Thoughts of selling 5D2 for 7D at DVinfo.net

Dylan Couper · September 6th, 2009, 10:14 AM

I'm torn. As I'm sure are many of you.

After shooting full frame 35mm video, the thought of going back to a 1.6x crop on my EF lenses (yeah even though I used to shoot 1/3" video for years) makes me grumpy.

On the other hand, real 24p from the 7D is mouth watering and as much as I want to believe 30p is the way of the future... it isn't the way of the present. And I know we aren't getting it for the 5D2 from Canon (if there's no 25p love, there ain't gonna be no 24p).

The question for me... Sell the 5D2, take a $500 loss, get the 7D, and spend the extra money on vodka to help me forget I'm not shooting FF anymore?

So anyone else thinking this? Any decisions? And has anyone yet offered Tramm a significant prize for dropping everything else and focusing on cracking the 24p barrier? Obviously a lot of us have a significant investment in staying with the 5D2. :)

Tom Daigon · September 6th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Im not torn. Im not ready to lose the good thing I have with my current lenses. I mostly shoot for TV, DVD or the Web which means my routine for everything I shoot is to
to convert it to Prores and 29.97 then edit in FCP. In my work flow I would gain nothing and lose more than money by buying the 7D, but I realize everybody has their own work flow.
These days money is a big issue for me (reduced hours at work) so I need to be frugal with my investments ;-)

Khoi Pham · September 6th, 2009, 11:16 AM

Why don't you just wait a month or 2, after the 7D start to ship they might have firmware for you 5D2, and wait and see how good 7D is actually is in PQ before you sell your 5D2.

Chris Barcellos · September 6th, 2009, 11:22 AM

Same question here. But I don't think it needs to be a dilemna. What we are really going to have to consider is whether the 7D brings enough to our current system to add it as a second option to what we have already. And the key is how good the image is in 24p, and how well the 60p work for slow motion. I suspect they will both be good, and we will be needing to find a way to bring the 7D into the kit, rather than switch bodies.

Eric Darling · September 6th, 2009, 05:28 PM

You can always call Canon customer service and politely request that they add new frame rates to the 5D Mark II firmware. It's really an easy, quick phone call, and they seem genuinely happy to take our constructive comments as customers. The US number is: 1-800-828-4040. While you're at it, you might want to mention that it's pretty important that they add simultaneous video out while not deactivating the on-camera LCD.

Jon Fairhurst · September 6th, 2009, 07:24 PM

In my experience, the 28 to 85mm range is the most important for human scale video. On a crop frame camera that's 18 to 53mm. Unfortunately, this range isn't very practical with currently available -and affordable - Canon lenses...

Let's start at the long end. The 50/1.4 has barrel distortion, which is really bad in a portrait lens. Okay, we can stick with the 85/1.8, but that's now for one shot closeups. You better have room to back up.

For a normal lens, we've got the 35/2.0 and it's old design and five blade aperture. It's roughly the equivalent in quality to the 50/1.8, but costs over twice as much.

The 28/1.8 works well as your wide normal. This would be a "go to" lens for me.

But what about the 18mm? Canon's 20mm prime is f/2.8 and pretty soft and not as fast as the rest of the collection. There's the 16-35/2.8, but it's pricey. The 17-40 is slower still.

If you want speed, you're looking at the 24/1.4L which is expensive, and not as wide as we would like.

On the 5D2, the 28/1.8, 50/1.4, and 85/1.8 make a sweet, affordable set. And the let you do e-rack focus with Magic Lantern. The 7D doesn't really offer the same counterparts.

I really hope that the 5D gets an upgrade. Having both cameras matched at 24p would be a treat. My 85mm on the 7D would give me a great one-person closeup lens, and my 200 with a doubler would really get as much as 640mm of reach on the 7D.

But for most human-scale filming, I'd still grab the 5D first.

Ray Bell · September 6th, 2009, 08:10 PM

This is my play on the 7D...

I think its pretty obvious that the 7D is presently Canon's test vehicle... Canon has put alot of technology upgrades in this camera.. and then they have the price set to get lots of advanced shooters involved to test out this new technology... if anyone is miffed about
having the 5DmkII and then Canon bringing out the 7D so soon... then wait until you sell
your 5DMKII for the 7D just to find out that Canon will bring out the 3D or whatever they
call it right after the pubic gets done beta testing the new hardware...

it has to happen or the 1D series is doomed... Canon will have something even better than
the 7D sooner than you might think...

The 5DMKII still has the advantage of being a full size sensor DSLR. I'm betting the next
5DMKIV will have the exact same hardware/options as the 7D but again with a full size
sensor....

This is exactly how the original 5D was created from the begining and its going to be how the 5DMKIV is going to come out, just as soon as the new hardware gets tested in the field. Its the Canon way of doing business.

Dan Chung · September 6th, 2009, 08:11 PM

Jon,

My solution for mid priced fast good lenses on a cropped sensor like the 7D would be the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 and the Sigma 30mm f1.4 I'd prefer to use Canon or Nikon glass but these seem to be the best alternatives right now.

If you stick with Canon the 35mm f1.4L us the way to go for 'standard' look on the 7D.

The Olympus 21mm f2 with an adaptor or the Sigma 20mm f1.8 are the only 'fast' alternatives for a wide.

Dan

Ray Bell · September 6th, 2009, 08:39 PM

Dan, There isn't anything wrong with the Canon 10-22 on the 7D either

Dan Chung · September 6th, 2009, 09:42 PM

Ray,

In general the Canon 10-22 is a fine lens, but its not f2.8 and it changes max aperture as you zoom. Also for video it has pretty hard to use manual focus with a thin none too smooth ring , compared to the Tokina's nice broad focus ring. Also the Canon makes it harder to fit a follow focus as most manfacturers gear rings will be hard to fit on that thin ring and not cause excess friction. Also the Tokina lens has hard stops in manual focus.

If you have the Canon already, or want it primarily for stills then I'd be happy enough, but as a new purchase for the 7D for video, I'd probably go with the Tokina.

Dan

Jon Fairhurst · September 6th, 2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Chung

...The Olympus 21mm f2 with an adaptor or the Sigma 20mm f1.8 are the only 'fast' alternatives for a wide.

I've avoided the Sigma 20/1.8 for the 5D because of falloff in the corners. On the 7D falloff won't be so bad, due to the crop format. That would probably be my wide fast lens of choice. The Zuiko looked pretty rare and expensive last time I looked into it.

I'm not sure why Canon and Nikon don't make a "fast" super-wide. That seems like the right solution for photographing cathedral interiors and the like without a tripod or flash. Not to mention that it would be great for shooting video at 1/50 or so...

Dan Chung · September 6th, 2009, 11:01 PM

Jon,

Totally agree on the Sigma, not sure either why Canon and Nikon can't sort out a decent fast ultrawide. The Sigma's do have slightly different colour characteristics too if you looking for a perfect match with other lenses, so a Canon or Nikon would be highly welcomed.

So it looks like the fast wide to standard Prime lenses of choice for a 7D are the 14mm f2.8L II Canon, 20mm f1.8 Sigma, 24mm f1.4L II Canon, 30mm f1.4 Sigma, 35mm f1.4 Canon, 50mm f1.2L or 1.4 Canon, 50mm f1.4 Zeiss. You could throw in the Nikon 50mm f1.2 and 1.4, 28mm f1.4 AF and the 35mm f1.4 MF if you are prepared to use adapters.

For a fast f2.8 wide zoom I think the Tokina is the only option now.

Dan

Jaser Stockert · September 6th, 2009, 11:41 PM

Dan,

for the tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, is the canon or nikon(w/ EOS adaptor) version preferred? i see many recommended nikon compatible lenses over a canon...what's so popular about the nikons over canons? thanks.

Dan Chung · September 7th, 2009, 05:18 AM

Jaser,

There is no advantage I can think of for buying the Tokina in Nikon fit, far simpler just to get the Canon fitting one.

Dan

Don Miller · September 7th, 2009, 02:31 PM

The Nikon 14-24 2.8 G is an incredible lens, and excellent wide open. But $2K plus a $250 adapter. The other higher end choice is the Canon 16-35 2.8. It's not as good, but takes screw on filters.

For top-of-the line fast

Nikon 14-24 2.8
Canon 24L II f 1.4-----alt Canon 24L first edition
Canon 35L 1.4
Sigma 50 1.4-----------alt Canon 50L
Canon 85L II 1.2-------alt Canon 85L first series or Canon 85 1.8
Canon 135L f2

This is the top of the line in terms of IQ/Speed. The Canon 50 1.2 is not as good as the Sigma under f2. The other Sigmas are noticeably inferior to Canon. For a mid fast zoom the Canon 24-70 2.8 is the best available.

September 6th, 2009, 10:14 AM	#1
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Thoughts of selling 5D2 for 7D I'm torn. As I'm sure are many of you. After shooting full frame 35mm video, the thought of going back to a 1.6x crop on my EF lenses (yeah even though I used to shoot 1/3" video for years) makes me grumpy. On the other hand, real 24p from the 7D is mouth watering and as much as I want to believe 30p is the way of the future... it isn't the way of the present. And I know we aren't getting it for the 5D2 from Canon (if there's no 25p love, there ain't gonna be no 24p). The question for me... Sell the 5D2, take a $500 loss, get the 7D, and spend the extra money on vodka to help me forget I'm not shooting FF anymore? So anyone else thinking this? Any decisions? And has anyone yet offered Tramm a significant prize for dropping everything else and focusing on cracking the 24p barrier? Obviously a lot of us have a significant investment in staying with the 5D2. :) __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

September 6th, 2009, 10:31 AM	#2
Tom Daigon Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 170	Im not torn. Im not ready to lose the good thing I have with my current lenses. I mostly shoot for TV, DVD or the Web which means my routine for everything I shoot is to to convert it to Prores and 29.97 then edit in FCP. In my work flow I would gain nothing and lose more than money by buying the 7D, but I realize everybody has their own work flow. These days money is a big issue for me (reduced hours at work) so I need to be frugal with my investments ;-) Last edited by Tom Daigon; September 6th, 2009 at 11:59 AM.

September 6th, 2009, 11:16 AM	#3
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	Why don't you just wait a month or 2, after the 7D start to ship they might have firmware for you 5D2, and wait and see how good 7D is actually is in PQ before you sell your 5D2. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

September 6th, 2009, 11:22 AM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Same question here. But I don't think it needs to be a dilemna. What we are really going to have to consider is whether the 7D brings enough to our current system to add it as a second option to what we have already. And the key is how good the image is in 24p, and how well the 60p work for slow motion. I suspect they will both be good, and we will be needing to find a way to bring the 7D into the kit, rather than switch bodies. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

September 6th, 2009, 07:24 PM	#6
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	In my experience, the 28 to 85mm range is the most important for human scale video. On a crop frame camera that's 18 to 53mm. Unfortunately, this range isn't very practical with currently available -and affordable - Canon lenses... Let's start at the long end. The 50/1.4 has barrel distortion, which is really bad in a portrait lens. Okay, we can stick with the 85/1.8, but that's now for one shot closeups. You better have room to back up. For a normal lens, we've got the 35/2.0 and it's old design and five blade aperture. It's roughly the equivalent in quality to the 50/1.8, but costs over twice as much. The 28/1.8 works well as your wide normal. This would be a "go to" lens for me. But what about the 18mm? Canon's 20mm prime is f/2.8 and pretty soft and not as fast as the rest of the collection. There's the 16-35/2.8, but it's pricey. The 17-40 is slower still. If you want speed, you're looking at the 24/1.4L which is expensive, and not as wide as we would like. On the 5D2, the 28/1.8, 50/1.4, and 85/1.8 make a sweet, affordable set. And the let you do e-rack focus with Magic Lantern. The 7D doesn't really offer the same counterparts. I really hope that the 5D gets an upgrade. Having both cameras matched at 24p would be a treat. My 85mm on the 7D would give me a great one-person closeup lens, and my 200 with a doubler would really get as much as 640mm of reach on the 7D. But for most human-scale filming, I'd still grab the 5D first. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 6th, 2009, 05:28 PM	#5
Eric Darling Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 463	You can always call Canon customer service and politely request that they add new frame rates to the 5D Mark II firmware. It's really an easy, quick phone call, and they seem genuinely happy to take our constructive comments as customers. The US number is: 1-800-828-4040. While you're at it, you might want to mention that it's pretty important that they add simultaneous video out while not deactivating the on-camera LCD.

September 6th, 2009, 08:10 PM	#7
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	This is my play on the 7D... I think its pretty obvious that the 7D is presently Canon's test vehicle... Canon has put alot of technology upgrades in this camera.. and then they have the price set to get lots of advanced shooters involved to test out this new technology... if anyone is miffed about having the 5DmkII and then Canon bringing out the 7D so soon... then wait until you sell your 5DMKII for the 7D just to find out that Canon will bring out the 3D or whatever they call it right after the pubic gets done beta testing the new hardware... it has to happen or the 1D series is doomed... Canon will have something even better than the 7D sooner than you might think... The 5DMKII still has the advantage of being a full size sensor DSLR. I'm betting the next 5DMKIV will have the exact same hardware/options as the 7D but again with a full size sensor.... This is exactly how the original 5D was created from the begining and its going to be how the 5DMKIV is going to come out, just as soon as the new hardware gets tested in the field. Its the Canon way of doing business.

September 6th, 2009, 08:11 PM	#8
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Jon, My solution for mid priced fast good lenses on a cropped sensor like the 7D would be the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 and the Sigma 30mm f1.4 I'd prefer to use Canon or Nikon glass but these seem to be the best alternatives right now. If you stick with Canon the 35mm f1.4L us the way to go for 'standard' look on the 7D. The Olympus 21mm f2 with an adaptor or the Sigma 20mm f1.8 are the only 'fast' alternatives for a wide. Dan

September 6th, 2009, 08:39 PM	#9
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Dan, There isn't anything wrong with the Canon 10-22 on the 7D either

September 6th, 2009, 09:42 PM	#10
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Ray, In general the Canon 10-22 is a fine lens, but its not f2.8 and it changes max aperture as you zoom. Also for video it has pretty hard to use manual focus with a thin none too smooth ring , compared to the Tokina's nice broad focus ring. Also the Canon makes it harder to fit a follow focus as most manfacturers gear rings will be hard to fit on that thin ring and not cause excess friction. Also the Tokina lens has hard stops in manual focus. If you have the Canon already, or want it primarily for stills then I'd be happy enough, but as a new purchase for the 7D for video, I'd probably go with the Tokina. Dan

September 6th, 2009, 11:01 PM	#12
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Jon, Totally agree on the Sigma, not sure either why Canon and Nikon can't sort out a decent fast ultrawide. The Sigma's do have slightly different colour characteristics too if you looking for a perfect match with other lenses, so a Canon or Nikon would be highly welcomed. So it looks like the fast wide to standard Prime lenses of choice for a 7D are the 14mm f2.8L II Canon, 20mm f1.8 Sigma, 24mm f1.4L II Canon, 30mm f1.4 Sigma, 35mm f1.4 Canon, 50mm f1.2L or 1.4 Canon, 50mm f1.4 Zeiss. You could throw in the Nikon 50mm f1.2 and 1.4, 28mm f1.4 AF and the 35mm f1.4 MF if you are prepared to use adapters. For a fast f2.8 wide zoom I think the Tokina is the only option now. Dan

September 6th, 2009, 11:41 PM	#13
Jaser Stockert Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: California Posts: 147	Dan, for the tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, is the canon or nikon(w/ EOS adaptor) version preferred? i see many recommended nikon compatible lenses over a canon...what's so popular about the nikons over canons? thanks.

September 7th, 2009, 05:18 AM	#14
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Jaser, There is no advantage I can think of for buying the Tokina in Nikon fit, far simpler just to get the Canon fitting one. Dan

September 7th, 2009, 02:31 PM	#15
Don Miller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 706	The Nikon 14-24 2.8 G is an incredible lens, and excellent wide open. But $2K plus a $250 adapter. The other higher end choice is the Canon 16-35 2.8. It's not as good, but takes screw on filters. For top-of-the line fast Nikon 14-24 2.8 Canon 24L II f 1.4-----alt Canon 24L first edition Canon 35L 1.4 Sigma 50 1.4-----------alt Canon 50L Canon 85L II 1.2-------alt Canon 85L first series or Canon 85 1.8 Canon 135L f2 This is the top of the line in terms of IQ/Speed. The Canon 50 1.2 is not as good as the Sigma under f2. The other Sigmas are noticeably inferior to Canon. For a mid fast zoom the Canon 24-70 2.8 is the best available.