EOS M thread
 

Is this the first post on the M? I can't seem to find another. Picked one up today. Shall we start a bit of a discussion on it? First impressions are very positive, with a few caveats. It's not an HDSLR, that's for sure. but the image quality and features are quite impressive.

Re: EOS M thread
 

We have an EOS M discussion thread in our news forum at http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...-c-camera.html

No reason why we can't start another, though. I was very close to picking up one of these cams but there seem to be quite a few complaints about how slow the auto focus response is. Has that been an issue for you at all yet?

Re: EOS M thread
 

Those smart guys at Magic Lantern have already cracked it. And are working hard to incorporate ML to improve the M.

Re: EOS M thread
 

Yes, the autofocus is pretty poor. I manually focus everyhing so it's not an issue. It's an odd camera, and i think that ML would be a huge upgrade to it. I have liked having a large sensor camera in my backpack, and with the 22mm pancake lens, it is very small. Given my large amount of Canon glass, it's a good fit. But if i didn't have canon glass or didn't care, i would likely have looked elsewhere. Not a replacement for a 7d but an addition. Cover photo at Olympic Peninsula Environmental News this month is one i shot, with the 22. Cropped it by 1/3rd, and the image is beautiful. No color correction done.

Re: EOS M thread
 

anyone ever shoot video with the canon eos m?

Re: EOS M thread
 

Yes, what do you want to know about it? Like a 7d.

Re: EOS M thread
 

I just ordered a Fotodiox EOS to EOS-M adapter.

Looking closely at the photos, I'm wondering if the Fotodiox and Canon adapters aren't made by the same supplier. Aside from the printing, the two devices look identical. The Fotodiox costs about 40% of the Canon price. Once I receive mine, I'll be curious to take it to the camera shop to compare with the official version.

BTW, I don't buy non-Canon batteries. Mine are nearly five years old now and seem to hold a charge as well as when they were new. That said, I've purchased a Fotodiox adapter before and it worked a charm. I'll see if it was the smart purchase...

Given that my other cam is a 5D2, I'm looking forward to having a crop B-cam. My longest lens is a 100. I'll now get close to the 200L that I sold. I don't own a fast 85 right now but the 50/1.4 will now be a great interview lens. And my 16-35 is an ultrawide to wide zoom on one cam and a wide to normal zoom on the other. It's almost like doubling my lens collection. :)

Re: EOS M thread
 

after a VERY helpful phone chat with Al, I decided to purchase the Eos-M from B&H.

i find it remarkable that we are "just" virtual on this forum, and then after a real live conversation, we "re-vert" back to actually being...well, real!

thank you Al for being real.

as I said on the phone, if you are ever in NYC i owe you a cup of coffee or a beer, your choice.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Re: EOS M thread
 

Hi Rob,

Any particular points from Al that convinced you to purchase the EOS-M?

(And if you're ever in Camas, WA, I'm happy to share a beer or coffee too. :) )

Re: EOS M thread
 

Thanks for the kind words Rob. I'll let him talk to what he appreciated in our call. (so nice to actually talk to one of us over the phone! and I will take you up on the offer of coffee if I get to NYC). And Jon, I do get down near Portland sometimes, so I'll make a note to give you a call. Feel free to email me if you are headed up to the Olympic Peninsula.

My point is that for less than $400 you get a B cam or travel camera that is essentially a 7D in a small form factor with great ability to do shallow DOF shooting. It has limitations, no headphone jack (needs to be added in the next "pro" version), no real time audio monitoring, but from what I gathered from Rob, and from my needs, it's a great cheap camera, that uses all my 7D EFS lenses. Video has the same limitations of the 7D, meaning moire, and I don't care about autofocus and can usually set and forget my audio meters, as my subjects don't usually vary a great deal in the kind of circumstances I'd use my M for. I always have more professional cameras for those situations.

Obviously, if you can wait for the new model, and pay the almost $800 it likely is to come in at, I would wait, as it likely will have the audio headphone jack and maybe a working viewfinder, which I would prefer for 22mm pancake shooting.

But I did find that for the Grand Canyon 8 days with 2 batteries it worked great, no complaints, other than I could have used one more battery for all 8 days. My second battery ran out the 7th day.

Another great Canon cheap camera is the Powershot G15. I traveled all over the world with a powershot, in the years just prior to getting "back into" video production. I took some shots with that camera that I still use in my professional portfolio. I highly recommend it. It actually has a viewfinder too!
This is one such shot reduced in size from the original. The best camera you have is the one that's with you when you see the shot, as they say!

http://www.mountainstoneproductions....f%201%29-S.jpg

Re: EOS M thread
 

jon-

al offered some real-world experience as to the eos-m with the just released upgraded firmware.

i believe most of the scorn that this camera generated was due to "turtle-like" autofocus speed and the $800 price tag.

i bought via the $299/b&h sale, i couldn't help myself!

the eos-m should arrive today.

having NEVER used a canon dslr, i'm looking forward to seeing if the eos-m is a capable pocket still shooter AND a small, very portable one-person interview camera.

since the af speed is a wee bit better thanks to the firmware update and the price is now 67.5% of the original list, along with a capable 3.5mm audio port, i figured i'll take a flyer.

fingers crossed.

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Re: EOS M thread
 

the eos-m arrived as promised.

i do love those guys at b&h!

(I also love the folks at abel cine!)

camera feels small but solid.

it looks smaller than my sony nex 5n and the canon 18-55mm zoom doesn't look as silly as the 18-55mm kit lens looks on the nex 5n.

this being my first canon eos camera, i spent the afternoon reading blogs and watching operational vids about canon dslrs till i was bleary.

after i unboxed and charged the battery, i went thru the menu settings.

i then discovered that the eos-m already came with the updated 2.0.2 firmware!

yeah, man :-)

and sure enough, in my very unscientific manner, in still mode the eos-m autofocused as quick as the sony nex 5n that was sat right alongside and was aimed at the same objects.

i'm excited.

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Re: EOS M thread
 

I expect mine to arrive Monday...

As an interview camera, you'll want an adapter and 50mm prime. The 22mm field of view is my favorite general purpose view, but it's not long enough for interviews and the zoom isn't fast enough to really blur the background. I expect to receive a Fotodiox adapter next week and will share a quick review.

For audio, take a look at the juicedLink preamps. Crank it up and run the camera one tick over the minumum and you'll get very good results without needing to sync. Combine that with a wired lav and you're set for interviews. (With a wireless setup, you can likely skip the preamp if the receiver has a hot enough output.) For walking around, the Rode Video Mic Pro is a good match with DSLRs, though an on camera mic is only so good.

We will see about auto focus. Hopefully, it's usable as I also plan to use the M for video and stills.

One thing I just realized is that this camera might not be loupe friendly. At home, I have a Hoodman 3x loupe and a RedRock mount that should work with the M. But it would block the touch screen, so the loupe idea could be a fail. We will see...

Best of luck with your new camera!

Re: EOS M thread
 

jon-

2 day ship vs 4 day ship = east coast versus west coast.

c'est la vie.

nice to see we are thinking along the same lines.

when i put the order into b&h, i then ordered via amazon a cheapo pentax pk mount -> canon ef-m mount adapter. i started out in high school as a pentax guy and still have all those mf lenses. their crummy kit lens from the 70s, the m50/f2 is one of my standard interview lens with my fs100. funny, huh? (i found that older women look great to my eyes when i use the older pentax glass!)

i hope the canon ef-m mount sticks around long enough for 3rd parties to jump in and create adapters in the same way the sony e mount managed to get some interest.

as for sound, the BIGGEST drawback the eos-m has is the lack of a headphone input thus the inability to monitor sound. my workaround was going to be wiring my sound devices mix pre 3.5mm out to the eos-m 3.5mm input and rely on the mix pre's battery power, to employ several xlr mics. that does mean adding a device to the food chain, albeit the mix pre is smallish and can be operated at waist level.

if i want to get REALLY skinny, i have used a real cheap, battery powered lav-Audio-Technica ATR3350 Omnidirectional Condenser Lavalier Microphone-and darn, if this junky $20 mic hasn't gotten the job done. The only issues with this mic is build quality, size and it chews batteries. That said, I treat it gentle, my talking head shots often have the lav just south of frame, and the batteries are really cheap. I would test the levels via playback with the lav directly into the eos-m and pray (not a situation that makes me feel comfortable but that is tomorrow's headache not today's)

I haven't mounted a mic on my camera in a really long time. I have read that folks like the rode. I have both the ntg2 and the ntg3 so i am a fan of their products. which rode do you have, the update "pro" or the original? and can it really do a decent job as an interview mic less than 6 feet from the subject?

lastly, i also spent a moment wondering about how to "see" the lcd in bright sunshine. a sunshade might be the best solution. on my nex 5n, i have a vello glass overlay that has been great about scratches but just decent as a sun guard. i do realize that i will need step-up rings or another vari nd if i want to use the eos-m outside.

another tool in the bag.

i just need to find ways to work this camera into my efforts.

i look forward to your thoughts when you unbox and play.

is the eos-m a tool or a toy?

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Re: EOS M thread
 

Glad you liked it! Great that it came with the new firmware, to save you a step. I'm just sorry I bought it at the original price, but it's served me well already. And yes, if in a pinch I needed to run this for my primary interview camera, I would hook up my Mixpre-D and monitor directly. Now if Canon reads this and sends me the new model to review on their behalf, I'd be quite happy (not likely that will happen, and just to be clear, I certainly had no financial stake in any of this, other than to see more people shooting with this camera.

Happy shooting. Have a great weekend.

Re: EOS M thread
 

Rob, I expect your older glass to work a treat. AF speed is moot with manual glass. :)

I have the "pro" version of the Rode Videomic, which has gain. That's the key. You should be golden with the MixPre and an adapter cable. Just keep the cable short to minimize RF pickup.

The Rode VMP won't get good sound from six feet, but it has served me well for tradeshow interviews. In the past, I've used a 5D2 with a 35mm lens (hey, like the 22mm crop lens!) on a monopod at CES, NAB, and LightFair. Unlike a formal interview, a tradeshow interview needs to be up close so people don't walk in front of the camera. And the wider lens gets tradeshow eyecandy and can easily tilt down to see a product in the hand. With that setup, the mic is only about 2-3 feet from the subject. Tradeshow floors are so noisy that nobody expects perfect sound anyway.

I have a friend who shot news for a decade or more. When he needed to do a solo interview, he'd go wide with the lens, get close to the subject, pull the mic from the holder, and hold it as close as possible to the subject with his left hand while operating the camera with his right. At tradeshows, I'm using a similar approach, but with too short a cable to hold the mic in the left hand.

FWIW, my other key tool is a monopod. I put it on the floor for a fixed interview, tuck it in my belt when I want to act as a human tripod, and hold it at the balance point when walking like it's a faux stabilizer. The result is "lively", so you are aware of the human behind the camera, but it's well controlled compared to handholding these things.

Regarding NDs, I mainly use a 3 stop and apply a circular polarizer as well for another two. That gets me close. I'd like to get an additional 6 stop ND for smooth timelapses. But for the M, a fader-type makes a lot of sense. I can adjust things quickly with buttons on the 5D2 and it has such low noise that I can over-stop the light and compensate with a higher ISO when needed. The M lacks buttons, has somewhat more noise, and doesn't offer 1/3 stop ISOs, so a fader would likely nail exposure faster and better than you can with a fixed ND.

Looking forward to the new, little camera!

Re: EOS M thread
 

Good news and bad news (for me)...

The good news is that I received the Fotodiox adapter yesterday.

The bad news is that they sent me the basic one without the electronic connections and tripod mount.

Their shipping was quick. Hopefully, their customer service is also efficient. FWIW, the basic version mounts to my EOS lenses very solidly with no play at all, as far as I can sense.

Re: EOS M thread
 

I picked up a used Canon adapter a while back, I think it was from Adorama. The don't have anymore but there seem to be quite a few on ebay.

Re: EOS M thread
 

Hey Jon,
I am also interested in the Fotodiox EOS EF to EOS-M adapter for my EOS M camera that I should get delivery on this Friday. What is the exact model number of the adapter and a link to it?

Alex

Re: EOS M thread
 

This is the one I ordered and would recommend:

Pro Lens Adapter, Canon EOS Mount Lens to Canon EOS-M Mount Camera Automatic Lens Mount Adapter - with Full Automated Functions

This is the one I received, which doesn't include the electronic contacts:

Fotodiox Canon EOS Mount Lens to Canon EOS-M Mount Camera Lens Mount Adapter

I contacted them today and am waiting for a response...

Re: EOS M thread
 

thanx Jon. Do you mind telling me how much it cost you and where you bought it?

Alex

Re: EOS M thread
 

I purchased directly from the web link shown for $69.95. Shipping was like five bucks and it arrived in two days on the west coast.

Re: EOS M thread
 

thanx Jon. I appreciate the info. Keep us informed here when you get your replacement.

alex

Re: EOS M thread
 

Will do.

BTW, the Canon version costs $189 and is backordered by a week or two. That made the Fotodiox purchase feel painless by comparison. :)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/883406-REG/Canon_6098b002_EF_M_Lens_Adapter_Kit.html
I have a Nikon to EOS pro-version adapter from Fotodiox and it was of nice quality. If anything, you get more for your money from them today than back in 2009 when I bought that adapter...

Re: EOS M thread
 

Jon,
I forgot to ask you, that Fotodiox adapter is for Canon EF and EF-S lenses to mount on the EOS M camera, correct? Just double checking cus it only says EOS lenses. I just ordered one. Thanks for the heads up. I am aware of what the Canon one costs. :-)

Alex

Re: EOS M thread
 

i have been playing with my new-to-me canon eos-m.

since i am not a dslr shooter, i really need to spend a moment understanding this camera, its menus and its capabilities.

that said, i have taken several stills and it does a nice job with raw and jpegs.

my camera shipped with the firmware update 2.0.2.

the autofocus is as quick and accurate as any still camera i have used.

more to come.

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Re: EOS M thread
 

Alex,

I assume that it will take EF-S lenses. I'd be really surprised if it didn't. I can't test it though. I don't own or have access to any EF-S lenses.

Rob,

Glad to hear that the AF works quickly and accurately. I'll be able to compare it to the 5D2, which has dedicated focus points but isn't known have the fastest AF among DSLRs. Hopefully, the capacitative touchscreen feels good. Touchscreens that respond poorly can be frustrating but I hear that this one is good and that the menus are pretty intuitive.

One feature I really like is that it has a max ISO setting for auto modes. Sometimes I wan't the camera to take care of the exposure (at least for stills), but I don't want it to go crazy with a high ISO.

Re: EOS M thread
 

Jon, I also meant EF lenses. I guess my confusion is that EOS means all the lenses, EF and EFS. I just want to make sure I ordered the correct adapter. I plan on using both EF and EFS lenses in the future with this EOS M camera. Probably the 35mm f/1.4 so I can do very low light interviews for doc work.
Alex

Re: EOS M thread
 

Yes, the adapter works with EF-S lenses. I use the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8.

Also, I use a Z-Finder Pro for video (with the stick-on adapter); and usually the 22mm f/2 M lens, which is a nice combination. I've tried autofocus with 2.0.2 firmware for video, and I would say it is not good enough for that. Autofocus is very good for stills, but still not there for video. I'm hoping the next M will have the new autofocus from the 70D.

The M video quality is pretty good, but not up to the 5DIII. I see some aliasing now and then, similar to the 5DII. But for most work it is very good, and especially as a small B camera.

Re: EOS M thread
 

Of course, it's not a MKiii. That's a full frame sensor. The M is a APS-C. It's a 7D in disguise.

Re: EOS M thread
 

I got the camera today. :)

It's an odd mix of point and shoot and DSLR. The out-of-the-box configuration is very point and shoot. You have do dig around to get it to act manually, but it can be done. One thing you'll want to do is turn off the "Feature Guide", which brings help windows up every time you touch an adjustment.

The autofocus works but is much, much slower than a DSLR. But that's okay. We get a smaller size and a lower price for giving up the mirror. The main thing is that the AF does work and seems to be accurate. In the end, if you get the photo, the audience doesn't care that you waited another second or so before clicking.

To use manual focus with the 22mm lens, you need to set it to manual in the menus, which is easy enough but should be available in the large info screen. Manual focus seems to be fly-by-wire, so it feels lost. The throw is surprisingly long, but I don't know that it has a consistent velocity. With an adapter and normal 35mm lens, it will feel just like any other camera and manual focus lens.

One bummer is that you only get x5 and x10 preview in video mode, but you can't shoot photos in video mode (as far as I know.) I have often used the x10 feature with manual focus to get critical focus on the 5D in dark conditions, rather than hoping that AF will nail the eyes.

AF actually works in video mode, but it's really lazy. You wouldn't want to use AF on a narrative film but it would probably be just fine in a behind-the-scenes or other casual piece. The autofocus might be slow and might even go the wrong way at first, but it eventually delivers a sharp picture.

One advantage with the touchscreen is that you can preview photos by flipping through them and zooming with two fingers. Very nice. And that reveals the beauty of the camera. The photos aren't like a point and shoot at all. Based on the results, the end product is pure DSLR.

Re: EOS M thread
 

Jon, have you tried ML on the M yet?

Alex

Re: EOS M thread
 

Not yet. Tonight we did some greenscreen tests with the 5D2 shooting ML RAW. The results were stunning. :)

Re: EOS M thread
 

i did not know that magic lantern was available for the eos-m.

hopeful/expected benefits?

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Re: EOS M thread
 

Not having applied ML to the EOS-M, I'm not sure exactly which features apply.

Possible benefits include nice exposure tools, superior audio control, audio monitoring (live, visual), and a variety of minor features that could be important for specific applications. RAW capture delivers amazing quality on the 5D, but that camera can use blazing fast CF cards. SD cards aren't quite as fast, so it's hard to say if and when continuous shooting will be available on the EOS-M.

There are downsides. Navigation of menus (on the 5D2) is often clunky and can be inconsistent. Sometimes I want it and sometimes I want to avoid it, so I need enough cards to have some that are clean and some with ML installed. (Now that I have a 128GB super fast KomputerBay CF card, I can keep ML on that and keep my other cards clean.) The main downside is that you need to remove the battery temporarily after each session to ensure that there's no rogue process draining the battery.

Frankly, I don't plan to use ML on the M at this time. When it can do RAW, I'll buy a fast card for that and mount ML for that card only. The M seems to be a real battery hog, probably mostly for powering the LCD display from such a small battery, so I'll avoid any extra drain from ML.

Of course, if there's a killer feature for your application that you can only get with ML, go for it! (Just remember to pull the battery temporarily after each session.)

Re: EOS M thread
 

Jon, did your camera have the new firmware installed? Mine is very quick to AF, but does not match my 5dmkiii, which i would expect.

EOS-M Touch-Screen Focus Pulls
 

Uses the 18-55mm kit lens and new firmware. The focus is fast and accurate, goes where one points and does not bounce or hunt. Dim light at dusk so high ISO; 'standard' picture style.

Re: EOS M thread
 

Yep, new firmware.

I'm not complaining. It works well for what it is. Compared to a P&S, it's good. Compared to an SLR, it's slow. It is as I would expect. (My tests were indoors during the early evening, so the light was moderately low.)

Re: EOS-M Touch-Screen Focus Pulls
 

Looks pretty good to me.

Re: EOS-M Touch-Screen Focus Pulls
 

That really looks good Mark!

I can't get smooth focusing video like that (with 2.0.2 firmware). I have the 22mm kit lens. It tracks but often hunts before locking focus. I wondered if the lens is the difference; I don't have the 18-55mm kit lens, so I tried several other Canon mount lens; with the following results:

EF 17-40mm f/4. This focus tracks very smoothly at 17mm. It is pretty good all the way up to 40mm, a little better than the 22mm kit lens.

EF 24-105mm f/4. Hunts at 24mm before focusing. Tends to lock up to full close focus at 104mm.

Sigma 50mm f/1.4. Hunts badly, and tends to lock up to full close focus.

EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8. Tracks but hunts before locking focus. Has the added problem that focal length changes slightly with focus, so any hunting is exaggerated.

It seems that the lens matters. Don't think I'll buy the 18-55mm kit lens to verify this is the difference with your results, but that could be it.

All these lenses focus okay with the M for still photography, and pretty quickly with 2.0.2.

As an aside, looking again at that EOS 70D video demo - that was shot with a variety of lenses, and each focused very smoothly.