New 6dii announced
 

Arghhh no 4K , canon what is wrong with you

Re: New 6dii announced
 

It's that 'market segmentation' again.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Yes i suppose there are the just canon lovers like Sony and Panasonic and Canon know that!! The specs are good but just not good enough for other people to get the 6dii.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Well, if it offered 4K video in an SD card, it wouldn't be very nice (it would be terribly compressed).

I am very interested in that model, it offers a good upgrade from my 6D. If the HD video has very low moire and rolling shutter at 60 fps, I shall be very satisfied.

The dual pixel AF and touch screen were hoped for, if it offers good performance, it will be a very capable full frame dSLR.

N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

So much like the GH5, GH4 etc, various Sony Mirrorless cameras and ironically enough Canon's very own C200 if not shooting RAW.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Wow, a whopping full HD!

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Well, if you know of a full frame dSLR offering 4K video at two thousand dollars, I am all ears.

N.F

Re: New 6dii announced
 

The original Sony A7S.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Just ordered two 6dii from wex uk, i am liking the spec apart from 4k but thats not that important the other specs are

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Didn't take long for the Downfall Hitler Rant Parody to feature the 6D Mark II. Kind of says it all really.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

If you don't need 4K and if they did improve the moire issues that plagued the previous version then this can be a nice upgrade, only not sure how many are willing to spend 2130euro for it (launchprice in Belgium) when you can get a sony a7s for 2000. The 6D will find it's audience for sure but it's clear that Canon is not interested in innovating for video with the dslr line of camera's, if you want something for more serious videowork then you need to invest into their c-line of camera's.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

I'd love Canon to give me a good excuse to invest in their c-line cameras. I like the size and control layout, colour of the video it produces and an auto focus second to none. Why, oh why then Canon, do you have to get so much else wrong. At least below £10000.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Footage from this new 6dii will be on par with the excellent canon latest 5d, but this will have the articulated screen the dual pixel af the best in the business the full frame look not the micro thirds (tried) to make the full frame look. I am not bothered about 4k i am bothered about my story line and wedding feature films which i may say are spot on after this years 17 happy couples feedback, who for some reason keep getting me new clients for 2018/19??

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Steve Bleasdale: If you can put off your purchase for a few weeks you should be able to purchase 6DII's at far below main dealer prices. For example the 5D Mark IV is still going for £3349, down from £3600, but grey market from the well-reported Panamoz go for £2441 and are always in stock. If you prefer to get grey market via a UK dealer with a physical presence you can get them the next day for just £2519 from the equally well-respected Hdew.

Canon main dealers are only 12 months warranty whereas the two grey ones I mentioned are 3 years. Hdew apparently fixes any warranty repairs via a UK main dealer service facility anyway.

I have 5D IV's and 5DS-R's via grey and these can be registered with Canon Professional Services anyway. That hasn't been possible to do online when I've tried in the past but all I had to do was quote the serial numbers and invoice copies and CPN added the kit.

I added three Canon 600EXII-RT flashguns via Hdew a few days ago. These were £349 each instead of the usual main dealer £530. They arrived by 9am the next day and this time I was able to add them to Canon Professional Services entirely online.

I switched from Panasonic video cams to Canon dSLRs for video about a year ago once the 5D-IV's proved such a winner. Sometimes I use a 5DS-R for video as well. I use some older 5's with Magic Lantern so that the 30min max clip is circumvented, plus their firmware's ability to work manual focus via a small screen within a screen.

The articulating screen in the 6DII looks very useful - though I'm not sure if I'd be able to clip a Zacuto Z-Finder on it as I do sometimes with non-articulating cams. Meanwhile where there's a will there's a way and sometimes I use a metal cased pocket-sized mirror to check compositions in awkward positions:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The other biggie with the 6DII for me would be its 5 point body stabilisation for video.

I agree with you as regards 4k. It seems like a solution looking for a problem in my view. But if 4k is pushed as a "must have" it is bound to take over whether its worthwhile or not.

I might be more interested in 8k in due course principally because of the ability to crop. That works great with stills with the 5DS-R as its 50mp RAW (can give 8 different 10"x8" stills from each frame without any interpolation) means I don't really need to use long lenses any more.

I've nearly bought the GH5 and its little brothers lots of times but I'm just not finding these convincing. The GH5's articulating screen and unlimited file times are pluses but the robustness doesn't feel like it competes. In particular the Canon 50mm f1.2L and the Sigma 20mm f1.4 Art make the little Panny lenses like toys to me. I'll have to put up with heavy and edit in post with Mercalli if I just can't stabilise on the move enough compared to a little Panny G80.

Pete

Re: New 6dii announced
 

That is just the strength of m4/3, the possibility to use very small and very light lenses which perform very well but you can just as well get some high quality and bigger/heavier glass like the Nocticron or Olympus pro line. And you don't need to worry that the camera falls apart, my gh3 has stood the test of time and the gh5 is a level up when it comes to build quality, that's a camera that can take a beating. :)

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Great points Peter... I have already ordered them so will continue, i also looked at the gh5, got a hold of one in Williamson's camera shop.
During filming not once did it stay in focus with the 12-35 2.8 lens on in the shop, so i gave it back within 2 minutes.
Yes there are fixes but more than not even the gh5 lovers will say the focus sucks.
Now my 80ds are amazing and with the vision tech profile the colours and footage are amazing, the focus amazing.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Great points Peter... I have already ordered them so will continue, i also looked at the gh5, got a hold of one in Williamson's camera shop.
During filming not once did it stay in focus with the 12-35 2.8 lens on in the shop, so i gave it back within 2 minutes.
Yes there are fixes in some settings but more than not even the gh5 lovers will say the focus sucks.
Now my 80ds are amazing and with the vision tech profile the colours and footage are amazing, the focus amazing.
As i have all canon glass, 24-70 2.8 vc tamron, 70-200 2.8, 85mm 1.8, 17-55 2.8, this is the reason i have not bought the sony a7sii again. sony a7sii 2,000 pound then the cheapest good lens for sony 750, then another top lens at 1500 sent it way over the top.
I am comfy with canon, comfy with the brilliant auto focus system, i dont need 4k, so i am good. The low light on the 6dii will be great just like my other 6d sold.Keep the 24-70 2.8 iso 3200 will be brilliant as ikt always is with full frame. Cheers Steve

Re: New 6dii announced
 

The GH5 isn't for everyone. It'll be a dull World and internet forum if we all agreed on the best camera. :)

Now I love my GH5, but I agree AF sucks and yeah the lenses do look like toys. Some of them. Ironically I have a Samyang 10mm that doesn't and it has arguably the poorest quality. It's results that count not how a lens looks and at over a grand for some of my lens, it's an expensive toy for sure. Wish my own as a boy were that expensive. :)

The GH5 is quite sturdy, more than its size suggests. Years of abuse of my GH4 and it still delivers. I've dropped a few toy lenses and still they've worked and yet seen a Photographer have their bulky lens fall to the floor and suddenly it can't focus. The bigger they are....

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Was the launch price two thousand dollars?

Besides that this is not a dSLR, and it is not a very good photographic camera - the Canon dSLRs are first photo cameras and secondary video cameras.

N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

understatement of the year, well any of the last 5 or 6 years at least...
I can't believe they are still offering soft mushy, barely 'hd' footage in 2017 and folk are still buying it.
Canon are so frustrating - I've got a c100 and I have to use Sony and Panasonic as 'b' cameras because Canons dslr footage looks awful when cut with it. DPAF is great but not at the cost of image quality

Re: New 6dii announced
 

If I remember correctly my C100 experience, they have a dSLR-like profile, which *raises* contrast in order to intercut with DSLR cameras.

N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

but that is just going backwards - dumbing down the c100 and reducing its dynamic range using a standard picture profile in order for it to work with Canon dslr - and even then the sharpness difference is blatantly obvious. I am better off using an old Panasonic gh2 as a b camera which at least resolves a decent hd image, or if I need more dynamic range I use a Sony a6300. I have loads of Canon lenses and am having to use them on other manufacturers cameras because Canon haven't moved forward with their dslr video quality since the 5d mk2

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Well, Canon still tries to segment the markets between stills cameras and video cameras.

Do you want 4K video, with cropping? Go to the 5D4 or the 2DX2. Or get the C300, seems to be the official line (if the XC15 isn't your taste). And pay for that with Cfast cards and huge files.

For my needs (primarily photos and some HD video), the 6D2 looks excellent on paper. Going to 1080p60 is a nice improvement compared to the current model.

N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

I think for someone who shoots mainly photos and does some video, a Canon DSLR makes great sense. Canon clearly see their DSLR's as tools for Photographers, who are occasionally being asked to shoot some video. In that line, their 5D Mark IV stands as one of their top Professional tools for this and the 6D Mark II is basically for those who can't be bothered to pay for the 5D. Hence why they strip it of as many features they feel they can get away. Unusually it also means stripping back the ALL-I codec the Mark I had.

Since I shoot Video with the occasional photos, a camera that favours video over Photography is more desired, and in that Panasonic and Sony tend to lead the way there. Though neither are perfect, they get more things right with video than Canon manages in their DSLR line.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Note that the all-I codec was using 90 Mbps for 25 or so FPS.
If you were shooting at 60p, an all-I codec would need 180+ Mbps, which is not possible with SD cards.

A small omission is the lack of a headphone jack, which would permit monitoring the sound. But most serious videographers record audio separately, anyway.
N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

That is not true, presently you can get SD cards with a write speed of 90MB/s.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Aside from the fact that SD cards can handle that data as even my GH4 had a 200mbps option, there's the little matter that having 60p shouldn't necessitate crippling 30p codec. You can have 30p all-I and yet still have 60p and 30p at ipb. One doesn't preclude the other.

I agree about the seperate audio, but there are occasions I have needed to record audio internally. Why do you think those investing in say a C100 praise it over DSLRs for its XLR inputs. I've often used a H4N Zoom as my audio go between, and relied on the headphone socket to monitor its output into my cameras. As a B camera to say a C100, this omission is no deal breaker, but anyone using a 6D as an A camera for video might find it a potential problem.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

I think you are confusing the bitrate of a codec with the write and read speed of a sd card which is not the same.

You record your sound as close to the source as possible and that can be done with separate recorders which can be connected directly to your camera via a wireless system so a headphone jack can become a critical part on your camera. Professional cameras have a xlr module build in for that purpose. You can also put a shotgun on your camera for reference or ambient sound and being able to listen in to make sure you don't end up with no sound when the mike would die if it's a battery powered one is also critical to secure you get your sound. Those are just two examples I can think of where a headphone jack is much needed. Not providing that is intentional crippling the camera for video use.

I would rather say a that most serious videographers monitor their sound at all times.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Unless I misremembered, the all-I codec requires 90 Mbps write speed, so it follows that double the frame rate would result in double the data rate.

Regarding headphone jacks, some shotgun mics like my Saramonic offer one on the microphone already (I think that some Rode do this, too).
Expecting a DSLR to offer XLR connectors etc sounds a bit much to me. The 6D2 is first and foremost a stills camera, don't demand that she offers things like zebra, C-log etc. This is not the market she is targeting.

N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Nick, you seem to be taking pieces of arguments and throwing them back with counter arguments that make no sense. My point about C100 using XLRs was not to suggest I was expecting DSLR's to have such inputs, but to suggest only that internal audio recording can be desired by Professional Videographers and therefore not being able to monitor it can be an issue. Not for everyone. It depends what you're buying the camera for.

Equally Noa was making a point that SD Cards quote write speed in one format and the camera uses another. Here's something I have grabbed from a website that may explain things better:

"There’s a subtle discrepancy between how video bitrates and memory card write speeds are conveyed that can lead to some major confusion:

Video bitrates are described in Mbps— megabits per second– while memory card write speeds are measured in MB/s— megabytes per second.

Megabits (Mb), megabytes (MB) – what kind of difference can a bit of capitalization make? A big difference, actually.

1 Megabyte = 8 Megabits"

This being the case, a well classed SD Cards can handle 180mbps contrary to your initial suggestion.

I don't think anyone will argue the 6D Mark II isn't aimed for Photographers. I'm not critical of this camera for a lack of zebra, focus peaking etc. I'm more critical of the 5D Mark IV for lacking such features. When my £500 GX80 can allow focus peaking and zebra and the 5D Mark IV can't, you wonder why Canon even bother to target this camera to Video users.

Where the 6D Mark II falls short is in for its price, lacking a headphone socket (minor issue), no 4K and HD that still can't match up to the C100 based on what I have seen so far and others report on it. Canon could have done better and still kept it within its budget FF price range.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

A 90MB/s rated SD card handles a 200mbps 50fps all intra codec just fine, I at least have no issues with it on my GH4. Remember that bitrates are in Mbps ( megabits per second) while memory card write speeds are in MB/s (megabytes per second.) and 1 megabyte = 8 megabits so a 200mbps codec actually only requires actually only 25MB/s rated card but that would be the absolute minimum. I tested the 200mbps 50fps all intra codec on a 30MB/s card and it also recorded fine as well. (I hope I have all the numbers right, if not then anyone feel free to correct me)

You can have several workarounds to monitor your sound, bottomline is, a camera that is designed to also shoot video should have a headphone jack to monitor your sound, it otherwise only forces you to find other solutions, it also shows that Canon's focus for this camera is on photography mainly with video as secondary purpose.

edit: lol; Steve beat me to it :)

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Hello there,

The all-I codec uses approximately 685 Mbytes per minute of storage.

This translates to 91 Mbps required write speed on the SD card.
Reference: Canon Professional eXchange

So, if you push double the frame rate via the all-I codec, this will translate to approximately double the amount (180+ Mbps write speed required).

Clearer now?

N.F.
PS. I do not remember mentioning Mbytes per second in my previous messages

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Unless I missed it, I didn't see you mentioning the 6D's 25p all intra codec was 685MB/min, that would have made things a lot clearer. In such a case I guess these would do: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...i_sd_card.html

Re: New 6dii announced
 

I wrote:
Remember that the 6D2 can use up to UHS-1 SD cards.

N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

So you're defending a Canon crippling of their camera by highlighting another crippling of their camera. Wow, that's a neat bit of work.

You're still making the same mistake in thinking that having all-I means having it for 60p. Is there some reason you can't get your head around the fact you can have it for 30p only and then ipb also for 30p and 60p. My very old and dust gathering GH3 had this option. Its not that difficult to implement. 30p all-I, 60p ipb. Its that simple.

If Panasonic followed your line of logic, it couldn't have a 10 bit 4:2:2 codec option on the basis the file size would be too large for 60p. But no, rather cleverly they have provided it for 30p but used 8 bit 4:2:0 for 60p.

Still here's me talking about a £1699 camera having 10 bit 4:2:2 4K in a thread about a £1999 camera that not only lacks 4K, but has HD that looks more like 720p than the 1080p it purports to be.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Strewth, I'm reminded why I hardly ever bother to post in any forums these days. So many people get cross quickly about so many things. I never ever use social media as its even worse :- )

Anyway, I'm disappointed to learn that the GH5 is still suspect as regards auto-focus. I had imagined that some sort of proper fix or firmware would have solved it. Apart from that the GH5 is smaller and lighter than the 5 series but not that much smaller and lighter to make a real difference for me. I'm also on the fence because of its poor battery life and its possible need to add battery grips and XLR units.

I'll probably add a Panasonic G80 though as a locked off cam for tight spaces or when its vital that equipment does not intrude into the ambience. Some similarities with a GoPro for how to use. For example here is an old camcorder located on a window using a suction mount:
http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/826-de...ate-Surrey.jpg

Imagine trying to put a C300 on a tripod in the window bay area! Not going to happen.

Still a disappointment that the G80 and GX80 don't have unlimited times - still stuck at 30 minutes. Good that the GH5 has no limit though.

I shoot mainly event and weddings and I use multicam with 3 or 4 a lot. I can't imagine 4k being practical for that any time soon.

""You record your sound as close to the source as possible and that can be done with separate recorders which can be connected directly to your camera via a wireless system so a headphone jack can become a critical part on your camera. Professional cameras have a xlr module build in for that purpose. You can also put a shotgun on your camera for reference or ambient sound and being able to listen in to make sure you don't end up with no sound when the mike would die if it's a battery powered one is also critical to secure you get your sound. Those are just two examples I can think of where a headphone jack is much needed. Not providing that is intentional crippling the camera for video use. I would rather say a that most serious videographers monitor their sound at all times.""

I use standalone audio recorders routinely, usually Zoom H4n, H1's, and a tiny Olympus that may be taped to a venue mic. I also use three Sennheiser G3 wireless systems. I sync in post with Pluraleyes (may switch from Vegas to DaVinci).

However I've also used the Rode Videomic Pro recently onto Canon 5's and been pleasantly surprised. I bought one on an Amazon lightning deal at just £99 but didn't even try it for several months. Now I like them and i bought another on a deal at £139 which included a free Rode deadcat. They will always be backups except when they must be used but are much more usable that my Rode NTG2's because the latter are too long to avoid getting into shot if with a wide lens. The Videomic Pro is not XLR but so what - the lead is so short its irrelevant.

The Rode Videomic Pro has to be switched on - caught me out at first because the NTG2 has an AA battery which provides power automatically. Apparently its green light switches to red when the battery is a few hours from exhausting. The Videomic Pro is very tricky to changes batteries quickly :- (

This coming Saturdays wedding is with a very easy-going vicar - she even suggested to me at the rehearsal that I set up for video standing in the pulpit! Thanks but no thanks! However she will not take a Sennheiser lav kit so I'll be relying on the groom's lav and a few H1's hidden nearby (church's system is not accessible).

Tony Northrup's videos on all manor of things including video shooting are well worth watching. There isn't actual 6DII's being used as yet - too early - but the basics are handy:


Pete

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Whose cross? :) It's called lively debate. What forums excel at. I've had people disagree with me and even learnt a thing or two from it. I agree some take things here too seriously, but I always place forum chatter in its proper context. Its no different than a group of lads arguing down the pub over which football team is the best. Though I think sometimes what is written can be taken out of context and viewed with more seriousness than intended. Some of my posts can be more tongue in cheek, but that's hard to convey sometimes.

My G80 is the one camera I find disappointing and plan to sell it once I have a 2nd GH5. One of the issues, though minor as a B Camera is no headphone socket despite having a mic socket. The 2 should go together. Clip limit is archaic and tolerable on the GX80 as its small size makes it useful. The G80 was not a winner for me. Its days in my kit bag are numbered. :)

I shoot all my Weddings 4K (since 2015) and give the couples both HD and 4K files on USB. I typically run 4-6 cameras per Wedding. Mind, I know what you mean when one Wedding ran almost to 1TB, though most are in the 350gb to 560gb range. Alas I'm a 4K buff for my sins and just can't go back to HD filming.

I also do a same day edit of part of the Ceremony (10-15 mins worth) when this service is booked, editing 4 of the cameras on a small crappy PC and then outputting a 4K Video for my 4K TV that I setup in the evening for the Reception. I don't get too many of these requests though and just as well. I'm running out of hair as it is.

Much the same. Though I have a Panasonic Shotgun Mic and it was a great investment. No off switch or batteries and can be controlled via the camera. Oh how I was caught out so many times by shotgun mics that needed to be switched on. So it was worth the extra investment.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

In Europe at least Panasonic is the only manufacturer so far that has given us unlimited recording in a photocamera, neither Sony or Canon have bothered to do something about that silly EU law that limits recording times. I too would liked to have had unlimited recording on the G80 but at least the GH5 is giving us this.

The fact remains that we have to find workarounds for intentional crippling that manufacturers apply, it's not because there are other ways to record audio that it's ok to leave out a headphone jack, there are plenty of moments during the day I need the incamera audio and not being able to listen in what the camera is recording makes me nervous. On my GH5 I use a Tascam TM-2X which draws power from the camera battery so I don't need to think about powering it on or off, but in case you use a battery powered mike on camera you definitely need a headphone jack to make sure the battery doesn't die or that you forget to turn it on. Eventhough there are dslr mics that have a build in headphone jack it is something I consider a necessity on a camera when recording video.

I could not do without 4K for multicam shoots, it's a Godsend for soloshooters for it's cropping ability. It gives me a multitude of framing options. I also have sold my first 4K package for a next years wedding, I charge 190euro extra for that and they get a 4K master on a 64GB usb stick. I still will deliver a HD file as well. As soon as 4K becomes a standard I most likely cannot charge extra for it but until then it's a nice paid add-on that hardly requires any of my time as I let my pc render during moments I"m not editing.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

I am not defending something, just explaining why some things are not possible in the particular setup.

Then, many people would be complaining about the lack of all-I codec in 60p.
You cannot please everyone.

N.F.

Re: New 6dii announced
 

Not a good excuse to remove it in my opinion. The GH5 is getting all-I for 4K at 10 bit 4:2:2, but only for 25p/30p. I'm not complaining its lack in 50p/60p, even though it would be welcome. I certainly wouldn't want 30p all-I removed just cos the manufacturer can't give it to me in 60p. Be a bit silly.

Actually the video Peter posted addresses the shortcomings of the 6D, whist acknowledging its good points. For a model updated every 5 years, it feels like 3 years too late already with its current video specs. Still as you say, it's a Photographers tool really and not one designed to be taken seriously for video.

For Photography, the lack of a joystick and the focus points all bunched in the centre has irked some Photographers, as is the lack of dual card slots, which may have been a more welcome upgrade by Photographers than a flip screen. Itself welcomed by Video users. Its a curious beast the 6D that's for sure.