Shooting Speeds

Martin Campbell · June 9th, 2011, 08:13 AM

I ask this as I have been shooting at 50th for the past 10 months. Only recently as I have questioned the quality on my Tokina wide 11-16 lens and reading a thread on here am I starting to question that.

I ran a couple of test shots and it looked as though I was getting a slightly sharper image with the Tokina lens on shooting at 100th, and a VERY slightly softer less detailed shot shooting at 50th. Does that sound right?

The reason for this confusion is that before I bought the camera I was told that you should really have the camera set at 50th to double the frame rate shooting at (25p). I knew it was safe to shoot 100th but wasn't entirely sure.

Any thoughts?

Liam Hall · June 9th, 2011, 11:24 AM

That's normal.

A higher shutter speed will result in a sharper image as there is less motion blur. The downside is that it will cause strobing. It will be fine on some shots, no so on others.

Your 11-16 should be pin sharp shooting at 1/50th. Mine is. Can you post a video showing your problem with that lens?

Chris Medico · June 9th, 2011, 11:28 AM

You can shoot 1/100 and be fine. I wouldn't go much above that or the image will start looking jittery.

Were you shooting from a tripod or hand held?

I have found that it is nearly impossible to shoot sharp video from with the 7d handheld. You really have to mount it on some kind of a frame to reduce the micro vibrations that softens the image a good bit.

One of my favorite things to do is use the camera on a short jib even for pans and such. To me it looks so much better than a normal pan on a tripod.

Martin Campbell · June 9th, 2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam Hall

That's normal.

A higher shutter speed will result in a sharper image as there is less motion blur. The downside is that it will cause strobing. It will be fine on some shots, no so on others.

Your 11-16 should be pin sharp shooting at 1/50th. Mine is. Can you post a video showing your problem with that lens?

I'll see if I can Liam. I usually do try to do all the stuff on tripod because it does not have IS.

Thanks for the reply.

Jon Fairhurst · June 9th, 2011, 07:16 PM

I prefer shooting 1/50 or 1/60 (under 60 Hz lights) - or 1/250 or faster. I either want normal filmic motion, or I want a fast shutter special effect. The risk with 1/100 is that it will look normal until something moves, and then it will look a bit wrong. That's the dead zone. You either want a special effect or you don't. If the audience isn't sure, it can take them out of the story.

Martin Campbell · June 13th, 2011, 11:36 AM

Johnnie Behiri on this forum shot slow-mo stuff at 1/1600th! Here's a link to his post.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...w-twixtor.html

I would have thought shooting at this speed, the footage would be supper jittery!

Liam Hall · June 14th, 2011, 06:27 AM

It's not jittery because Twixtor makes the in-between frames. It doesn't always work, but when it does it is very effective.

Martin Campbell · June 14th, 2011, 10:02 AM

So - shooting at 1/1600 - do you think it would work with, say, filming a golf swing? Or would I be better at 1/50 as normal?

Martin Campbell · June 14th, 2011, 10:03 AM

to achieve something similar to the first scene here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bVATEqz9oY

Jon Fairhurst · June 14th, 2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Campbell

So - shooting at 1/1600 - do you think it would work with, say, filming a golf swing? Or would I be better at 1/50 as normal?

You would need a true slo-mo cam for a golf swing, assuming that you want to slow it down.

Shoot the swing at 1/50 for real time playback and you will get 1/2 motion blur and 1/2 gaps. That's the classic film look. With rolling shutter, the club will likely bend a bit too.

Shoot the swing at a very fast shutter, say 1/1000, and you will get a staccato look. Because a golf swing is fast - probably 150 mph at the head for a top golfer - the gaps would be huge. In fact, they might be so large that the brain hardly connects the images.

And that's the problem for Twixtor. It can build a number of frames between two shots that are close, but if the gaps are huge it wouldn't know if the golf club swings through an angle, moves in a straight line, of if it simply appears and disappears. It might not figure out that the club at 90 degrees is the same object as the club at 45 degrees.

So, Twixtor isn't likely to do what you want. For real time 1/50 works. 1/1000 might be too sparse. 1/100 to 1/200 would still have blur and will also stutter, but it might give you an intense yet connected look that you like.

The bottom line - test different speeds and see what appeals to you.

Martin Campbell · June 14th, 2011, 11:18 AM

thanks for that Jon. Yes shooting at 50fps was not great in Twixtor and as you say, the 'created' gap frames didn't look right. I'll perhaps get the guy to swing the club and shoot it at different speeds to see what the best result is.

With the sample clip I put the link to - how many fps would you reckon that was probably shot at?

June 9th, 2011, 08:13 AM	#1
Martin Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London Posts: 104	Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? I ask this as I have been shooting at 50th for the past 10 months. Only recently as I have questioned the quality on my Tokina wide 11-16 lens and reading a thread on here am I starting to question that. I ran a couple of test shots and it looked as though I was getting a slightly sharper image with the Tokina lens on shooting at 100th, and a VERY slightly softer less detailed shot shooting at 50th. Does that sound right? The reason for this confusion is that before I bought the camera I was told that you should really have the camera set at 50th to double the frame rate shooting at (25p). I knew it was safe to shoot 100th but wasn't entirely sure. Any thoughts?

June 9th, 2011, 11:24 AM	#2
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? That's normal. A higher shutter speed will result in a sharper image as there is less motion blur. The downside is that it will cause strobing. It will be fine on some shots, no so on others. Your 11-16 should be pin sharp shooting at 1/50th. Mine is. Can you post a video showing your problem with that lens? __________________ Writer-Director-DOP www.liamhall.net

June 9th, 2011, 11:28 AM	#3
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? You can shoot 1/100 and be fine. I wouldn't go much above that or the image will start looking jittery. Were you shooting from a tripod or hand held? I have found that it is nearly impossible to shoot sharp video from with the 7d handheld. You really have to mount it on some kind of a frame to reduce the micro vibrations that softens the image a good bit. One of my favorite things to do is use the camera on a short jib even for pans and such. To me it looks so much better than a normal pan on a tripod. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

June 9th, 2011, 07:16 PM	#5
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? I prefer shooting 1/50 or 1/60 (under 60 Hz lights) - or 1/250 or faster. I either want normal filmic motion, or I want a fast shutter special effect. The risk with 1/100 is that it will look normal until something moves, and then it will look a bit wrong. That's the dead zone. You either want a special effect or you don't. If the audience isn't sure, it can take them out of the story. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 13th, 2011, 11:36 AM	#6
Martin Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London Posts: 104	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? Johnnie Behiri on this forum shot slow-mo stuff at 1/1600th! Here's a link to his post. http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...w-twixtor.html I would have thought shooting at this speed, the footage would be supper jittery!

June 14th, 2011, 06:27 AM	#7
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? It's not jittery because Twixtor makes the in-between frames. It doesn't always work, but when it does it is very effective. __________________ Writer-Director-DOP www.liamhall.net

June 14th, 2011, 10:02 AM	#8
Martin Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London Posts: 104	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? So - shooting at 1/1600 - do you think it would work with, say, filming a golf swing? Or would I be better at 1/50 as normal?

June 14th, 2011, 10:03 AM	#9
Martin Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London Posts: 104	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? to achieve something similar to the first scene here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bVATEqz9oY

June 14th, 2011, 11:18 AM	#11
Martin Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London Posts: 104	Re: Shooting Speeds - 50th or 100th? thanks for that Jon. Yes shooting at 50fps was not great in Twixtor and as you say, the 'created' gap frames didn't look right. I'll perhaps get the guy to swing the club and shoot it at different speeds to see what the best result is. With the sample clip I put the link to - how many fps would you reckon that was probably shot at?