Newbie: Hardware & software - Advice

[Marcus Marchesseault]

I'm not necessarily advocating building your own systems but I'll give some reasons in case they are helpful to people in this situation. I build my own system for the obvious reason that it saves money on components but that reason seems completely irrelevant when factoring in my time. There is one really good reason I go down this path and one unfortunate reality that this makes sense. The negative factor why building my own system makes sense is that I sometimes have too much free time. I would prefer to have more consistent work, but the reality is that I have downtime that I can use to build a computer. The positive reason for putting in all this time is that I know the system inside and out and can get my machine up and running very quickly and cheaply. The time I put in building when I have free time is saved during important times when the inevitable problems occur. Most of the time, I get through technology issues with little more than a hiccup in my work flow while other people can be out for days with something simple. I can reload my OS and software from a ghost image in minutes or replace a hard drive in a couple of hours including the trip to the store. Having such intimate knowledge with the machine I rely upon keeps it reliable.

That said, buy the mac unless you want to go through a huge learning curve with your computer build. It is probably easier to just focus on earning money so you can do like other people and simply buy a new machine when you have problems.

[Peter Chang]

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

How much time did you spend researching & putting that together? I know it's certainly possible to put together very cheap systems, but I've never been able to come up with a combo with comparable or better performance than an apple system where the price was cheap enough to be a bargain once I factored my own time into the equation.

5 days (3 days research, 2-day build). Once you get it down, it's easy as pie. The OSX86 guys have really made it easy. I have since built 2 identical machines for friends and each build only took 4 hours.

Learn how to fish and you can fish the rest of your life. As Marcus pointed out, knowing your system inside out has its advantages. It will save you time and money in the long term. Power supply goes out? No problem. Bad memory? Easy fix.

Another big advantage to building your own is component selection and performance. Faster RAM, video cards, overclocking... You're not limited to what Apple dictates.

Back in the day, I had a Quad G5 (the last PowerPC Mac) and I waited months and months for Apple to release the promised aftermarket 7800GT, until I finally gave up and sold the machine. Not to mention the incompetence at AppleCare (they didn't realize there was a bad stick of memory initially which was causing constant kernel panics).

I prefer to take matters into my own hands.

In the end, it's up to the individual.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Peter Chang

5 days (3 days research, 2-day build)..
I prefer to take matters into my own hands.

In the end, it's up to the individual.

Peter, are you saying that you can't run FCP on your Hackintosh ? That would be my main reason to try to fire up one of these mod machines.

[Peter Chang]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Peter, are you saying that you can't run FCP on your Hackintosh ? That would be my main reason to try to fire up one of these mod machines.

It runs FCP beautifully, that was my whole reason for building one! In fact, it runs faster than it does on my friend's tricked out 2009 8-core Mac Pro and cost 1/5.

[Evan Donn]

Originally Posted by Peter Chang

5 days (3 days research, 2-day build). Once you get it down, it's easy as pie. The OSX86 guys have really made it easy. I have since built 2 identical machines for friends and each build only took 4 hours.

Thanks, good to know. I'm due for a new desktop and have considered building something but not really interested in a time-sink project of uncertain outcome... a few days isn't bad though, although that potentially puts the total cost into the range of a couple mac pros. It seems like the real savings come from building multiple systems and there's certainly some appeal there for network rendering, etc. I'll definitely look into the OSX86 stuff.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Peter Chang

It runs FCP beautifully, that was my whole reason for building one! In fact, it runs faster than it does on my friend's tricked out 2009 8-core Mac Pro and cost 1/5.

Okay, I must have misunderstood your last post. See Peter, I have built maybe 10 PC over the years. In fact, the Dell I just bought last year (quad core) was really first on I have bought off shelf in about 15 years, so I know the build it yourself game pretty well. I hadn't kept up with technology improvements since I put together a dual core AMD rig about 4.5 years ago, so I bought the Dell knowing I would use NeoScene as an intermediate.

But you have given me the bug now, bt I still have the feeling I am not going to get anymore out of FCP than what I am doing with Vegas. I've always felt that with the origins of Final Cut and Premiere being the same, and with GUI very similar, that my experience with Premeire up to Pro 2, and comparing with Vegas, I felt I am okay with Vegas.

I have been involved in four 48 hour competitions now, and the Vegas edited projects (3) went smoother and quicker than the one Final Cut project I participated in. Perhaps it was editor problems, but I always felt that FC just was overloaded with overhead and ritual processes that slowed it up.

[Andrew Clark]

Peter - Thanks much for that info. / links; didn't even know that existed!! It looks like a very cool feature to have for a WIN only machine. Hope it is stable though; would hate for it to lock up / crash on a project one has going while running FCP!!

Chris - That is so true regarding...the Cineform stuff (w/Vegas or Premiere) in that it does not require a huge amount of horsepower to run smoothly. I've seen Prospect w/Premiere when they first came out with it...and it ran great on an older dual core machine!! Are you using Vegas 9?

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Andrew Clark

Chris - That is so true regarding...the Cineform stuff (w/Vegas or Premiere) in that it does not require a huge amount of horsepower to run smoothly. I've seen Prospect w/Premiere when they first came out with it...and it ran great on an older dual core machine!! Are you using Vegas 9?

I have both 8 and 9 on my system and I have upgraded to 9a. I have been editing everything on 9. I don't see any big difference in the two, but I stay with 9 becasue there are a few new toys on board that I might want to use. I only work in 32 bit, and I am fine with rendering processes, etc. I do note that occasionally when I use the Cineform Codec to render to a 1920 x 1080 output from my Canon 5D material, I get a message that says I am not registered to use the Codec for that level. I then try it again, and it renders. Not sure what that is about.

[Christopher McCord]

I just want to +1 to what Nigel has said about the Mac.
I too am a working IT professional, who works with Windows/Microsoft technology for a living...and while I know good and well a PC can do what the the OP is wanting; cheaper, I am of the opinion the Mac can do it easier, smoother, sexier, and actually (dont laugh) more fun. I guess if you compare Adobe products on PC vs. Mac they all do the same stuff, but software like iMovie and iDVD etc...just make more sense sometimes. Not knocking PC at all, they are great, but for where I'm going with movies and photos, I'm going Mac to do my work.

I just need to decide what I'm going to purchase a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro soon to start my venture into video editing...I just don't know which one yet. I hope to eventually own both, but can only afford to get one to start with...

I'm leaning towards the Mac Pro with a 30" ACD. Then if/when comes a time I need portability, the MBP will be purchased too.

Right now I'm worried because I have an older Dell Precision 650 workstation, with 2GB of RAM and Dual XEON CPUs, not sure I'll be able to do any of my 5DMKII video on it? I haven't tried yet, but I am expecting FAIL.

I have Adobe Master Suite for PC/Mac, so I can try to use it on this PC, but again, I just feel I'm going to have to get the new Mac sooner than later.

[Andrew Clark]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

...I only work in 32 bit, and I am fine with rendering processes, etc.

Wow...that's great to hear. I was viewing some not so good reviews about how doing everything in the 32bit mode was bogging down editing, rendering times. Maybe v.9 along with Cineform helped this?

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

...I do note that occasionally when I use the Cineform Codec to render to a 1920 x 1080 output from my Canon 5D material, I get a message that says I am not registered to use the Codec for that level. I then try it again, and it renders. Not sure what that is about.

Question regarding using your Vegas/Cineform combo; ... I read a few posts ago somewhere either on this forum or one of the others, that there was an issue of certain NLE's and/or apps not being able to keep the 0-255 range. Does that even matter for video and is it an issue with your setup? Just curious.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Andrew Clark

Wow...that's great to hear. I was viewing some not so good reviews about how doing everything in the 32bit mode was bogging down editing, rendering times. Maybe v.9 along with Cineform helped this?



Question regarding using your Vegas/Cineform combo; ... I read a few posts ago somewhere either on this forum or one of the others, that there was an issue of certain NLE's and/or apps not being able to keep the 0-255 range. Does that even matter for video and is it an issue with your setup? Just curious.

Actually was an issue, from what I understand of some editors interpreting the Quicktime settings, or something like that. I remember our original files were clipping on the high side, and to dark is shadows. Cineform's NeoScene's conversion corrects that in the rendered file, and since then, there may have been a correction in Quicktime too. I note that I did test a conversion from the camera's file testing Streamclip, and the resulting file appeared to have that issue still as compared to the Cineform file.

[Andrew Clark]

Originally Posted by Christopher McCord

...but software like iMovie and iDVD etc...just make more sense sometimes.

Agreed, yes sometimes...but not always.

Originally Posted by Christopher McCord

I just need to decide what I'm going to purchase a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro soon to start my venture into video editing...I just don't know which one yet. I hope to eventually own both, but can only afford to get one to start with...

Macbook Pro; the good thing about this is portability. Power (CPU and GPU wise) is decent, but the Windows only laptops have Quad-Core capability, a bit faster GPU and better LCD screens (i.e., Sony's top end Vaio screen displays the entire Adobe RGB colorspace as well as Dell's Precision M6400's).

Originally Posted by Christopher McCord

I'm leaning towards the Mac Pro with a 30" ACD. Then if/when comes a time I need portability, the MBP will be purchased too.

Nice, but just FYI, the 30" ACD in not LED backlit. There are other 30" LCD's out there that do have LED backlighting...with the matte screen of course. You may want to check around before plunking down your hard earned cash for one of these. Maybe (2) 24"'s instead?

Originally Posted by Christopher McCord

Right now I'm worried because I have an older Dell Precision 650 workstation, with 2GB of RAM and Dual XEON CPUs, not sure I'll be able to do any of my 5DMKII video on it? I haven't tried yet, but I am expecting FAIL.

Never know until you try!! Happy shopping and research the heck out of everything so you'll feel good when you purchase whatever system you end up with.

[Andrew Clark]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Actually was an issue, from what I understand of some editors interpreting the Quicktime settings, or something like that. I remember our original files were clipping on the high side, and to dark is shadows. Cineform's NeoScene's conversion corrects that in the rendered file, and since then, there may have been a correction in Quicktime too. I note that I did test a conversion from the camera's file testing Streamclip, and the resulting file appeared to have that issue still as compared to the Cineform file.

So NeoScene corrects that issue...very nice to know. I realize you're a Vegas user, but have you any experience or heard that if this is an issue with PP, FCP or iMovie?

[Chris Barcellos]

Andrew

I don't pretend to understand the technical issues, just know they did work to resolve. Here are some posts on it:


http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...d-support.html

This post from David Newman came from that thread.:

Vegas Pro is the one exception as it wasn't having issues before. Vegas uses studio RGB which places black at 16,16,16 not 0,0,0, as a resulting all the YUV 0-255 data is presented in RGB. All other tools use compter graphics RGB (Premiere Pro and Elements, AE, VirtualDub, MediaPlayer etc.) which stretch the 16-235 YUV to 0-255 RGB, lossing highlight and shadow detail for the Canon (now fixed in NeoScene 1.1.2.)

Here are other threads about Cineform and 5D MKII

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...i-editing.html


http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...s-29-97-a.html

[Andrew Clark]

I'm no techy either!!

Thanks for the links Chris; much appreciate it.