help w/future prosumer cam purchase at DVinfo.net

Jake McMurray · June 29th, 2003, 03:56 AM

Hey guys, this is my first post so naturally I'm going to ask for a bit of help. First I'll tell you a bit about myself quick. I'm currently a 20 yr old student in Bellingham WA. I'm very interested in video production. A few months ago I decided to look into buying some of my own equipment. For the next month or so I will be borrowing a cheap dv camera while I save up for something in the 2,000 range. The camera will be used almost exclusively to make narrative movies about whatever I can come up with.

I've been doing some research on the Canon GL2, vx2000, JVC streamcorder, and the Sony Pdx10. They all seem fairly similar with differing tradeoffs between them. I have to say that right now I'm leaning towards the pdx10 for its good 16x9 which is an essential feature to me.

One question is I haven't heard much of anything about the widescreen modes on the other cams. When people shoot widescreen with the other cameras do they use one of those 16x9 lenses? Does this method beat out the incamera 16x9 of the pdx10? How much does the 16x9 lense add to the cost on average? Enough to put me in another price range all together? Is there anywhere in the Bellingham/Seattle/Vancouver area to check out these cameras.

The low light is worrisome with the pdx10 because I will be using the camera sometimes in situations that may call for low light performance...you never know.

for my needs I have them rated like this 1.pdx10 2.GL2 3. JVC 4. Vx2000.

I'm going to try my best to check out these cameras in person, but I still would appreciate any and all help especially with the 16x9 issue. Which camera has the best audio? What about between the pdx10/GL2. Thanks guys.

Frank Granovski · June 29th, 2003, 04:17 AM

I think overall the 16:9 mode is better in the PDX10 and PV-DV953 than using an adaptor. There's a lot of cons with such an adaptor, such as the price, for a start. Optex and Century make the best ones for miniDV cams as far as I know; I don't know anything about the new one from Pana for the 100/80. Perhaps, like you say, buy a cheap cam and wait for the real prosumer HD cams to come into the market in a few years.

Low light? Yeah, that sucks. But what can you do?

Zac Stein · June 29th, 2003, 04:21 AM

Are any of those cams he just listed even in the $2000 price range?

A lot of the prosumer cams seem to hover more around $3000 before you spend another $3000 just for essential gear.

Zac

Marco Leavitt · June 29th, 2003, 09:04 AM

I wouldn't buy a cam that didn't have native 16:9. It's too bad there aren't more choices right now. This is an unfortunate time to be buying. One nice thing about the PDX10 is that it's so small it will come in handy for quite a while as a backup cam even after you upgrade to something else.

Jake McMurray · June 29th, 2003, 11:45 AM

most of the cameras listed are in the 2,000 range at BHPhoto, and profeel. The cheapest camera is the pdx10 at just below 2,000 at Dbuys, the others vary. Do the other cameras have a widescreen mode that isn't simply matteing off the top and bottom? Thanks.

Boyd Ostroff · June 29th, 2003, 01:19 PM

Jake,

No, the VX-2000 and GL-2 both just crop a 4:3 image to 720x360, then stretch it back to 720x480 to make it anamorphic. For some comparison tests of the 16:9 on the PDX-10 and VX-2000 see http://www.greenmist.com/pdx10

Jake McMurray · June 29th, 2003, 06:14 PM

what were your guy's personal deal breakers for each camera you looked into, more specifically the cameras I mentioned above?

The video hardware of the JVC streamcorder looks impressive on paper and from what I hear actually is very good. The thing that bugged me about in the dv.com review was that when one adjusts the iris manually while shooting it is noticeable, making using the manual exposure not possible while filming. Any videos out of this? Is it noticeable on the other cameras I mentioned?

Pretty much the widescreen mode is what is pointing me towards the pdx10. Are there any drawbacks to this unit. What made you guys purchase something else in this price range? Thanks.

Boyd Ostroff · June 29th, 2003, 07:24 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jake McMurray : The thing that bugged me about in the dv.com review was that when one adjusts the iris manually while shooting it is noticeable

Sorry, but that's also the case with the VX-2000, the iris opens in "clicks". I also believe this is true on the PDX-10, but have not tried to change the iris while tape is rolling on this camera yet....

Jake McMurray · June 29th, 2003, 10:47 PM

hmm thats funny because at dv.com the guy has reviewed both cameras (I think his name is Bruce Johnson) and he reviewd the pdx10 after the streamcorder. He mentioned the iris stops or whatever they are called in his review. And noted that it sort of hamstringed the camera or something to that effect. This month he reviewed the pdx10 and made no such comment about the iris stops. I'll ask about it in the camera over there.

But yeah I've been working like crazy lately to get a camera, this is exciting though a bit confusing.

I'm trying to find out information about which features do what etc to figure out the best I can whats important to me.

One question. The JVC streamcorder has a CINE look mode which to my understanding changes the color curve in camera to replicate that of film. Like an S right? Is this anything special? Could'nt I just change the color curve to replicate that of film on an NLE like Vegas 4, or After effects or something? Thanks.

Jake McMurray · June 30th, 2003, 01:04 AM

another question. The JVC doesn't have that vertical smear problem like the pdx10 in the example at greenmist right?

Jake McMurray · June 30th, 2003, 01:34 AM

also is it pure speculation as to which new models will be coming out and when at this point?

June 29th, 2003, 03:56 AM	#1
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	help w/future prosumer cam purchase Hey guys, this is my first post so naturally I'm going to ask for a bit of help. First I'll tell you a bit about myself quick. I'm currently a 20 yr old student in Bellingham WA. I'm very interested in video production. A few months ago I decided to look into buying some of my own equipment. For the next month or so I will be borrowing a cheap dv camera while I save up for something in the 2,000 range. The camera will be used almost exclusively to make narrative movies about whatever I can come up with. I've been doing some research on the Canon GL2, vx2000, JVC streamcorder, and the Sony Pdx10. They all seem fairly similar with differing tradeoffs between them. I have to say that right now I'm leaning towards the pdx10 for its good 16x9 which is an essential feature to me. One question is I haven't heard much of anything about the widescreen modes on the other cams. When people shoot widescreen with the other cameras do they use one of those 16x9 lenses? Does this method beat out the incamera 16x9 of the pdx10? How much does the 16x9 lense add to the cost on average? Enough to put me in another price range all together? Is there anywhere in the Bellingham/Seattle/Vancouver area to check out these cameras. The low light is worrisome with the pdx10 because I will be using the camera sometimes in situations that may call for low light performance...you never know. for my needs I have them rated like this 1.pdx10 2.GL2 3. JVC 4. Vx2000. I'm going to try my best to check out these cameras in person, but I still would appreciate any and all help especially with the 16x9 issue. Which camera has the best audio? What about between the pdx10/GL2. Thanks guys.

June 29th, 2003, 04:17 AM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I think overall the 16:9 mode is better in the PDX10 and PV-DV953 than using an adaptor. There's a lot of cons with such an adaptor, such as the price, for a start. Optex and Century make the best ones for miniDV cams as far as I know; I don't know anything about the new one from Pana for the 100/80. Perhaps, like you say, buy a cheap cam and wait for the real prosumer HD cams to come into the market in a few years. Low light? Yeah, that sucks. But what can you do?

June 29th, 2003, 04:21 AM	#3
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Are any of those cams he just listed even in the $2000 price range? A lot of the prosumer cams seem to hover more around $3000 before you spend another $3000 just for essential gear. Zac

June 29th, 2003, 09:04 AM	#4
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I wouldn't buy a cam that didn't have native 16:9. It's too bad there aren't more choices right now. This is an unfortunate time to be buying. One nice thing about the PDX10 is that it's so small it will come in handy for quite a while as a backup cam even after you upgrade to something else.

June 29th, 2003, 11:45 AM	#5
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	most of the cameras listed are in the 2,000 range at BHPhoto, and profeel. The cheapest camera is the pdx10 at just below 2,000 at Dbuys, the others vary. Do the other cameras have a widescreen mode that isn't simply matteing off the top and bottom? Thanks.

June 29th, 2003, 01:19 PM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Jake, No, the VX-2000 and GL-2 both just crop a 4:3 image to 720x360, then stretch it back to 720x480 to make it anamorphic. For some comparison tests of the 16:9 on the PDX-10 and VX-2000 see http://www.greenmist.com/pdx10

June 29th, 2003, 06:14 PM	#7
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	what were your guy's personal deal breakers for each camera you looked into, more specifically the cameras I mentioned above? The video hardware of the JVC streamcorder looks impressive on paper and from what I hear actually is very good. The thing that bugged me about in the dv.com review was that when one adjusts the iris manually while shooting it is noticeable, making using the manual exposure not possible while filming. Any videos out of this? Is it noticeable on the other cameras I mentioned? Pretty much the widescreen mode is what is pointing me towards the pdx10. Are there any drawbacks to this unit. What made you guys purchase something else in this price range? Thanks.

June 29th, 2003, 07:24 PM	#8
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	<<<-- Originally posted by Jake McMurray : The thing that bugged me about in the dv.com review was that when one adjusts the iris manually while shooting it is noticeable Sorry, but that's also the case with the VX-2000, the iris opens in "clicks". I also believe this is true on the PDX-10, but have not tried to change the iris while tape is rolling on this camera yet....

June 29th, 2003, 10:47 PM	#9
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	hmm thats funny because at dv.com the guy has reviewed both cameras (I think his name is Bruce Johnson) and he reviewd the pdx10 after the streamcorder. He mentioned the iris stops or whatever they are called in his review. And noted that it sort of hamstringed the camera or something to that effect. This month he reviewed the pdx10 and made no such comment about the iris stops. I'll ask about it in the camera over there. But yeah I've been working like crazy lately to get a camera, this is exciting though a bit confusing. I'm trying to find out information about which features do what etc to figure out the best I can whats important to me. One question. The JVC streamcorder has a CINE look mode which to my understanding changes the color curve in camera to replicate that of film. Like an S right? Is this anything special? Could'nt I just change the color curve to replicate that of film on an NLE like Vegas 4, or After effects or something? Thanks.

June 30th, 2003, 01:04 AM	#10
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	another question. The JVC doesn't have that vertical smear problem like the pdx10 in the example at greenmist right?

June 30th, 2003, 01:34 AM	#11
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	also is it pure speculation as to which new models will be coming out and when at this point?