Wonky looking footage!

Bill Grant · June 17th, 2011, 02:06 PM

Michael, are you shooting auto ISO? Also, I think your aperture is way open for this type of movement. It would be very difficult to keep these guys in focus. If you push the ISO a bit and drop your aperture to f/8 or so, then you should find your sharpness improve. This is not a great environment for a DSLR anyway with all of the complex movement. Focus is a BEAST!
Bill

Michael Herrick · June 17th, 2011, 03:40 PM

Ya I understand that, I was trying to get that shallow dof with bigger apertures to get that film look. But regardless of aperture, even when stuff is in focus, it just doesn't look crisp or clean really

James Donnelly · June 17th, 2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Herrick

Ok I'll see if I can recall all my settings, I was using fairly standard settings i believe
Shutter Speed-Probably 1/50 for 24fps footage and 1/125 or a little bit higher for 60fps footage
Lens- Kit lens and 50mm 1.8
Aperture-Ranged from 2.8 to 5.6 or higher
Filters-Uv filter and nd filter on some shots
Compression settings- I am not sure what you are referring too here

I was referring to the final render. Bitrate, codec, etc. Not entirely relevant because you state that the original footage is bad too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Herrick

Ya I understand that, I was trying to get that shallow dof with bigger apertures to get that film look. But regardless of aperture, even when stuff is in focus, it just doesn't look crisp or clean really

I think Bill's right, it is going to be impossible to keep such fast moving subjects in focus with such wide apertures. Remember, at f/2.8 your DOF on a 50mm at 10 feet will be about a foot, and even at f/5.6 it will only be 2 and a half feet.

I was guessing you used an ND when I mentioned that your DOF looked shallow. The sharpness loss from ND's can be dramatic. You lose a bit of tonal range too. What one are you using?

Bill Grant · June 17th, 2011, 04:02 PM

Remember also to be very cognizant of the time of day you're shooting in. Especially if you're doing a promo. If you had more angular light, you would've been able to control the exposure and focus a little better. I just watched it back again, and your major issue for me is overall exposure. Higher ISO will help you stop down and get more in focus, but in general the exposure is way too low on the subject. I think that's your major issue.
Bill

Michael Herrick · June 18th, 2011, 02:46 AM

I was using a b+w nd filter, I think, but i am not sure

I used one of the internet 1080p presets providing in vegas 10, it exports it as an mp4 file, thats about all i know about it, I am a little unsure about my render settings

Ya I think the exposure is a big problem, I usually try to look at the cameras light meter and go a little bit below that because i feel that the cameras meter over exposes it a little, but maybe i need to trust it more\

Michael Herrick · June 18th, 2011, 02:47 AM

And Bill, when you mean angular light, you just mean go early in the morning or later in the afternoon right?

Bill Grant · June 18th, 2011, 09:42 AM

Yes, sorry. Right. Late afternoon or early morning. Then you don't get the direct swatches of bright sunlight against dark shadows. This can make or break a shot regardless of camera or operator. And don't trust the meter, trust your eyes. The meter sees those bright patches and tends to force underexposure. You need to blow away those brights in favor of the shadows. Again, love the Rage.
Bill

Michael Herrick · June 18th, 2011, 02:52 PM

Ha thanks, Rage is good, but I've found that the lcd on the camera seems to make things brighter than they actually are. To me, It looks good on the lcd, but then when i get home at put it on the computer, it looks much darker

Michael Herrick · June 18th, 2011, 11:49 PM

Looking at this footage and past footage I have taken, they all look very blurry and not sharp at all, even though when i know something is in perfect focus, it doesn't make any sense. 1920x1080 footage on my 1920x1080 laptop screen looks awful, it looks like it's beeing blown up to fit the screen, when i know it's not. No matter what my aperture or even my iso settings are(even though i know i never go above 400), it shouldn't look this bad i don't think. Can anyone help me out? is it possible my camera is a lemon?

Bill Grant · June 19th, 2011, 09:23 AM

Michael,
I regularly shoot at 2500ISO and have no issue.Do a search for mechanical ISOs 160, 320, 640, 1250, and 2500 and push your ISO in leiu of a open aperture. Oh wait you can't do that on the t2i can you? Can somebody verify that? If you can shoot in that situation even at 640 or 1250 with an f/8 you're probably going to get sharper footage. Again, conditions are king. You will struggle in that condition no matter your camera or setting. You are also not using the best lenses. That 50 1.8 can be sharp but the kit lens is junky junky. That may not be your problem, but certainly limits your flexibility.
Bill

Michael Herrick · June 19th, 2011, 05:27 PM

Well, I am going to go do some testing and see what i can find, hopefully I can get the footage looking good, I'll get back to you guys with my results?

Michael Herrick · June 20th, 2011, 11:22 AM

check out this clip that came straight from the camera, no editing or rendering. No matter what settings I use, It shouldn't look like this i feel

Jon Fairhurst · June 20th, 2011, 11:51 AM

For this shot, you want to stop down - or open up - the lens more. The trees in the background are just a bit out of focus while there is no subject in the frame. Edit so the entire clip includes the rider. Track the rider with your focus. If you want everything in focus, stop down to f/11 or more - but still track the rider. If you want shallow DOF, go with f/1.8 on the 50mm lens - and use ND filters in order to manage your shutter speed. Of course, pulling focus with that much motion and with shallow DOF will be tough. Don't try this without a follow focus.

I'm guessing that this was shot with the stock zoom lens. This looks like low quality glass.

You can also improve things with grading - increase the contrast, saturation (especially green), and increase the sharpness in post.

Also, track the rider with the tripod. It continues to pan left after he turns to exit the right side of the frame. You want your editing and motion to draw the viewer's eyes to the rider. A higher end tripod would probably also help you achieve smoother movement.

Michael Herrick · June 20th, 2011, 05:36 PM

heres another clip stopped down to f/11 with a Tamron 28-75 which is a decent lens
still looks fuzzy and weird to me

Jon Fairhurst · June 20th, 2011, 06:15 PM

Are you sure that you have critical focus? The focus looks best on the distant objects, after you have panned to the left. Of course, the chair is blurred, since it is much closer than the fence.

You can get critical focus by zooming in by x5 or x10 and focusing.

Also, is there a reason that you are shooting 720p60? Normally, this is used for slow motion. Try shooting 1080p24 or 1080p30. If you are viewing this full screen on a high res monitor, it will look blurry. It's not too bad at 1:1.

I shoot neutral with contrast and sharpness all the way down. And I always apply curves and sharpening in post.

And try shooting with your prime lens. Your Tamron zoom is not likely to be as sharp as the 50/1.8 prime.

June 17th, 2011, 02:06 PM	#16
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Re: Wonky looking footage! Michael, are you shooting auto ISO? Also, I think your aperture is way open for this type of movement. It would be very difficult to keep these guys in focus. If you push the ISO a bit and drop your aperture to f/8 or so, then you should find your sharpness improve. This is not a great environment for a DSLR anyway with all of the complex movement. Focus is a BEAST! Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

June 17th, 2011, 03:40 PM	#17
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! Ya I understand that, I was trying to get that shallow dof with bigger apertures to get that film look. But regardless of aperture, even when stuff is in focus, it just doesn't look crisp or clean really

June 17th, 2011, 04:02 PM	#19
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Re: Wonky looking footage! Remember also to be very cognizant of the time of day you're shooting in. Especially if you're doing a promo. If you had more angular light, you would've been able to control the exposure and focus a little better. I just watched it back again, and your major issue for me is overall exposure. Higher ISO will help you stop down and get more in focus, but in general the exposure is way too low on the subject. I think that's your major issue. Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

June 18th, 2011, 02:46 AM	#20
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! I was using a b+w nd filter, I think, but i am not sure I used one of the internet 1080p presets providing in vegas 10, it exports it as an mp4 file, thats about all i know about it, I am a little unsure about my render settings Ya I think the exposure is a big problem, I usually try to look at the cameras light meter and go a little bit below that because i feel that the cameras meter over exposes it a little, but maybe i need to trust it more\

June 18th, 2011, 02:47 AM	#21
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! And Bill, when you mean angular light, you just mean go early in the morning or later in the afternoon right?

June 18th, 2011, 09:42 AM	#22
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Re: Wonky looking footage! Yes, sorry. Right. Late afternoon or early morning. Then you don't get the direct swatches of bright sunlight against dark shadows. This can make or break a shot regardless of camera or operator. And don't trust the meter, trust your eyes. The meter sees those bright patches and tends to force underexposure. You need to blow away those brights in favor of the shadows. Again, love the Rage. Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

June 18th, 2011, 02:52 PM	#23
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! Ha thanks, Rage is good, but I've found that the lcd on the camera seems to make things brighter than they actually are. To me, It looks good on the lcd, but then when i get home at put it on the computer, it looks much darker

June 18th, 2011, 11:49 PM	#24
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! Looking at this footage and past footage I have taken, they all look very blurry and not sharp at all, even though when i know something is in perfect focus, it doesn't make any sense. 1920x1080 footage on my 1920x1080 laptop screen looks awful, it looks like it's beeing blown up to fit the screen, when i know it's not. No matter what my aperture or even my iso settings are(even though i know i never go above 400), it shouldn't look this bad i don't think. Can anyone help me out? is it possible my camera is a lemon?

June 19th, 2011, 09:23 AM	#25
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Re: Wonky looking footage! Michael, I regularly shoot at 2500ISO and have no issue.Do a search for mechanical ISOs 160, 320, 640, 1250, and 2500 and push your ISO in leiu of a open aperture. Oh wait you can't do that on the t2i can you? Can somebody verify that? If you can shoot in that situation even at 640 or 1250 with an f/8 you're probably going to get sharper footage. Again, conditions are king. You will struggle in that condition no matter your camera or setting. You are also not using the best lenses. That 50 1.8 can be sharp but the kit lens is junky junky. That may not be your problem, but certainly limits your flexibility. Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

June 19th, 2011, 05:27 PM	#26
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! Well, I am going to go do some testing and see what i can find, hopefully I can get the footage looking good, I'll get back to you guys with my results?

June 20th, 2011, 11:22 AM	#27
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! check out this clip that came straight from the camera, no editing or rendering. No matter what settings I use, It shouldn't look like this i feel Why does this look so bad? on Vimeo

June 20th, 2011, 11:51 AM	#28
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Wonky looking footage! For this shot, you want to stop down - or open up - the lens more. The trees in the background are just a bit out of focus while there is no subject in the frame. Edit so the entire clip includes the rider. Track the rider with your focus. If you want everything in focus, stop down to f/11 or more - but still track the rider. If you want shallow DOF, go with f/1.8 on the 50mm lens - and use ND filters in order to manage your shutter speed. Of course, pulling focus with that much motion and with shallow DOF will be tough. Don't try this without a follow focus. I'm guessing that this was shot with the stock zoom lens. This looks like low quality glass. You can also improve things with grading - increase the contrast, saturation (especially green), and increase the sharpness in post. Also, track the rider with the tripod. It continues to pan left after he turns to exit the right side of the frame. You want your editing and motion to draw the viewer's eyes to the rider. A higher end tripod would probably also help you achieve smoother movement. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 20th, 2011, 05:36 PM	#29
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Wonky looking footage! Why does this look so bad pt II on Vimeo heres another clip stopped down to f/11 with a Tamron 28-75 which is a decent lens still looks fuzzy and weird to me

June 20th, 2011, 06:15 PM	#30
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Wonky looking footage! Are you sure that you have critical focus? The focus looks best on the distant objects, after you have panned to the left. Of course, the chair is blurred, since it is much closer than the fence. You can get critical focus by zooming in by x5 or x10 and focusing. Also, is there a reason that you are shooting 720p60? Normally, this is used for slow motion. Try shooting 1080p24 or 1080p30. If you are viewing this full screen on a high res monitor, it will look blurry. It's not too bad at 1:1. I shoot neutral with contrast and sharpness all the way down. And I always apply curves and sharpening in post. And try shooting with your prime lens. Your Tamron zoom is not likely to be as sharp as the 50/1.8 prime. __________________ Jon Fairhurst