Editing 550D footage
 

My understanding is that the 550D generates footage compressed with the H264 codec, and wrapped as mov files. The bitrate is quoted in the manual as 330MB/minute in normal modes, which in more normal nomenclature is the same as 44Mbs approx. (So about twice that of the best AVC-HD.)

Question is - how easy is it to edit? And are some NLEs better than others? Will anything handle it natively, or will it always need transcoding to something like ProRes? What are peoples experiences?

Yes. Transcode to ProRes, Cineform, or equivalent.

I use Adobe CS4, and I convert within Adobe Encoder to MPEG 25MB/s (equal to HDV bit rate). Then archive the raw footage.

Mpeg streamclip for Mac or PC Squared 5 - MPEG Streamclip video converter for Mac OS X and its free. BTW AVCHD is H264

What mpeg streamclip settings are Premiere Pro users using?

(I'm on CS3 if that makes a difference)

Theres quite alot of settings to choose from, is there a standard setting ?

James

Export to MPEG-4, compression H264, unscaled, basically, export to MPEG-4 and leave everything as it is, works for me.

The files are AVC1 CODEC, not ideal.

I edit the native files in Edius5.

Got my 7d, liking it so far, not really did a proper worklofw test, I've converted t a clip to mp4 using mpeg streamclip, but Premier Pro CS3 says its an unsupported format or damaged file?

I just did the standard export to mpeg 4

Any thoughts?

To clarify, I edit on Premiere Pro CS3, trying to get the 7d clips onto an HDV timeline using the freeware program mpeg streamclip

Cheers

James

Working with CS4 on Windows. Have Streamclip, but unsure what to change the raw footage to, if anything. If I open CS4, what preset should I be using if I want to work with the raw footage? And if I do need to change it, what to, and what preset would be ideal in CS4 for Windows? Very excited to work with the camera! Thanks in advance for your help!

Colin,
Could you outline the steps you use to convert mov for use in Prem CS3.

There are so many options.

Peter

Peter.
Simply import file, or files for batch convert. Go to list/batch list
File/export to MPEG4
I leave all settings as they are.

Thanks for that Colin, but will these files work in Prem CS3 and what project settings do you use. I want to mix the footage with my Matrox RT.X2, which is only 1440 x 1080 and it uses its own Matrox files format.

Peter

I know that Vegas handles the 7D files natively, and I think they're the same codec.

Dont know about that, I use CS4. With mixed clips on a timeline I would always use a preset that matches the highest res. But as you are limited to 1440 with the Matrox, try it and see if its ok

Peter, you cannot edit AVCHD footage with Premiere CS3 and Matrox RT.X2 cannot edit anything higher than 1440X1080. I also have CS3 with Matrox RT.X2 but do not have T2i (550D) yet. This is my intended workflow: 1) Import .mov files into folder on media drive. 2) Convert .mov files to.avi files with Cineform Neoscene, keeping everything 1920X1080, square pixels. 3) Import converted .avi files into Premiere CS3 project (NOT Matrox), creating a custom preset that is 1920X1080, again square pixels. 4) Drop files onto Premiere timeline, edit out stuff I know I will never use, check audio (if using camera audio), keeping everything neat and tidy. 5) Export timeline to tape on HDV camcorder (I have tried this already with Premiere HDV timeline, works flawlessly, just record about 10 seconds of black at head of tape for preroll). 6) Open Matrox HDV project, 1440X1080, 1.33 pixel ratio, in Premiere CS3. Import HDV tape into Matrox project. I know this sounds crazy and a bit time consuming, but I am 95% certain it will work. Also, with this method, you now have archived HD footage on tape, no need to make all kinds of hard drive or disk backups. As long as you don't tape hours and hours of footage, I think this is a very workable workflow for those folks who want to keep using Matrox (like me), for render free editing. If you try this method, let me know how things work out. Good luck.

Thanks Stephen, that's the first time I've seen a workflow for CS3, everyone seems to be using CS4.

I don't have neoscene but I do have ProCoder3.

Can you detail the settings for output from neoscene and I can have a look and see if ProCoder has the same outputs.

I don't want to upgrade to Prem CS4 as my SC3 system with Matrox is working great.

Thanks again
Peter

Thanks Stephen

I use Vegas but wonder if you can drop the native mov files onto the timeline and render/export the timeline to tape? This skips the transcode / neoscene step.

I contacted Cineform via e-mail a couple of weeks ago and got 90% confirmation that Neoscene will transcode T2i footage to work with Premiere CS3 (they should have camera by now for testing) since it is very similar to 7D and they support that camera for CS3. I am not familiar with Procoder 3 but if I had it, I would check with Grass Valley to see if they support transcoding 7D and/or T2i for use with Premiere CS3. I know a Vegas user who says he has to use Cineform Neoscene to do transcode from .mov to .avi, due to colorspace from DSLR not being right for Vegas. Since I use Premiere CS3 with Matrox RT.X2 and do not want to upgrade, I intend on getting Neoscene since it is so cheap (once I get T2i camera). You can get free software trial on Cineform website for a few days if you want to test it out. Once I get camera and software, I will shoot some footage and test my T2i workflow for CS3 and Matrox RT.X2. I'll post my results at that time.

Stephen (and others) thanks very much for the feed back. I was hoping to use ProCoder so I'll give them an e-mail, otherwise I await with baited breath for your results !!

Peter

Fergus, I don't believe Vegas has native support for h.264 mov's. The editors I know that use it transcode with Neoscene or Streamclip before editing. I'm looking into Edius Neo 2.5, as it supports Canon mov's without transcoding. Adobe's Premiere Pro CS5 is supposed to support Canon and is nearing release. In the meantime, I plug away with ZoomBrowser EX. :(

Vegas has native h.264 support, but it's slow. If you just drop a MOV on the timeline, it uses Quicktime to decode. The better option is to open each clip in QT, and export to an M4V without re-encoding. It's just a re-wrap, so it only takes a couple seconds.

The reason to do this is that QT messes up the gamma in eight bit space. This ends up skipping some bit codes and doubling others. You risk banding problems. With the rewrap, the original bit codes are preserved.

You can reduce the preview resolution and preview to RAM to check your edit points. It's really frustratingly slow, but it works and the end result can be great.

But, if you value your time, just part with the $100 and get Neoscene. ;)

no, 7d files will halt Vegas on all the but the best workstations.

On Vegas use 7D via Cineform.

H.264 is too highly compressed to edit naively, except on the fastest of workstations. And only then you won;t have much latitude for doing more complex edits or even color correction.

Best to transcode to an intermediate codec such as Cineform or ProRes, then edit to your hearts content.

I edit on Vegas on the PC side and FCP on the MAC side. In both instances I transcode to an intermediate to edit with, as I'm not just doing simple cuts, but color grading and sometimes working with a few composite layers.

You can do color correction on the native files at high resolution, but don't expect to be able to play them. You can work with a single frame though.

When I first got the 5D2 in 2008, NeoScene didn't yet work on 5D2 files, so we edited natively. In fact, we didn't know about the re-wrap method at that time, so our blacks and whites were all clipped due to the older version of Quicktime.

The formula was to color correct single frames at high res and to review the edit points at low res with either a proxy or RAM preview. It's like driving while only opening your eyes for a few seconds at a time. Finally, you cross your fingers, render, and then see what you got wrong. It got the job done though, and if you use the rewrap method, the quality was good and straight from original footage to the final render.

NeoScene isn't only good to speed up editing. It also enables Vegas to encode intermediates. I find this to be important if you will bounce over to After Effects, and if you want to do lots of layering. I find that Vegas will crash on rendering if you have too many resources on the timeline. (Always clear unused media from the project before saving and rendering.) If the job is really big, I need to divide things up. Being able to render to an intermediate 1080p file is excellent. I also render out to a Cineform master at the end. From there, I can render to the delivery formats.

Of all the money I've spent on video stuff, Cineform has probably delivered the most productivity improvement per dollar.

How does it compare to AVCHD on the timelime?

H264 is AVCHD

Colin, I tried to export them as you've mentioned (Mpeg4) but I noticed I still need to render them again in FCP. I also tried exporting the files in DV and no need to render except for the audio. Is there anything I missed? Is Mpeg4 better than DV? A newbie here.

Hey Ryan, check this out Apple - Support - Discussions - Tutorial: Using MPEG Streamclip with ...

An update for CS3 users who have Matrox RT.X2: I got test footage from T2i from a friend a few days ago. I downloaded Neo Scene (free trial) and converted some of the clips from .mov to .avi, a pretty simple process. I used Premiere CS3 1920X1080 preset that I created from scratch, based on XDCAM EX HQ 60i preset but using Progressive setting to import footage, then exported to HDV tape. This works fine if you want to archive footage on HDV tape, just takes awhile. You can then at anytime import footage for use with Matrox RT.X2 and edit in HDV in real time. If project will be edited later, this is a safe way to go.

A quicker solution for those ready to edit is to just take the Neo Scene 1920X1080 clips and drop them into a Matrox RT.X2 1440X1080 HDV timeline. Then, simply export to Movie, using Matrox 1440X1080 encoder. Don't bother rendering the clips, just a waste of time. Render will occur during export and will be quicker than first doing render and then doing export.

Example: You have half hour of Canon files to convert. First, import from SDHC memory card to media drive, should take less than real time, depending on speed of card and computer. Second, use Neo Scene to convert files, per above, again should take less than real time, depending on system. Third, import .avi Neo Scene files into Matrox HDV project, line up on timeline, clean up shots so you are just converting the good takes, then export to movie, per above. This last step will take the longest, probably double real time. Total time to convert half hour of footage? Probably 2 hours more or less, depending on system. However, once you import movie back into Matrox project, you are now in real time editing mode.

This is my intended workflow, at least for the next year or so. Once CS5 arrives and the bugs are worked out, I'm sure that will work better, but at a much, much higher cost than keeping CS3 with Matrox RT.X2.

You won't want to edit with Native Canon EOS MOV files, most CPU's bottleneck when scrubbing through these files on a timeline. It's very CPU intensive and not really meant for editing. Do you have access to Adobe Media Encoder? If so that'll help you to convert your files to another friendlier format.

If you don't mind spending $129, then look into Cineform Neoscene. You'd actually be upgrading the color sampling since the 7D records 4:1:1.

Quality won't improve but it's better to work with and it's rock solid, small, easy to install and batch convert. Powerful little program. I used to use it all the time when working with Premiere Pro, but I'm now back to Pavtube HD converter which converts the MOV files on import. Only $35, it does what I want & at a reasonable price.

How to convert HD MOV, MTS, TOD to be editable for Magix Movie Edit Pro 14?

I hope it will be of great help for you
hale

Just bought neoscene for my new 550D and everything runs great in CS4.

The great news is that you don't have to pay de official price of 129$

If you buy neoscene to videguys.com and use in checkout these coupons:

REGTEN
FINAL5

The final price will be 84$!!!

Edit:

If this is against the rules (marketing) please delete it, but It's not my intention to sell anything (I have no relation with videoguys or cineform) I just like to help.

thanks thaz sweet!

the best solution for convert mov files from 550d 7d 5d is Pinnacle Studio 14 i convert files to 1920x1080p at 30.000 birate and very good quality.

I'll second that - plays mov files fine - no transcoding!

What does it transcode it to? Something lossless?

Dunno. Just drag mov files to timeline, start editing. Files play back and edit in full resolution.

Why this is the -only- program that seems to do this, is beyond me. Perhaps because Pinnacle is part of AVID?

I have been using Vegas Pro 9

and batch process using this free script: Proxy Stream [1.5d]

Document sans nom




I render to: HQ 1920x1080-24p, 35 Mbps VBR

Works very well, quality is great.


You can also render to .mxf at 35 or 50 Mbps VBR

Rob

Hmmm... even so I'd be wary of editing the h.264 directly. Seems like it wouldn't hold up well to manipulation versus a lossless codec. Of course I don't know how Pinnacle does things, I've never used it.

Are you SURE about that?

It's not the only program to do this.

Editing native files seems pretty easy to me
 

I get RT playback using native .mov files for CC using Edius 5.12.
v5.5 may offer improved acceleration, due out at NAB.