Ideas on shoot this Friday at DVinfo.net

Sam Kanter · February 6th, 2011, 02:51 PM

I'm shooting a short this week in a church near times Square. It's an improvisation (documented another time, below), between dancer and bassist. Shooting with 5D2 and 60D, H2 audio recorder, variety of lenses (Canon 24-104L, 10-22, 50mm 1.8).

The bass player who will pluck, bow, and make other sounds with his bass while interacting with the dancer. This is a church near Times Square that has theatrical lights, and I will have lots of problems with car street noise which will possibly be edited out.

Unlike the documentation below, this will be a creative short that will be shot in many takes at different perspectives with two cameras, then edited together creatively. I'll have to find the best position to place the recorder, without it being seen on camera.

YouTube - In the Shadows (part 2)

Any helpful ideas about audio and video would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Jonny Norquist · February 7th, 2011, 03:05 AM

I have two suggestions, get a cheap tripod, and put your h2 on that, place it cleverly aimed at your victim, as close as possible without being seen by either camera.

Or, if you have a sibling or friend that wouldn't mind, place your h2 on a monopod, to hold over your subject or under. I've done this with great results with the h4n zoom.

Sam Kanter · February 7th, 2011, 11:01 AM

Thanks for the suggestion. If you look at the video, you'll see that a tripod or person would be in the shot.

I do have a tiny, tabletop tripod that might be small enough, however.

Dave Farrants · February 7th, 2011, 02:25 PM

Look at using a Zoom H1 instead, much smaller and could be hidden on the bass player.

Brian McKenna · February 7th, 2011, 06:17 PM

maybe a shotgun mic at a reasonable distance? results would depend on the acoustics of the space.

putting the recorder/mic on the musician might make for some undesirable handling noise...
...they will 'interact' with the dancer? depending on what you mean, that could be a problem if they have a mic on them for the same reason.

does the bassist have a pickup on their instrument? then you could just patch that direct in to a recorder and they could keep it in a pocket. an alternative the a pickup would be to tape an omni-directional lavalier under the bridge of the instrument.
this kind of thing would certainly benefit from (need) another mic to get the sound of the instrument in the space. using 2 recorders might not present any sync problems... but to be sure, with a wireless, you could transmit the lineout of one recorder to a spare channel on the other as a reference.

Sam Kanter · February 7th, 2011, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Farrants

Look at using a Zoom H1 instead, much smaller and could be hidden on the bass player.

As stated, any mic on the player would emit much noise as he is moving a lot, interacting with dancer.

Sam Kanter · February 7th, 2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McKenna

maybe a shotgun mic at a reasonable distance? results would depend on the acoustics of the space.

putting the recorder/mic on the musician might make for some undesirable handling noise...
...they will 'interact' with the dancer? depending on what you mean, that could be a problem if they have a mic on them for the same reason.

does the bassist have a pickup on their instrument? then you could just patch that direct in to a recorder and they could keep it in a pocket. an alternative the a pickup would be to tape an omni-directional lavalier under the bridge of the instrument.
this kind of thing would certainly benefit from (need) another mic to get the sound of the instrument in the space. using 2 recorders might not present any sync problems... but to be sure, with a wireless, you could transmit the lineout of one recorder to a spare channel on the other as a reference.

I will ask him about a pickup. I know he does electronic live "looping" in performance, so he must have one. Good idea!

Jonny Norquist · February 8th, 2011, 12:51 AM

Ah, well, here's a strange suggestion that may just be exactly what you need

Wildlife Sound Recording Society - Amberwood reflector

http://www.wildlife-sound.org/images...en_parabol.jpg

I haven't tested it, but now that I've just thought of doing this, I will give it a shot as well.

Dave Farrants · February 8th, 2011, 01:12 AM

I mentioned the H1 as a cheaper option, well placed it could work and be discretely hidden. If I was doing this I'd use a TRAM TR50 taped under top layer of clothing or hidden in lapel / clothing fold etc and wired to a radio mic TX worn on a belt at the back of the talent, the RX could then be input to Zoom or similar recorder within TX distance. These mics have an excellent pickup, can be used reversed and hidden under clothing, they give virtually no "clothes rustle" if the talent is moving around and are widely used in the film and TV industry for difficult sound situations

Brian McKenna · February 8th, 2011, 07:59 AM

...if the acoustics are nice, you might get away with a single, stereo recording from a well placed microphone.
if you can get a nice balance between the musician and the hall you're set. (i'm a big fan of m+s recording for this.)

Quote:

I will have lots of problems with car street noise which will possibly be edited out.

not much you can do about that, except accept it i suppose (remember the words of John Cage! it is NYC after all). but do get lots of room-tone recorded.

far worse than exterior noise, i think, are ventilation-systems within buildings. even when you can't hear the motors, the air pressures can be a real pain.
lighting grids are another one as sometimes the dimmers will buzz pretty loud.

Sam Kanter · February 8th, 2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Farrants

I mentioned the H1 as a cheaper option, well placed it could work and be discretely hidden. If I was doing this I'd use a TRAM TR50 taped under top layer of clothing or hidden in lapel / clothing fold etc and wired to a radio mic TX worn on a belt at the back of the talent, the RX could then be input to Zoom or similar recorder within TX distance. These mics have an excellent pickup, can be used reversed and hidden under clothing, they give virtually no "clothes rustle" if the talent is moving around and are widely used in the film and TV industry for difficult sound situations

I spoke to the musician, he said he didn't feel he could be encumbered by receivers or cables, and that his bass pickup wasn't very good quality.

Think I'll stay with Zoom recorders (have two), and deal with background noise in post. Thanks!

Sam Kanter · February 8th, 2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McKenna

...if the acoustics are nice, you might get away with a single, stereo recording from a well placed microphone.
if you can get a nice balance between the musician and the hall you're set. (i'm a big fan of m+s recording for this.)

not much you can do about that, except accept it i suppose (remember the words of John Cage! it is NYC after all). but do get lots of room-tone recorded.

.

I agree. I have two Zoom recorders (H2 and H4), I'll place at two locations behind pillars so they will be out of sight of cameras. Hopefully all will work out in post.

Thanks!

Any ideas about video that I may not have thought of?

Brian McKenna · February 9th, 2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kanter

Any ideas about video that I may not have thought of?

hmmm.
maybe set the white balance of both cameras to some fixed temp. (not auto)
the more you just 'keep it rolling', the easier it will be to sync sound to image in post.
...have fun!

Luke Gates · February 9th, 2011, 01:06 PM

I've never heard of a live show that wasn't mixed, and I've never seen a mixing board that didn't have a master channel stereo out. red/white stereo to stereo head phone jack cable for $6 from radio shack, chat with the sound guy who likely wouldn't care, and you're in business plugged directly into your H2!

Sam Kanter · February 9th, 2011, 02:58 PM

This is not a live show, and there is no mixing board. All A/V must be provided by me.

February 6th, 2011, 02:51 PM	#1
Sam Kanter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New York Posts: 205	Ideas on shoot this Friday I'm shooting a short this week in a church near times Square. It's an improvisation (documented another time, below), between dancer and bassist. Shooting with 5D2 and 60D, H2 audio recorder, variety of lenses (Canon 24-104L, 10-22, 50mm 1.8). The bass player who will pluck, bow, and make other sounds with his bass while interacting with the dancer. This is a church near Times Square that has theatrical lights, and I will have lots of problems with car street noise which will possibly be edited out. Unlike the documentation below, this will be a creative short that will be shot in many takes at different perspectives with two cameras, then edited together creatively. I'll have to find the best position to place the recorder, without it being seen on camera. YouTube - In the Shadows (part 2) Any helpful ideas about audio and video would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

February 7th, 2011, 03:05 AM	#2
Jonny Norquist Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 30	I have two suggestions, get a cheap tripod, and put your h2 on that, place it cleverly aimed at your victim, as close as possible without being seen by either camera. Or, if you have a sibling or friend that wouldn't mind, place your h2 on a monopod, to hold over your subject or under. I've done this with great results with the h4n zoom.

February 7th, 2011, 11:01 AM	#3
Sam Kanter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New York Posts: 205	Thanks for the suggestion. If you look at the video, you'll see that a tripod or person would be in the shot. I do have a tiny, tabletop tripod that might be small enough, however.

February 7th, 2011, 02:25 PM	#4
Dave Farrants Major Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Gloucs, UK Posts: 214	Look at using a Zoom H1 instead, much smaller and could be hidden on the bass player.

February 7th, 2011, 06:17 PM	#5
Brian McKenna Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: canada Posts: 57	maybe a shotgun mic at a reasonable distance? results would depend on the acoustics of the space. putting the recorder/mic on the musician might make for some undesirable handling noise... ...they will 'interact' with the dancer? depending on what you mean, that could be a problem if they have a mic on them for the same reason. does the bassist have a pickup on their instrument? then you could just patch that direct in to a recorder and they could keep it in a pocket. an alternative the a pickup would be to tape an omni-directional lavalier under the bridge of the instrument. this kind of thing would certainly benefit from (need) another mic to get the sound of the instrument in the space. using 2 recorders might not present any sync problems... but to be sure, with a wireless, you could transmit the lineout of one recorder to a spare channel on the other as a reference.

February 8th, 2011, 12:51 AM	#8
Jonny Norquist Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 30	Ah, well, here's a strange suggestion that may just be exactly what you need Wildlife Sound Recording Society - Amberwood reflector http://www.wildlife-sound.org/images...en_parabol.jpg I haven't tested it, but now that I've just thought of doing this, I will give it a shot as well.

February 8th, 2011, 01:12 AM	#9
Dave Farrants Major Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Gloucs, UK Posts: 214	I mentioned the H1 as a cheaper option, well placed it could work and be discretely hidden. If I was doing this I'd use a TRAM TR50 taped under top layer of clothing or hidden in lapel / clothing fold etc and wired to a radio mic TX worn on a belt at the back of the talent, the RX could then be input to Zoom or similar recorder within TX distance. These mics have an excellent pickup, can be used reversed and hidden under clothing, they give virtually no "clothes rustle" if the talent is moving around and are widely used in the film and TV industry for difficult sound situations

February 9th, 2011, 01:06 PM	#14
Luke Gates Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: new jersey Posts: 151	I've never heard of a live show that wasn't mixed, and I've never seen a mixing board that didn't have a master channel stereo out. red/white stereo to stereo head phone jack cable for $6 from radio shack, chat with the sound guy who likely wouldn't care, and you're in business plugged directly into your H2!

February 9th, 2011, 02:58 PM	#15
Sam Kanter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New York Posts: 205	This is not a live show, and there is no mixing board. All A/V must be provided by me.