Or another way to look at it is that with the same lens on, to get the same shot size you'll have to move back from say 10 feet when shooting full frame to 30 feet shooting windowed to 1080, again, more DoF.
Steve |
So in other words, you ARE losing your 35mm DoF that a lot of people love and seem to be thinking they'll get from this camera.
Steve |
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I'm assuming the camera is using the entire sensor area and downsizing the image much in the same way that it uses the entire sensor area even when you take a JPEG image at it's smallest size with the camera. Also, again I don't think anyone on earth is thinking this $2700 DSLR camera is going to kill or even be equal to a F900 or Varicam! |
"I don't think anyone on earth is thinking this $2700 DSLR camera is going to kill or even be equal to a F900 or Varicam" - why not, spec's as good plus you get 35mm DoF apparently, and much cheaper.
If it's reading the whole sensor area then down-scaling surely this has implications for the compression scheme, as it'll be working with vast amounts of data? This is why the RED can do 120 fps in windowed mode and only 30 in 4k mode, 'cos it's about the same amount of data (120 x 2000 x 1000 vs 30 x 4000 x 2000 roughly?) Steve |
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Besides, I think the Red already killed them. As for scaling down. Digital SLR cameras have been doing it just fine for.... well, ever. They have menu settings to change the size of the photos taken from RAW to large, medium or small JPG. They can even take a RAW + a medium or small JPG. So it shouldn't be an issue. I admit though, I don't know all the technicalities behind it. The exiting moment will come when Canon throws the stuff in the 5D Mark II into a proper video camera body with proper video camera controls. NAB maybe... hopefully! |
I believe that the 5D is ganging neighboring pixels together with simple addition. That keeps the full frame, and reduces the data to the processor/compressor. Unfortunately, it introduces aliasing artifacts. If you downscale to 720p or below, that will help deal with the aliasing to some degree.
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I haven't yet heard of anyone shooting with a B4 mount on the their RED, but there are certainly many projects currently being shot on the 2/3" systems that would require the flexibility and speed of a 2/3" zoom lens--even a Super16 lens on the RED in windowed mode would not have the same range. For feature and narrative style shooting, I would probably want to go with a RED over the other two formats at this point, although I'd want to make sure we had two bodies to insure against issues on set (which, frankly, there are still quite a few being reported with the RED, from overheating to mystery crashes). Bottom line is that when time=money, the camera gear has to be as bulletproof as possible and also have the appropropriate form factor/ergonomics etc. to get the job done efficiently. |
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I'm a full time producer using both Canon and JVC HD and both Letus and P&S adapters. I've seen the output of the 5DII in a pre-production model as have thousands of other photographers, and film makers and videographers and every one else who's seen the straight footage from Reverie (that I've heard from) was blown away by the quality and, in fact, several HD shooters compared it directly to top HD output. You're really making a lot of noise with no visual reason to do so - just supposition. There's very good reason to expect that the 5DII output could exceed HDV output. THe DOF and FOV make it superior as a film making tool to any current HD/adapter system. I think we understand that you doubt it - that really doesn't mean anything to people who've already seen it's early quality. So what's your point? |
I'm not making a lot of noise, just a little bit - putting forward my thoughts and opinions, kind of the point of a forum, no?
I've no axe to grind, it's not a camera that I'd ever buy, nor is shallow DoF, drama work etc., what I do, I'm just surprised at how much interest this seems to be generating, and really would be shocked to find out that it rivals even Z1, XL-H1 etc., let alone top-level cameras. Steve |
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If you are referring to ergonomics and standard features on pro video cameras then it's a different story - the 5D doesn't really rival the cameras you mentioned as it's lacking several important features. The question is really whether the gains in image quality are sufficient to outweigh the inconvenience of missing pro features, and that depends a lot on the type of video you shoot. I think the biggest market will be those who are currently using 35mm lens adapters on various cameras. For those using them on things like the HV20 it's a no-brainer, as you're already working under the same limitations as the 5D in terms of controls... if you're using an adapter on something else (HVX200, EX1, etc) losing some of those controls may be worth the tradeoff to eliminate the cumbersome adapter and gain significant low-light sensitivity. |
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Those aren't cheap. The difference in a 50mm L and regular 50mm is $1,200.00 Can anyone confirm whether you need that level of quality in glass. |
L Series glass is amazingly nice, but in no way necessary to achieve great photos. The L Series is about more than just higher quality glass. They have better insides, better focusing, tougher build, ect. However, Canon makes great mid range glass that looks really nice.
I've read in more than a couple reviews that people have mentioned that Canon's 50mm f/1.8 lens that costs $79.95 tested as taking more detailed photographs than their 24-70mm f/2.8 L series lens set at 50mm. Granted it's a plastic lens and doesn't focus as fast. Reading that made me go out and get one. Here's a photo from a shoot I just did a couple weeks ago with it. http://www.sybilludingtonmovie.com/i...ast/micah1.jpg My point is, no, you in no way need to spend $20,000 on L glass to make great pictures. However, the nice thing to know is that when you do drop a couple grand on a lens, it's for life as you'll use it for years and years. |
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tom. |
That's the answer I has hoping for.
Thanks |
And you definitely don't need L-Series glass for video. 1080p is roughly 2MP.
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