CF vs. Avid DNx175 10bit vs. Native 7d footage at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD

Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 16th, 2010, 03:22 AM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
CF vs. Avid DNx175 10bit vs. Native 7d footage

Here are 3 un-CC'd frame grabs from some test footage.
The Avid was transcoded w/mpeg streamclip and wrapped as MOV.

Pulled from Vegas 9.0c timeline.
On a 24" Dell 1920x1080 display, the native 7d footage always looks a little sharper and has better color.

Why should I stay with Vegas when other NLE's like Edius apparently handle these files natively?
Attached Thumbnails
CF vs. Avid DNx175 10bit vs. Native 7d footage-avid.jpg   CF vs. Avid DNx175 10bit vs. Native 7d footage-cf2.jpg  

CF vs. Avid DNx175 10bit vs. Native 7d footage-native.jpg  
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2010, 01:27 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
I don't know that the native footage looks sharper in these grabs, but it does look like you got a gamma shift. I don't know about the CF conversion, but what settings did you use in Mpeg Streamcllip for the Avid one?
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2010, 01:41 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 325
Just because you can edit files that are compressed natively doesn't mean you should.

Transcode them to a file format that is less CPU intensive and can handle being rendered and added back to the timeline accordingly without loss in image quality...
__________________
Cliff Etzel - Photographer
Website | Blog
Cliff Etzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2010, 02:32 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
I don't know that the native footage looks sharper in these grabs, but it does look like you got a gamma shift. I don't know about the CF conversion, but what settings did you use in Mpeg Streamcllip for the Avid one?
Export to Quicktime
Avid DNxHD>Options button>Color levels RGB>Select 1080/24p DNxHD 175 10bit>quality 100%>Uncheck Interlaced Scaling>Select 1920x1080 unscaled>"Make Movie"

The difference is more pronounced on my Dell, though not huge, it really looks like the Avid and CF take a sharpness and color hit.

I downloaded Edius trial btw, and native files play not so good, but you can render them quickly and that transcodes them to HQ which is a Grass Valley version of CF.
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2010, 02:45 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Luce View Post
Export to Quicktime
Avid DNxHD>Options button>Color levels RGB>Select 1080/24p DNxHD 175 10bit>quality 100%>Uncheck Interlaced Scaling>Select 1920x1080 unscaled>"Make Movie"
Yep, that sounds right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Luce View Post
The difference is more pronounced on my Dell, though not huge, it really looks like the Avid and CF take a sharpness and color hit.
Could it be that the Avid and CF codecs are actually bringing the image into compliance with could actually be broadcast, whereas the 7D is happy to record images that could never be broadcast? What do the native and transcoded files look like on the scope?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Luce View Post
I downloaded Edius trial btw, and native files play not so good, but you can render them quickly and that transcodes them to HQ which is a Grass Valley version of CF.
Saying that CanopusHQ is the Grass Valley version of CF is implying some things that aren't true. CanopusHQ has a LOT more in common with DNxHD than Cineform.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2010, 03:15 PM   #6
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eagle River, AK
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Could it be that the Avid and CF codecs are actually bringing the image into compliance with could actually be broadcast, whereas the 7D is happy to record images that could never be broadcast?
I don't use either Avid or Vegas so not going to get too far into this discussion. I did want to add, however, that IMO reducing the color to broadcast should be the prerogative of the editor (as in the person using the software) rather than automatically done by the NLE. There are other options for final use than broadcast, so I would think NLEs don't (or shouldn't, anyway) assume that purpose for the encode. Along those lines, Cineform pride themselves on maintaining good color and gradation and have posted in times past about utilizing super-whites.

Otherwise, sorry I can't be of much help with the color shifting issues here.
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2010, 03:26 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Bauer View Post
I don't use either Avid or Vegas so not going to get too far into this discussion. I did want to add, however, that IMO reducing the color to broadcast should be the prerogative of the editor (as in the person using the software) rather than automatically done by the NLE. There are other options for final use than broadcast, so I would think NLEs don't (or shouldn't, anyway) assume that purpose for the encode. Along those lines, Cineform pride themselves on maintaining good color and gradation and have posted in times past about utilizing super-whites.

Otherwise, sorry I can't be of much help with the color shifting issues here.
Pete, I don't disagree. However, please be aware that at least with the case of the DNxHD conversion here, this is not being done inside an NLE. The conversion is being done in third party freeware. I should also note that Avid is VERY well regarded in the world of feature film, and the DNxHD codec was built with that audience in mind.

I will also note that having done DNxHD conversion both inside Vegas and in Avid MC, that the superwhites and blacks were preserved, and I experienced no color degreadation as shown to me on the scopes. I've done those tests with footage from numerous cameras including the Canon 5D.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:54 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network