Canon 7D - My Impressions After 3 Weeks Use

Andy Wilkinson · December 6th, 2009, 11:12 AM

Thanks for leaving this thread on track.

Just a quick note to say I've done some minor text updates to my website review linked at the top (page 1) of this thread...as it's now 4 weeks in. Basically, I'm getting better at focus using some of the tools Canon provided on the 7D and I've started using my light meter again (never thought I'd be doing that!).

Andy Wilkinson · December 11th, 2009, 02:29 PM

Just to add more info. I did some shots in Cambridge yesterday (in some of the College quadrangles that I frequently visit, and also around the Market / Rose Crescent area / Xmas lights, as the sun went down). Some of the stuff I shot in 1080p25 is really beautiful (the odd hint of aliasing here and there - but just about bearable). I'm thrilled with that stuff!

However, near enough all the stuff I shot in 720p50 is horrible - aliasing on anything with a hard edge etc. near horizontal (paving slab lines, cobbles, arms of chairs, shop window frames, anything architectural etc.). I'd read it was much worse than at 1080p but wanted to see. Obviously, where those things were out of the focal plane it was fine - all was with my only lens (Canon 17-55 EF-S and most of it at F2.8) so best shots were on the long end, as expected, regarding this specific aspect.

Anyway, from what I've seen the 720p mode on the 7D has very limited application (at least at this F stop, this lens, for day and night time city shooting) but I'll test it some more (or only use my EX3 for those 720p high frame rate shots...but then you get unwanted attention). With the 7D, very few people batted an eyelid and/or just assumed I was another tourist taking snaps (just what I like when I'm shooting video in public places!). My guess is 720p50 will need very shallow DOF and/or organic/natural subjects, nothing man-made in shot to be remotely acceptable, especially for intercutting with EX3 stuff.

Just my personal thoughts - YMMV. I'll put some of the footage from yesterday up on my website when I (eventually) get time - lots of other stuff to edit before the holidays!

Marty Welk · December 19th, 2009, 08:51 AM

thanks for the review/comparison, that answered so many things.

Andy Wilkinson · December 19th, 2009, 12:31 PM

Thanks for letting me know Marty - glad all this stuff helps!!!

The video I mentioned above is now finished and on YouTube (and currently embedded in a page my website). Link below direct to YouTube page. All the shots that made it to final edit were 1080p ones...but the video was uploaded as a 720p export from Final Cut.

YouTube - Cambridge in December (Canon 7D)

Keith Moreau · December 19th, 2009, 11:01 PM

Hi Andy, nice video. Did you do the zooms in post?

Andy Wilkinson · December 20th, 2009, 10:10 AM

Thanks! Yes, no way can I get zooms as smooth as that with the "naked" camera - and I don't want any complex, "pimped up" rig for the 7D as it defeats one of the major advantages shooting those types of situations (highly portable and almost "stealthy"). If I want a big rig/to get noticed in public I take the EX3!

With the 7D people think you're just taking snaps. You'll notice very few people actually looking into camera, even though the longest reach on my lens equates to about 88mm. Some shots would have benefited from a lens with longer reach for sure. About the only problem I got was the odd, very thoughtful, person stopping dead in their tracks and waiting for me to take "the picture" (which always gets a big thank you in return of course).

Some of the shots had SmoothCam applied in FCP too (as it was all hand held) - I'm pretty steady but this helps in some cases.

I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out, bearing in mind I've only had the camera a few weeks and not had much playtime with it because of client commitments.

Also, most of the shots I took that afternoon/early evening were deliberately taken to see at what point the camera gave me unacceptable results. This is why you don't see any real shallow DOF stuff - I know it's good at that stuff - I wanted to see at what point it was not so good - hence a lot of wide shots in complex, man made environments (to see how bad or not the aliasing and moire would be in both 1080p and 720p modes). 720p was much worse for aliasing as I now know from my own experience from this exercise. Also, I decided to film mid-afternoon onwards, so as the sun went down I could get some low light stuff of the Market Scenes and Xmas lights to see just how much I could push my 7D in this aspect (with the lens I currently have). Certainly usable within boundaries that a faster lens would widen.

I've sent the video link to a numbers of my clients as a Xmas thank you for their business over the last year - seemed a much better way than just another Xmas card and the feedback has been highly positive! It was a good way of reminding them of "the power of video" - but they know that already as the've employed me!

Peter Rhalter · December 21st, 2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shealy

I thought it might be fun to compare some low light footage frame-grabs taken from the 7D at different ISO's compared to a well-worn XHA1...

The shallow depth of field in the first 7D shot puts it in a complete category of expression than any of the XHA1's. If you want to make the gumball machine (or whatever your subject is) separate from the background these DSLRs let you do that for a small fortune less than the previous tools. For me it opens a lot of possibilities.

Peter
Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Desert Wildflowers - Guides, DVDs and More

Roger Shealy · December 22nd, 2009, 10:31 AM

Peter, I agree completely. I absolutely love the clarity and DOF of the 7D. It does, however make focus much, much harder and there are times I wish I had f2.0 or better with more range in focus for live, active content. I haven't been able to manage focus on dynamic subjects reliably. I'm not saying its impossible, just a whole new level of skill is required to keep things sharp. Perhaps a monitor will help in this area.

I just hired a crew using a 7D and 2 XHA1's to capture a corporate event. The 7D was spectacular for short snippets of content that stayed at fairly static distance. On other content, such as presentations with the presenter pacing the stage and making unexpected trips into the audience, the A1's were very effective. I'd just love to tone down the 7D's thin DOF for some situations and maintain f2.0 in low light. Another issue with the 7D was some pretty nasty aliasing. One gentleman wore a shirt with a crosshatched pattern that made the 7D's sensor go wonkers. Every time he moved his arm it turned into a rainbows of colors" (see picture at 400%). I hope to find a filter or some type of post processing to reduce this in the future.

December 6th, 2009, 11:12 AM	#31
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Thanks for leaving this thread on track. Just a quick note to say I've done some minor text updates to my website review linked at the top (page 1) of this thread...as it's now 4 weeks in. Basically, I'm getting better at focus using some of the tools Canon provided on the 7D and I've started using my light meter again (never thought I'd be doing that!). __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

December 11th, 2009, 02:29 PM	#32
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	7D Aliasing (especially in 720p 50fps) Just to add more info. I did some shots in Cambridge yesterday (in some of the College quadrangles that I frequently visit, and also around the Market / Rose Crescent area / Xmas lights, as the sun went down). Some of the stuff I shot in 1080p25 is really beautiful (the odd hint of aliasing here and there - but just about bearable). I'm thrilled with that stuff! However, near enough all the stuff I shot in 720p50 is horrible - aliasing on anything with a hard edge etc. near horizontal (paving slab lines, cobbles, arms of chairs, shop window frames, anything architectural etc.). I'd read it was much worse than at 1080p but wanted to see. Obviously, where those things were out of the focal plane it was fine - all was with my only lens (Canon 17-55 EF-S and most of it at F2.8) so best shots were on the long end, as expected, regarding this specific aspect. Anyway, from what I've seen the 720p mode on the 7D has very limited application (at least at this F stop, this lens, for day and night time city shooting) but I'll test it some more (or only use my EX3 for those 720p high frame rate shots...but then you get unwanted attention). With the 7D, very few people batted an eyelid and/or just assumed I was another tourist taking snaps (just what I like when I'm shooting video in public places!). My guess is 720p50 will need very shallow DOF and/or organic/natural subjects, nothing man-made in shot to be remotely acceptable, especially for intercutting with EX3 stuff. Just my personal thoughts - YMMV. I'll put some of the footage from yesterday up on my website when I (eventually) get time - lots of other stuff to edit before the holidays! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

December 19th, 2009, 08:51 AM	#33
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	thanks for the review/comparison, that answered so many things. __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

December 19th, 2009, 12:31 PM	#34
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Thanks for letting me know Marty - glad all this stuff helps!!! The video I mentioned above is now finished and on YouTube (and currently embedded in a page my website). Link below direct to YouTube page. All the shots that made it to final edit were 1080p ones...but the video was uploaded as a 720p export from Final Cut. YouTube - Cambridge in December (Canon 7D) __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

December 20th, 2009, 10:10 AM	#36
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Thanks! Yes, no way can I get zooms as smooth as that with the "naked" camera - and I don't want any complex, "pimped up" rig for the 7D as it defeats one of the major advantages shooting those types of situations (highly portable and almost "stealthy"). If I want a big rig/to get noticed in public I take the EX3! With the 7D people think you're just taking snaps. You'll notice very few people actually looking into camera, even though the longest reach on my lens equates to about 88mm. Some shots would have benefited from a lens with longer reach for sure. About the only problem I got was the odd, very thoughtful, person stopping dead in their tracks and waiting for me to take "the picture" (which always gets a big thank you in return of course). Some of the shots had SmoothCam applied in FCP too (as it was all hand held) - I'm pretty steady but this helps in some cases. I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out, bearing in mind I've only had the camera a few weeks and not had much playtime with it because of client commitments. Also, most of the shots I took that afternoon/early evening were deliberately taken to see at what point the camera gave me unacceptable results. This is why you don't see any real shallow DOF stuff - I know it's good at that stuff - I wanted to see at what point it was not so good - hence a lot of wide shots in complex, man made environments (to see how bad or not the aliasing and moire would be in both 1080p and 720p modes). 720p was much worse for aliasing as I now know from my own experience from this exercise. Also, I decided to film mid-afternoon onwards, so as the sun went down I could get some low light stuff of the Market Scenes and Xmas lights to see just how much I could push my 7D in this aspect (with the lens I currently have). Certainly usable within boundaries that a faster lens would widen. I've sent the video link to a numbers of my clients as a Xmas thank you for their business over the last year - seemed a much better way than just another Xmas card and the feedback has been highly positive! It was a good way of reminding them of "the power of video" - but they know that already as the've employed me! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

December 19th, 2009, 11:01 PM	#35
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	Hi Andy, nice video. Did you do the zooms in post?

December 22nd, 2009, 10:31 AM	#38
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Peter, I agree completely. I absolutely love the clarity and DOF of the 7D. It does, however make focus much, much harder and there are times I wish I had f2.0 or better with more range in focus for live, active content. I haven't been able to manage focus on dynamic subjects reliably. I'm not saying its impossible, just a whole new level of skill is required to keep things sharp. Perhaps a monitor will help in this area. I just hired a crew using a 7D and 2 XHA1's to capture a corporate event. The 7D was spectacular for short snippets of content that stayed at fairly static distance. On other content, such as presentations with the presenter pacing the stage and making unexpected trips into the audience, the A1's were very effective. I'd just love to tone down the 7D's thin DOF for some situations and maintain f2.0 in low light. Another issue with the 7D was some pretty nasty aliasing. One gentleman wore a shirt with a crosshatched pattern that made the 7D's sensor go wonkers. Every time he moved his arm it turned into a rainbows of colors" (see picture at 400%). I hope to find a filter or some type of post processing to reduce this in the future. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Roger Shealy; December 22nd, 2009 at 01:32 PM.