Should I take the plunge? at DVinfo.net

Ryan Mueller · April 19th, 2009, 03:00 PM

So I have been doing a ton of reading lately on the 5D-MKII and I have come to the conclusion that it is a prime candidate as a video workhorse. I am thinking about upgrading to HD from my XL2s and am seriously interested in the MKII.

I shoot mostly documentary style footage and tons of interviews. I am also currently producing a cooking show. Whatever cameras I decide on will need to be able to take care of everything for me. I am thinking about purchasing 2 of the MKIIs and my question to you guys that own them is will this cam be feasible for my needs?

I am traveling a ton lately doing some corporate video work as well and need something that is extremely portable and shoots amazing HD footage. The footage from this camera is some of the best I've seen!

I love the feel of SLRs but am extremely skeptical about selling off the XL2s and purchasing DSLRs for my primary video needs. Previously I was looking into the XL-H1As, but the footage shot with the MKII actually looks so much cleaner IMO.

Any informative insight is welcomed and appreciated!

Marcus Marchesseault · April 19th, 2009, 05:40 PM

I had to use a Sony Z1 at work the other day and did not like going back. OTOH, interviews that must be interrupted every 12 minutes to start another file might be annoying. Personally, I would prefer to change the types of work that I do so I can get the results I demand than to use a lesser camera that fits how I used to shoot. I think I just won't be doing any long-form work with people droning on and on to a bored audience anymore. Soon, CF cards will also be cheap enough to just hand them to the customer at the end of the day if I am not doing the editing.

Ryan Mueller · April 19th, 2009, 07:15 PM

Thanks Marcus! With respect to only being able to record max 12 min. at a time, how soon can you start recording again after stopping recording? Is it immediate?

Also, I have noticed that some of the footage that I have seen from the cam makes it look like pans have a tendency to be choppy. Is this an issue that anybody has noticed?

Is the 24-105mm lens that comes with the kit a decent lens. It is not even close to high speed at f4. Is there a good all around zoom lens that is a little faster that anyone would suggest that may yield better results than the stock lens? I do plan on buying a good set of primes eventually, but would like to start out with a good zoom lens.

Wacharapong Chiowanich · April 19th, 2009, 09:00 PM

Unless your shooting normally relies on supports such as tripods, dollies, cranes or steadycams etc. I suggest you stick to your XL2s. There's no doubt the 5D Mk2 shoots better looking footage than other HD video cameras do at close to its price but the handling is very frustratingly poor to any level of videographers, professional or amateurs alike. Manual controls are next to nonexistent unless you are willing to go to great lengths to fiddle around with all kinds of third-party add-ons like manual aperture lenses, appropriate lens adapters, some kinds of focusing aids or supports, and last but not least, a mic preamps that's designed specifically to neutralize the auto audio gain circuit of the camera. This is not only to improve your audio recording but just to hear what you are recording! as there's no on board headphone jack. Many people just ignore this and simply use a separate audio recording system.

If you really want to have the camera for any reason I suggest you wait until a new firmware comes out to "de-cripple" the camera's crippled manual controls. Or you can try shooting with the camera at your dealer and assess if all these downsides are worth the image quality that is superior to that from real video cameras at similar costs.

Wacharapong

Nigel Barker · April 20th, 2009, 12:18 AM

The 24-105 F4L IS USM lens is very good. The low light capabilities of the 5DII mean that even F4 can be very useful. The stabiliser is very effective with hand held video shooting.

I see juddering on faster pans. I have just learned to pan more slowly. I was surprised as I thought that the 30fps shutter speed would avoid this problem.

It's not a video camera though. It's a stills camera with an outstanding HD video recording facility plus the benefit of being able to use a variety of exceptionally high quality lenses. Only you can decide whether you can put up with the limitations of the 5DII in order to produce the stunning HD video it is capable of. We have switched from using Canon XH-A1s to 5DIIs for our subject matter which is basically architecture & real estate as we can live with the limitations e.g. we dub on our own audio track afterwards & don't need to record takes of more than a minute or two. I prefer using the XH-A1 as it is designed for the purpose but put up with the awkwardness of the 5DII. The benefits of low light performance & interchangeable lenses are big bonuses but overwhelmingly it was the quality of the video that is the clincher.

Cheers

Nigel

Toenis Liivamaegi · April 20th, 2009, 03:12 AM

If you are used to video camera's zoom capabilities and are willing to use a tripod Canon XHA1 is the best for the money - as you simply can not have lenses with 20x zoom and f2.8 for DSLR and any f5.6 lens will eat so much light that it is as good as A1 when it comes to light sensitivity.
I have both 5D MKII and A1 and sure I rarely use A1 because it is lousy looking after using 5D with even $60 f1.4 50mm lens but no matter how good the image quality if you simply can not take a shot because you don't have the lens that you might be accustomed to when shooting with normal video cam. Also the aliasing and jello of the 5D makes it less than ideal in some situations.
In the other hand A1 is an old cam and in a year the market will be changed again so buying it wouldn't be a good idea. So stick to what you know and trust for a month and see what comes out or what NAB brings.

Cheers,
T

Nigel Barker · April 20th, 2009, 04:38 AM

The Canon XH-A1 has to have a wide zoom range as you cannot change lenses. It's rare that you need to zoom the full 20x range although it can be a nice effect when used occasionally.

Tom Roper · April 21st, 2009, 10:01 AM

Having owned the XH-A1, and still owning the 5DMkII and EX1, my judgment is that while the 5dMkII is especially impressive with a fast prime in low light, the overall video experience lags pretty far behind. For sure the image is highly detailed, but so are the others. The advantages of low light and shallow depth of field are specific. Comparing the video side by side with stock footage I shot with the XH-A1 and EX1, it's evident the video camera footage is a better overall result due to fast handling, stabilization, built in neutral density and ease of making the shot. The 5DMkII can be made to recreate and improve upon a specific set of conditions if you accept 30p, are static from a tripod, have ND filters, the time and a willingness to set it all up and the target of opportunity hasn't moved on.

It's a useful perhaps indispensable video accessory for the indie maker or the studio, a worthy alternative to Letus/Brevis, heck maybe even Red. But I can't fathom it being the videographer's only tool in the bag. The EX1 is also impressive shooting stills.

Ryan Mueller · April 21st, 2009, 02:33 PM

Thank you everyone for your input! I have made up my mind and am going to purchase one today. I am going to test drive the machine thoroughly and probably pick up an EX3 or an XL-H1 as a primary shooting cam in the near future.

I still just can't get over the look of the video footage and have decided that it will be worth all of the workarounds. If I decided to try to get that kind of DOF from any other camera it would cost me in upwords of 10,000 after the adapter and lenses. Here I am looking at maybe 5,000.

Another determining factor is the portability. Most of my shots are done from a tripod being that they are primarily interviews. I have already looked into field recorders for sound and found one that I fancy. If I do have to shoot handheld, I am going to shoot from my glidecam. Sure focus may be an issue, but I am up for the challenge.

If anyone is interested in a Canon XL2 in mint condition, check the FS forum soon.

Thanks again!

Eric Emerick · April 21st, 2009, 03:13 PM

Has anyone else noticed that sensor dust looks much worse when shooting video than stills? A couple of spots in a still shot (which I consider normal) are easy to manage, but 5 or 6 spots in a video isn't. It's almost a deal breaker for me as far doing anything for public consumption. No need to recommend any cleaning products, I've tried 'em all.

Brian Boyko · April 21st, 2009, 04:22 PM

I'm just going to wait till they get these bugs ironed out in the MkIII, I think.

Peer Landa · April 21st, 2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Mueller

I am thinking about upgrading to HD from my XL2s and am seriously interested in the MKII.

Hi Ryan -- it's nice to see you here on the 5D forum from all the help I previously got from you at the XL2 forum. You and I are in pretty much the same situation -- migrating from the XL2 to MKII (only that I do most everything backwards; first selling my XL2 and then start buying lenses and fancy microphones for the MKII... BEFORE I've even gotten the MKII itself ;^)

Quote:

I love the feel of SLRs but am extremely skeptical about selling off the XL2s and purchasing DSLRs for my primary video needs.

Yep, I had pretty much the same feeling when I shipped off my XL2, although my concerns were/are mostly audio related -- compared to to the XL2, the MKII is really a dud when it comes to audio, (lacking 4-channels, timecode, XLRs, fully manual, padding & filter options, etc). But of course, at once I saw that DOF footage in the "Reverie" video, I was sold: Reverie on Vimeo

-- peer

Nigel Barker · April 22nd, 2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Emerick

Has anyone else noticed that sensor dust looks much worse when shooting video than stills? A couple of spots in a still shot (which I consider normal) are easy to manage, but 5 or 6 spots in a video isn't. It's almost a deal breaker for me as far doing anything for public consumption. No need to recommend any cleaning products, I've tried 'em all.

It's price we pay for interchangeable lenses but should be manageable. It is easier to Photoshop out the dust spots on a still or batch process using a dust spot reference frame. Spots are more noticeable when the lens is stopped down so the workarounds we use to force wide apertures & thus shallow DOF will help.

Nigel Barker · April 22nd, 2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peer Landa

But of course, at once I saw that DOF footage in the "Reverie" video, I was sold: Reverie on Vimeo

It was these two clips that were the very first 5DII video we saw that convinced my wife & I. The clarity & low light capability are simply extraordinary. Chris MacAskill : photos : Paris and San Franciso videos by night- powered by SmugMug

Ryan Mueller · April 22nd, 2009, 07:46 AM

Peer, glad to see you in here as well! I'm sure that we will be able to help each other out a tremendously as we learn and grow with our new camera decision. What lenses did you decide to go with for the MKII?

I've watched Reverie many times. It is an incredible display of what the camera is capable of! Nigel, I hadn't seen that footage yet. All I can say is WOW! Truly amazing. Any idea what lens he had parked on the front of the cam?

So I played with my new MKII all night last night and am as completely happy as I thought I'd be. I am having a hard time getting decent shots with the 24-105 though. Anyone else experience this? I also bought a 50mm 1.4 and am thoroughly happy with what I am able to get with that lens.

April 19th, 2009, 03:00 PM	#1
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Should I take the plunge? So I have been doing a ton of reading lately on the 5D-MKII and I have come to the conclusion that it is a prime candidate as a video workhorse. I am thinking about upgrading to HD from my XL2s and am seriously interested in the MKII. I shoot mostly documentary style footage and tons of interviews. I am also currently producing a cooking show. Whatever cameras I decide on will need to be able to take care of everything for me. I am thinking about purchasing 2 of the MKIIs and my question to you guys that own them is will this cam be feasible for my needs? I am traveling a ton lately doing some corporate video work as well and need something that is extremely portable and shoots amazing HD footage. The footage from this camera is some of the best I've seen! I love the feel of SLRs but am extremely skeptical about selling off the XL2s and purchasing DSLRs for my primary video needs. Previously I was looking into the XL-H1As, but the footage shot with the MKII actually looks so much cleaner IMO. Any informative insight is welcomed and appreciated!

April 21st, 2009, 03:13 PM	#10
Eric Emerick Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 171	sensor dust Has anyone else noticed that sensor dust looks much worse when shooting video than stills? A couple of spots in a still shot (which I consider normal) are easy to manage, but 5 or 6 spots in a video isn't. It's almost a deal breaker for me as far doing anything for public consumption. No need to recommend any cleaning products, I've tried 'em all. __________________ esquared

April 21st, 2009, 04:22 PM	#11
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	I'm just going to wait till they get these bugs ironed out in the MkIII, I think. __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

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April 19th, 2009, 05:40 PM	#2
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I had to use a Sony Z1 at work the other day and did not like going back. OTOH, interviews that must be interrupted every 12 minutes to start another file might be annoying. Personally, I would prefer to change the types of work that I do so I can get the results I demand than to use a lesser camera that fits how I used to shoot. I think I just won't be doing any long-form work with people droning on and on to a bored audience anymore. Soon, CF cards will also be cheap enough to just hand them to the customer at the end of the day if I am not doing the editing.

April 19th, 2009, 07:15 PM	#3
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Thanks Marcus! With respect to only being able to record max 12 min. at a time, how soon can you start recording again after stopping recording? Is it immediate? Also, I have noticed that some of the footage that I have seen from the cam makes it look like pans have a tendency to be choppy. Is this an issue that anybody has noticed? Is the 24-105mm lens that comes with the kit a decent lens. It is not even close to high speed at f4. Is there a good all around zoom lens that is a little faster that anyone would suggest that may yield better results than the stock lens? I do plan on buying a good set of primes eventually, but would like to start out with a good zoom lens.

April 19th, 2009, 09:00 PM	#4
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	Unless your shooting normally relies on supports such as tripods, dollies, cranes or steadycams etc. I suggest you stick to your XL2s. There's no doubt the 5D Mk2 shoots better looking footage than other HD video cameras do at close to its price but the handling is very frustratingly poor to any level of videographers, professional or amateurs alike. Manual controls are next to nonexistent unless you are willing to go to great lengths to fiddle around with all kinds of third-party add-ons like manual aperture lenses, appropriate lens adapters, some kinds of focusing aids or supports, and last but not least, a mic preamps that's designed specifically to neutralize the auto audio gain circuit of the camera. This is not only to improve your audio recording but just to hear what you are recording! as there's no on board headphone jack. Many people just ignore this and simply use a separate audio recording system. If you really want to have the camera for any reason I suggest you wait until a new firmware comes out to "de-cripple" the camera's crippled manual controls. Or you can try shooting with the camera at your dealer and assess if all these downsides are worth the image quality that is superior to that from real video cameras at similar costs. Wacharapong

April 20th, 2009, 12:18 AM	#5
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	The 24-105 F4L IS USM lens is very good. The low light capabilities of the 5DII mean that even F4 can be very useful. The stabiliser is very effective with hand held video shooting. I see juddering on faster pans. I have just learned to pan more slowly. I was surprised as I thought that the 30fps shutter speed would avoid this problem. It's not a video camera though. It's a stills camera with an outstanding HD video recording facility plus the benefit of being able to use a variety of exceptionally high quality lenses. Only you can decide whether you can put up with the limitations of the 5DII in order to produce the stunning HD video it is capable of. We have switched from using Canon XH-A1s to 5DIIs for our subject matter which is basically architecture & real estate as we can live with the limitations e.g. we dub on our own audio track afterwards & don't need to record takes of more than a minute or two. I prefer using the XH-A1 as it is designed for the purpose but put up with the awkwardness of the 5DII. The benefits of low light performance & interchangeable lenses are big bonuses but overwhelmingly it was the quality of the video that is the clincher. Cheers Nigel

April 20th, 2009, 03:12 AM	#6
Toenis Liivamaegi Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 579	If you are used to video camera's zoom capabilities and are willing to use a tripod Canon XHA1 is the best for the money - as you simply can not have lenses with 20x zoom and f2.8 for DSLR and any f5.6 lens will eat so much light that it is as good as A1 when it comes to light sensitivity. I have both 5D MKII and A1 and sure I rarely use A1 because it is lousy looking after using 5D with even $60 f1.4 50mm lens but no matter how good the image quality if you simply can not take a shot because you don't have the lens that you might be accustomed to when shooting with normal video cam. Also the aliasing and jello of the 5D makes it less than ideal in some situations. In the other hand A1 is an old cam and in a year the market will be changed again so buying it wouldn't be a good idea. So stick to what you know and trust for a month and see what comes out or what NAB brings. Cheers, T

April 20th, 2009, 04:38 AM	#7
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	The Canon XH-A1 has to have a wide zoom range as you cannot change lenses. It's rare that you need to zoom the full 20x range although it can be a nice effect when used occasionally.

April 21st, 2009, 10:01 AM	#8
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Having owned the XH-A1, and still owning the 5DMkII and EX1, my judgment is that while the 5dMkII is especially impressive with a fast prime in low light, the overall video experience lags pretty far behind. For sure the image is highly detailed, but so are the others. The advantages of low light and shallow depth of field are specific. Comparing the video side by side with stock footage I shot with the XH-A1 and EX1, it's evident the video camera footage is a better overall result due to fast handling, stabilization, built in neutral density and ease of making the shot. The 5DMkII can be made to recreate and improve upon a specific set of conditions if you accept 30p, are static from a tripod, have ND filters, the time and a willingness to set it all up and the target of opportunity hasn't moved on. It's a useful perhaps indispensable video accessory for the indie maker or the studio, a worthy alternative to Letus/Brevis, heck maybe even Red. But I can't fathom it being the videographer's only tool in the bag. The EX1 is also impressive shooting stills.

April 21st, 2009, 02:33 PM	#9
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Thank you everyone for your input! I have made up my mind and am going to purchase one today. I am going to test drive the machine thoroughly and probably pick up an EX3 or an XL-H1 as a primary shooting cam in the near future. I still just can't get over the look of the video footage and have decided that it will be worth all of the workarounds. If I decided to try to get that kind of DOF from any other camera it would cost me in upwords of 10,000 after the adapter and lenses. Here I am looking at maybe 5,000. Another determining factor is the portability. Most of my shots are done from a tripod being that they are primarily interviews. I have already looked into field recorders for sound and found one that I fancy. If I do have to shoot handheld, I am going to shoot from my glidecam. Sure focus may be an issue, but I am up for the challenge. If anyone is interested in a Canon XL2 in mint condition, check the FS forum soon. Thanks again!

April 22nd, 2009, 07:46 AM	#15
Ryan Mueller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Posts: 336	Peer, glad to see you in here as well! I'm sure that we will be able to help each other out a tremendously as we learn and grow with our new camera decision. What lenses did you decide to go with for the MKII? I've watched Reverie many times. It is an incredible display of what the camera is capable of! Nigel, I hadn't seen that footage yet. All I can say is WOW! Truly amazing. Any idea what lens he had parked on the front of the cam? So I played with my new MKII all night last night and am as completely happy as I thought I'd be. I am having a hard time getting decent shots with the 24-105 though. Anyone else experience this? I also bought a 50mm 1.4 and am thoroughly happy with what I am able to get with that lens.