options, so Canon has no real choice here. The 2.0 version of AVCHD allows for 50p and 60p, but still not 25 or 30.

Needless to say, most C100 owners would say: scrap the AVCHD and give me any 4:2:2 codec, but let's not go there, beating that dead horse: the C300 awaits you.

Since the C100 is a AVCHD camera, Canon has given you all the options they could: normal interlaced 50i and 60i recording and progressive recording in the PF24, PF25 and PF30 formats. Additionally there is the 24p format that AVCHD actually supports.

Gary Huff September 30th, 2013 07:34 AM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andree Markefors (Post 1814905)
The 2.0 version of AVCHD allows for 50p and 60p, but still not 25 or 30.

That's simply crazy and I sympathize with my PAL brethren. I wonder what the issue is with that.

Quote:

Needless to say, most C100 owners would say: scrap the AVCHD and give me any 4:2:2 codec, but let's not go there, beating that dead horse: the C300 awaits you.
I tell them to get a Ninja. Sometimes, AVCHD is the perfect codec for the job, given it's quality implementation on the C100 and it's small file size. Sometimes, you want the full bitrate power of ProResHQ.

I like having options.

Andree Markefors October 2nd, 2013 12:05 PM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff (Post 1814939)
I tell them to get a Ninja. Sometimes, AVCHD is the perfect codec for the job, given it's quality implementation on the C100 and it's small file size. Sometimes, you want the full bitrate power of ProResHQ.

Agreed. Quirky container formats aside, I found the C100 AVCHD performance quite good. I rarely needed anything else.

Matt Davis October 7th, 2013 08:49 PM

Re: C100 Frame rate suggestion
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff (Post 1814939)
That's simply crazy and I sympathize with my PAL brethren. I wonder what the issue is with that.

Well, Canon has a bit of history in this.

The FS100 has absolutely no problem delivering 1080p25 - truly progressive material cropping up in most NLEs I've used. It could just be 25psf on a 2:2 pulldown, but it's completely invisible to the editor - it just works.

Canon have decided to continue their reputation for malignant PSF (excellent but long and techy article by Allan Tepper here - http://provideocoalition.com/atepper...malignant_psf/), and not only do NLEs misinterpret it, there are odd things happening to the chroma (the 'triangular jaggies' you may have seen in areas of high intensity colour, especially reds):


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:13 PM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2019 The Digital Video Information Network