Capturing w/Intensity, no more problems? at DVinfo.net

Mike Calla · December 27th, 2008, 07:00 AM

I was doing some research yesterday (which really means surfing the net: doesn’t it?:) for solutions to some common problems encountered when using the 5DMkii’s files in post, such as:
1. colour levels when using the QT codec
2. frame rate issues. ie 30p to 29.97 conversion

I came across a post on some other forum where one individual was viewing his 5D footage on a TV using the HDMI output remarking about how beautiful it was blah blah blah... but today, it got me thinking about this post:
New workaround for the quicktime h264 problem?
New workaround for the quicktime h264 problem? - The Digital Video Information Network
Which mentions the codecs colour issues...

If we can output from HDMI to 29.97 or 50 and record to an Intensity card, can we alleviate BOTH of the above mentioned problems?

The 5D has auto switching resolutions and frame rates depending on what the TV input can accept. If you hook up to an intensity card and specify an input frame rate of 27.97p/i or 50p/i on the card won’t the 5D output accordingly? And in doing so negate any problems we have when importing directly in the our NLE?

Anybody want to try this with their Intensity?

Jay Bloomfield · December 27th, 2008, 09:02 PM

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from trying this, but I thought that the 5D MKII HDMI output is only NTSC 1080i60 (not even 1080p30). It's the HDTV that does the "adjusting" to the input signal, not the other way around. I could be wrong, as the Canon documentation is pretty ambiguous. Does the HDMI output really work with PAL HDTVs that are 1080i50? That's pretty cool, if it does.

Matthew Roddy · December 27th, 2008, 11:40 PM

Doesn't the HDMI simultaneously export the Overlay data? I hear that can't be turned off...

Mike Calla · December 28th, 2008, 12:54 AM

Sorry my wording in the original post was a little ambiguous - I should have said this HDMI output technique is only for prerecorded material.

Matthew:
While the 5D is recording, the HDMI defaults to 480p, and when paused, yes, it shows the overlay in 1080p.

Jay:
The HDMI output as stated in the 5D manual is “auto-switching”… but I’m not entirely sure what that means?? Is that switching of resolution and/or frame rates? Do all/some/none of the flat panels in PAL land have ATSC capabilities? The other thread I mentioned previously was discussing colour issues – so I didn’t want to hijack it with frame rates, but that poster IS in PAL land – Germany!!

If: If you were to set your Intensity to capture 1080i (it can’t do “p”) 29.97-drop frame, or 50i then maybe, hopefully, with any luck… the 5D would switch outputs accordingly and we can go back to our art instead of trying to be IT-slash-video technicians! I love computers and all but this is starting to get ridiculous!

Anmol Mishra · December 28th, 2008, 07:13 PM

That is indeed interesting. I have a little mini-ITX box w/ battery that I use as a portable Intensity recorder.
I dont have the 5D Mk II though..
Would really appreciate if someone could test this PAL/NTSC auto switching..
PAL would be 25P then, close enough to our 24P look.

Mike Calla · December 28th, 2008, 07:52 PM

Should have done this sooner - went to BMD Intensity's Tech Specs page:
Blackmagic Design: Intensity Tech Specs

"HD Format Support 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p50 and 720p59.94."

I've always know that Intensity does not do 1080p, only 1080i, but until i was never worried about frame rates. It was either 29.97 or 50!

Seems that if you can capture through HDMI then hopefully there should be no more frame rate issues!

Anmol Mishra · December 29th, 2008, 06:06 PM

Hi Mike. 1080p/24p and 1080p/30p can be recorded as 1080i/60i under Intensity. The proper pulldown can be applied later to extract the 1080p stream.
So Intensity will still record PAL. Just want to see if the Mk II actually does some switching.
However, it is more likely that the TV it was viewed on, was dual NTSC/PAL as all HDTV's support both..
So the signal was still NTSC.
However, this is still conjecture, and I hope someone can try this out.

Mike Calla · December 31st, 2008, 11:20 AM

Hi Anmol,

I know the Intensity can record those frame rates, just wondering about the end result - jitter, ghosting, etc?

I contacted the original poster via email but haven't heard back yet.

Once again if anyone has a 5D and an Intensity - how are the frame rates handled?
I really would like to see some solid experiments though!

December 27th, 2008, 07:00 AM	#1
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Capturing w/Intensity, no more problems? I was doing some research yesterday (which really means surfing the net: doesn’t it?:) for solutions to some common problems encountered when using the 5DMkii’s files in post, such as: 1. colour levels when using the QT codec 2. frame rate issues. ie 30p to 29.97 conversion I came across a post on some other forum where one individual was viewing his 5D footage on a TV using the HDMI output remarking about how beautiful it was blah blah blah... but today, it got me thinking about this post: New workaround for the quicktime h264 problem? New workaround for the quicktime h264 problem? - The Digital Video Information Network Which mentions the codecs colour issues... If we can output from HDMI to 29.97 or 50 and record to an Intensity card, can we alleviate BOTH of the above mentioned problems? The 5D has auto switching resolutions and frame rates depending on what the TV input can accept. If you hook up to an intensity card and specify an input frame rate of 27.97p/i or 50p/i on the card won’t the 5D output accordingly? And in doing so negate any problems we have when importing directly in the our NLE? Anybody want to try this with their Intensity? __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

December 28th, 2008, 12:54 AM	#4
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Sorry my wording in the original post was a little ambiguous - I should have said this HDMI output technique is only for prerecorded material. Matthew: While the 5D is recording, the HDMI defaults to 480p, and when paused, yes, it shows the overlay in 1080p. Jay: The HDMI output as stated in the 5D manual is “auto-switching”… but I’m not entirely sure what that means?? Is that switching of resolution and/or frame rates? Do all/some/none of the flat panels in PAL land have ATSC capabilities? The other thread I mentioned previously was discussing colour issues – so I didn’t want to hijack it with frame rates, but that poster IS in PAL land – Germany!! If: If you were to set your Intensity to capture 1080i (it can’t do “p”) 29.97-drop frame, or 50i then maybe, hopefully, with any luck… the 5D would switch outputs accordingly and we can go back to our art instead of trying to be IT-slash-video technicians! I love computers and all but this is starting to get ridiculous! __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

December 28th, 2008, 07:13 PM	#5
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Interesting That is indeed interesting. I have a little mini-ITX box w/ battery that I use as a portable Intensity recorder. I dont have the 5D Mk II though.. Would really appreciate if someone could test this PAL/NTSC auto switching.. PAL would be 25P then, close enough to our 24P look.

December 28th, 2008, 07:52 PM	#6
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Should have done this sooner - went to BMD Intensity's Tech Specs page: Blackmagic Design: Intensity Tech Specs "HD Format Support 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p50 and 720p59.94." I've always know that Intensity does not do 1080p, only 1080i, but until i was never worried about frame rates. It was either 29.97 or 50! Seems that if you can capture through HDMI then hopefully there should be no more frame rate issues! __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

December 29th, 2008, 06:06 PM	#7
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	1080p and Intensity Hi Mike. 1080p/24p and 1080p/30p can be recorded as 1080i/60i under Intensity. The proper pulldown can be applied later to extract the 1080p stream. So Intensity will still record PAL. Just want to see if the Mk II actually does some switching. However, it is more likely that the TV it was viewed on, was dual NTSC/PAL as all HDTV's support both.. So the signal was still NTSC. However, this is still conjecture, and I hope someone can try this out.

December 27th, 2008, 09:02 PM	#2
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	I'm not trying to discourage anyone from trying this, but I thought that the 5D MKII HDMI output is only NTSC 1080i60 (not even 1080p30). It's the HDTV that does the "adjusting" to the input signal, not the other way around. I could be wrong, as the Canon documentation is pretty ambiguous. Does the HDMI output really work with PAL HDTVs that are 1080i50? That's pretty cool, if it does.

December 27th, 2008, 11:40 PM	#3
Matthew Roddy Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Riverside, Ca Posts: 307	Doesn't the HDMI simultaneously export the Overlay data? I hear that can't be turned off...

December 31st, 2008, 11:20 AM	#8
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Hi Anmol, I know the Intensity can record those frame rates, just wondering about the end result - jitter, ghosting, etc? I contacted the original poster via email but haven't heard back yet. Once again if anyone has a 5D and an Intensity - how are the frame rates handled? I really would like to see some solid experiments though! __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

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