Cannot FF/RW tapes in my GL2
 

First off, thanks to all you pros who take the time to answer what must be simplistic questions from neophytes like me.

Lately, my GL2 has told me to eject the cassette everytime I try to rewind or fast forward a tape. This, of course, sucks. I want to shoot with the GL2, so I've resorted to using my Sony TRV17 to rewind/ff, and to transfer tapes shot on the GL2 to my NLE program. I haven't noticed any picture quality loss (perhaps I haven't started with any! :)) and have had no problem recording. I just cannot ff/rw.

I am using Maxell tapes and, after reading posts here, experimented with recorded panasonics. Same deal. I have RW/FF in my Sony to "tighten" the tape to see if that mattered but to no avail. I'll buy a different brand tomorrow but do not have high hopes.

I read in the manual that the camera will tell me to "eject the cassette" in the case of condensation but I have not been filming in the shower or anything.

Any thoughts?

I have checked GL2 Son of watchdog and have found useful info on use of particular brands, etc. but haven't found an answer to my particular problem so thanks for bearing with me.

Also, I had supposed that the quality of my images were captured on the tape and thus it did not matter if I used another camera to capture images to my NLE. Is this wrong?

I have an extended warranty from the place I got the camera and so, theoretically, can walk in and have the camera replaced (theoretically). But I'd rather 1)understand the problem and 2) keep my camera.

Thanks for your time in responding to this post

Diane

Diane . . Nasty! Nasty! . . . Yup, I too get the Eject Tape warning. MiniDV is relatively delicate stuff compared to full DV formats. Smaller tape width, smaller rollers, guides and capstans. And all of this is in a "pop-up" caddie that emerges from the innards of the machine. I/we have to take great care in "feeding" and removing miniDV from these animals. Does the Eject tape warning persist on repeat attempts?

My thoughts are to EITHER unpack the tape first - ie FF and then REW - OR start with a piece of recorded black leader first THEN do the FF/REW shimmy . . . . try swapping around your propcess. I'm presuming you can actually capture action on film?

But yes, you've bought an expensive piece of kit, one should expect it to perform straight off and do so for many months OR large numbers of miniDV tapes - which ever comes first - without the hassles you are experienceing - yeah?

I'm not too happy with your range of tried tapes. I aint no tape engineer, but I'm sticking to Sony Premiums . . . . yes I get a hiccup . . . but wiuth the advice that has been given here of late, I've been able to get through it - yeah?

As to filimng in the shower - hah! - Okay condensation is a no no for this activity. But there again how moiste is moiste -yeah? Maybe the sensors are overly cautious - not a bad thing. My thoughts on this is that both the tape AND the cammie would need to be at the same sought of temperature and "dryness" to not set up any form of disparity allowing for condensation to form . . how little there maybe... and again miniDV is tiny tiny engineering, yeah? I don't know the tolerances of condensation values AGAINST the sensor tolerances. Maybe you're storing the tapes in a somewhat differnt environment to the cammie . . maybe a insignificant to you and me, but maybe enough to set of the sensor and give you the warning - yeah? OR after all this chat about dampness it maybe you've been unlucky and got with a doubtful, badly stored batch of minDV tapes . . . I can't say. . . . but I would really stay with one brand . . there's been masses talked about this here and other places . . .

Simplistic question? - nah! No worries and no need! It's the answers you/I/we need to this one . . . keep the faith . . others, myslef included have had this warning and have carried on filming. I had the sdame the other day, AND I had used all the stuff I said. Took the tape out. CAREFULLY replaced and gently pushed the caddie allowing the "lift" to descend back into the bowels of the cammie. Did it take it this time. YES! So what was all that about? - Dunno . . I filmed that night. Used 3 Sony Premiums. Uploaded to my pc and no worries . . .

Diane, pick what you want to out of my ramblings above . . . . but at the end of the day, it is you who will need to make that final decision to return the cammie or not . . . I bet the first thing they ask is if you've been mixing tape brands!

Regards,

Grazie

Diane

This doesn't sound in anyway normal for the GL2, so my recommendation would be to get it into Canon service immediately. The gl2 does seem to have a more sensitive mechanism than other canon camcorders I own, but eject tape messages have only happened a few times in 18 months. Your case appears to be out of the ordinary, and I would send it in sooner rather than later.

Barry

Diane,
I am not a video technician, but I suspect that the camera's tape transport may have detected some sort of contamination. Since you've been switching brands a bit, clearing up the problem may be as simple as running a cleaning tape for the amount of time prescribed on the tape's instructions.

Failing that, you may have to become acquaited with Canon's service department. Simply switching brands of tape will not truly resolve the problem.

Barry, I agree . . . .

Grazie

Sending it back
 

Something must have happened, since I have used it without incident since October 02. But nothing I do has worked. I get "eject the cassette" EVERY TIME I try to either rewind or fast forward a tape (over the past several weeks). I'm not rough on the kit, nor have I had it in any remotely questionable environs/conditions. My only suspect are the tapes themselves, Maxells bought at a Sam's Club in a six pack. Perhaps despite their packaging they suffered some sort of abuse?

If I learn anything useful from all of this, I will post it here. Thanks for the advice.

Diane

Diane,

Hopefully you are still under warranty...if not I would definitely send a letter to canon indicating that the problem started while it was ...I just had a situation where my gl2 came unraveled right at the end of the warranty period, but I mistook the problem as something wrong with my sony editing deck...I sent a nice letter pleading with them to have mercy...and they did the repair for free...which entailed replacing alot... the entire transport chassis, and several other "chassis".

Barry

I'm still under warranty (bought it 2/03), plus an extended warranty from the retailer (the one people say not to buy, but I've found extremely valuable). I just hope I can get it back before I leave for the Southwest in three weeks...I wonder how long these sort of repairs take?

Check out this thread as well Diana.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=15739

How do I make this a real link?

(Thanks Graham)

How do I make . . .

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/misc.php?action=bbcode

Diane,

Typically canon repair takes 7-10 days to process plus shipping time. I had my gl2 repaired this year and it came back in a little over two weeks...I would include your situation in your letter, as well as marking the package "PRO-EXPEDITE PLEASE". I've found that canon service is pretty responsive...you can also call them once the camera is in their system to check status, and you may be able to change the mailing address over the phone to have the package meet up with you on your trip.

Barry

Read the Wedding Horror thread (thanks for the tip Jim). I guess I'm luckier than Yow in that I didn't try to rw/ff after I got the EJECT message...I just took that sucker out! But my footage is always fine. And I continue to use the camera to shoot, just not to rw/ff. I'm sure I'm tempting fate and will get it in.

Actually, I put a Sony tape in after having all the MAxell tapes trigger the EJECT message after about 5 seconds of rr/ff, and it ran for a good 20 seconds without incident. I thought I had "fixed" the problem, but no. The GL2 demanded I eject the SONY as well.

I have a house full of adolescents and teenagers to deal with here. I don't need to add an overly-sensitive, uncooperative, self-centered CAMERA on top of it!

Diane

I read somewhere that the various tape manufacturers use different formulations of lubricant on their tapes and that using different brands in the same machine is not a good idea. Has something to do with the different lubes mixing it up a bit.

Has anyone else heard of this?

From day one on my XL1, I have used Panasonic tapes. Just acquired a "previously owned" (ok, USED) GL2 and I am trying to find out from the seller what tape he used.

Reed

Reed:

I have certainly read a lot about this on the threads. However, I must tell you that I had used a variety of different tapes heavily in the first few months when I got the camera and never had this problem (ELECT CASSETTE). In fact, it was only after I bought a quantity of Maxell tapes and so used them exclusively that the trouble began...

The Canon website deals with this in FAQ. It says

If the message "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" appears on the screen
The lit "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" message or flashing "EJECT" message indicates the camcorder's safety mechanism has been activated and has found an internal problem.
This means either the videocassette or the camcorder has developed a problem. Remove the videocassette and reinsert it or replace it with a different videocassette.
If "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" persists, seek assistance from a Canon Service Facility.

The fact that this is in "Frequently Asked Questions" says something. And I also think whatever the internal problem is, I have a hard time believing it was caused by not sticking to one brand of tape...

One tech told me he thinks its the "IC" (a chip that monitors the cassette mechanism) that needs to be replaced, that it is "bad."

Diane

Diane, this makes both sense and irritation. This is not a "cheap" cammie. It would be good if the IC protocal call out produced another Error message, suggestion that . . i don't know . . an Error 111 or 666 or whatever, THEN we coould all say ah that is what it is . .having a generic "Alert" to a tape is not acceptable in this day and age - yeah?

Look, Diane, well done, I really do appreciate for your time and reasearch . . . I just wished Mr Canon had been so thorough as you!

. . . hmmmm....

Grazie

Diane,
I'm starting to have the same problem. I've had my GL2 since March and this is the first problem I've had. I've been using mostly Panasonic tapes, but the last tape I had in the camera was a Sony. I'm having problems with the Panasonics, but I haven't tried others yet.

Did you have to send your camera in for repairs? Did Canon tell you what was wrong?

Thanks.

My camera is still "in the shop." Based on educated guesses from techs working counters at retail electronic shops (whose education I cannot vouch for) there is a chip responsible for the tape mechanism and they suspect that. My GL2 would give an "eject tape" notice after about 5 second of either a rewind or a fast forward 99.9% of the time. I had used the camera without incident for about 6 months (although I rarely used the GL2 to transfer images to the computer, so it was even SPOILED, never having to work really, really hard).

Canon has a FAQ on this topic on their website. http://www.canondv.com/ciw/ppg/gl2.html. Our issue is ranked #2 in the top 20 FAQ (ranked by hits, I believe)
Let me save you the trouble of navigating the website. Here is the complete response to: "If the message "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" appears on the screen..."

Category : Difficulties with camcorder operation
Description : Videocassette related trouble


The lit "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" message or flashing "EJECT" message indicates the camcorder's safety mechanism has been activated and has found an internal problem.
This means either the videocassette or the camcorder has developed a problem. Remove the videocassette and reinsert it or replace it with a different videocassette.
If "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" persists, seek assistance from a Canon Service Facility.


It is my opinion that tape brand-related problems would not be a likely candidate for this type of malfunction (I can still record with the G2 and have had no image quality issues...I just have to take the tape out once I've shot and rewind it/review it on my Sony TRV17(!!).

When my camera comes back, I will post any explanation Canon deigns to give me...

Diane

. . . . hmmmm . . this is beginning to feel like a "default" reset factory setting issue. We've all had this on many "chip/software" dependant widgets and gadgets . . Take out tape and restart? IMHO, this is similar to routing past a firmware thing. What does verybody else think?

. .. oh deary me . ..

Grazie

Canon's FAQ answer doesn't sound like much to go on at this point. But I tend to think it is a tape issue because of the fact my last tape was a Sony and I hadn't used them up until now. I can just picture the wet lube interacting with the dry lube residue on the tape head left by other tapes. What would it be like? Baby powder mixed with baby oil? I don't know. Plus, my camera's been in some dry and dusty conditions this summer and now I'm back in Georgia; I'm sure it's a little dirty in there, more than the standard tape head cleaner can handle. Just a guess though.

So when I rewind, if the tape goes longer than a few seconds without stopping, the timecode begins to flicker then it eventually gives an error. Fast forwarding hasn't given that result, but I haven't tested it too much. I want to hear the results of Diane's service call before I send my in because even though I know I will have to send the GL2 in eventually for a cleaning and "routine" maintenance, I'm wary because my other camera died a slow and unnecessary death in the hands of a supposedly knowledgeable service tech at a competing company.

Diane, thanks for keeping us imformed.

Logical cause and effect reasoning should be your first route. If you're not experiencing consistent eject messages like I was, then certainly eliminate tape switching as a cause. Sending your camera in for repair is certainly a last resort. I went through the 'is it a tape issue" scenario first (and hoped it WAS the problem!) If using the Sony tape caused the problem, then I would reason that that the mechanism would still need some sort of cleaning (tape head cleaner?) to rectify that problem...there are many posts that advice on how to troubleshoot that. I am puzzled that manufacturers of both cameras and tapes do not mention switching brands as a potential problem in either their manuals or their websites.

As much as it is discussed and accepted on a "real world" level, I have yet to run across this caution in manuals. It certainly would seem to be a responsible thing to discuss in a camera manual (along with warnings not to let a camera go through rapid temperature changes, etc etc)

It also seems logical to me that, if brand-switching and lubs etc could damage a camera, the consequences would not be limited to rewinding/fast-forwarding, but would manifest itself in the recording and picture quality as well. That is, every aspect that is tape-dependent. That was my thinking. Your experience may be different. I was GRATEFUL that whatever problem was causing my rw/ff issues, it hadn't affected my ability to at least shoot quality images to tape.

Keep us in touch re your situation as well, Dirk. If after cleaning your tape heads, etc. you no longer have an eject tape problem, it will be useful info for all of us in the future.

Diane

I can add to this, but the news is not good! I have a 2 year old Canon Opturi. Recently, whenever I would try to rewind the tape I would get the "Eject" message. Note that Fast forward, as well as fast forward and reverse search all worked fine. I bought a mini DV rewinder at Radio Shack to avoid the malfunction. The other day, I forgot and hit rewind. this time when I got the message the tape would not eject. I took the cam to the local vendor. the tech was able to get my tape out, but he explained that the videohead drum was not spinning up and so the camera was shutting down. The cam is on its way back to Canon.

I am seriously thinking of upgrading to the GL2, but I admit this thread now has me worried!

As I mentioned earlier, this is a FAQ on the Canon website and ranked #2 (out of 20) for having the most hits. I'm sure there are other GL2 users out there who have never had a problem (which hit me and another poster around 6 months after using). If there is something the user is doing to cause this, I sure wish Canon would tell us! This concept of second-guessing, and troubleshooting, and starting websites to figure out glitches and bugs must be nirvana to manufacturers in that I rarely see them taking (or being asked to take) any responsibility for the malfunctions. Technology has taught us to not only expect it, but deal with it.

If there is a Canon Rep out there who can give us some insight, please post. Just to know Canon is working on it would be reassuring (since it doesn't seem to be an anomoly...)

From what I have read in this forum as well is from the info my local tech told me, the "eject" message can be caused by several different problems, not just a tape or transport related issue. I do wish they had designed more specific error trapping, even if it was just an error number displayed on the screen. But my point is that there may not be a single design issue causing this problem.

Another problem I've read about on multiple GL2s is the sticking zoom issue, which apparently they have issued a service bulletin for.

In spite of these problems, I have to say I am looking forward to owning a GL2! I'm going to order one as soon as we get back from a Thanksgiving trip.

Walter,
I have found the GL2 an excellent camera despite my latest hiccup. Now I'm only comparing to my old JVC 1CCD consumer model (may it rest in peace), so how it compares to others in its class I do not know, but I am more than happy with its performance. You would think for 2 grand you could get a camera that didn't break. But every car I've owned has had some inherent flaw from the factory.

As to this latest REW problem, I have some info to add to it. Yesterday, as I was shuttling a tape back and forth to find a logging start point, I noticed a weird sound coming from the camera as I was rewinding at 1x or 2x speed with picture, almost like a high frequency vibration. The picture would blank out temporarily and then came the eject message. I'm beginning to think the tapes are not the issue and something is very wrong inside.

Diane has a good point when I suspected dirty tape heads from using different tapes: Why isn't the picture bad too with normal playback? Looks like I'll be sending it in while I have some downtime.

<<<-- Originally posted by Dirk Mitchell : Walter,
I have found the GL2 an excellent camera despite my latest hiccup.

Good to hear that!

......
Diane has a good point when I suspected dirty tape heads from using different tapes:

why would using different brands of tape cause a problem? Ive read several posts that mention that. Seem to me I should be able to use any high quality name brand tape.

Does anyone has some statistics on GL2 for the tape eject issue? But if it is listed as an FAQ on Canon's support web, I guess it may be at high percentage. What about other GL2 users? If you keep on using only one brand of tapes, do you still get such situation?

Pease add me to the "eject cassettte" list.

After one year of perfect behavior of that camcorder, now has began to show this mesage: "remove cassette" after a loss of time code (--.--.--.--)wile playing rewind function on VCR mode.

After the mesage appears, no action can be made but to eject the cassette and reinsert it again. Now all the funcions work fine except the rewind function on VCR mode.

I've made this test with difernt tape brands and the sane behavior.

Just to add that problems begun after ussing Sony Premiun, and change to JVC professional

Any sudgestion other than send tha cam. to the Canon support service?

Best to all

Ignacio

Ignacio,

Are you getting this problem on a GL2 or an XM2? And did you get it after you used a Sony tape? Or is it that you used Sony tapes and switched to JVC's?

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Artiñano : Pease add me to the "eject cassettte" list.

After one year of perfect behavior of that camcorder, now has began to show this mesage: "remove cassette" after a loss of time code (--.--.--.--)wile playing rewind function on VCR mode.

After the mesage appears, no action can be made but to eject the cassette and reinsert it again. Now all the funcions work fine except the rewind function on VCR mode.

I've made this test with difernt tape brands and the sane behavior.



Well, as this is prety much exactly what happened to my Opturi, I will be able to tell you exactly what the deal is as soon as I hear from Cannon. I was using JVC tapes at the time.

Just three imputs.

My cam is XM2, as you know is the european versionof GL2.

I've beeen using Sony tapes during one year and now switched to JVC and at the first time I used it, the cam. start with the reported error message.

Just for curiosity, how long do you expect to be at Canon for fixing?

Please keep us informed because I'm planing to send it to Canon too.

Many thanks.

Well, no, I didn't know the XM-2 is the European GL2.

I have not sent mine into Canon. I'm waiting for Diane to reply on how hers fared in the shop.

Another thing I have noticed is that mine has to "warm up" before the error occurs. That could mean rewinding a couple of tapes or shuttling a lot while capturing from the camera. When it's really heavily used, I get the error message in seconds of rewinding. I've also noticed that when it occurs, it's in the first 30 minutes of the tape.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Artiñano : Just three imputs.


Just for curiosity, how long do you expect to be at Canon for fixing?

Please keep us informed because I'm planing to send it to Canon too.

My understadning is that their turnaround is around 3 to 4 weeeks. Of course I will post to the forum as I find things out.

Just my experience but... I sent my GL2 to the CA Canon Service Center. Received it back one week later (including shipping time). I'm sure that the degree of dificulty they have isolating the problem can be a mitagating factor but I was sure impressed.

After deciding to send my XM2 to Canon Technical Support, I'll place here a repport af the whole reparation process.

Happy filming.

My GL2 was shipped by a local retailer to Canon over 2 weeks ago. I was told to expect it to be 4-6 weeks. I asked them to label it "Pro-expedite" which they did, but warned me not to expect a faster response. Perhaps posters who received such (incredibly) speedy service have some tips on how to get faster response time. I am also considering calling Canon directly re: the ff/rw issue (it's just a matter of remembering to do it when I have the time) and will post any useful info.

Diane

Finally I sent it on nov. 27th. The expected delay is between 7 and 15 days. Anyway they told me to contact them on mon. or tues. in order to know exactly the FF/RW problem.

Best to all.

So far here is my situation: I dropped off my Opturi at the local dealer on 11/17. I called them this mornng. Canon has my cam and the repair will cost $300. Oddly, this is EXACTLY the maximum amount I authorized them to spend w/o contacting me. I can expect it back 3 to 4 weeks from today. It looks like you get better results if you avoid the dealer and send it in yourself.

I have ordered a new GL2, and I paid $150 for a 4 year extended Cannon warrenty. Based on the above unpleasent experiece (the Opturi was bought in '01) Id say the $150 was worth it.

I'll let you know when I get the beast back.

Hi all.

Just receiving back my XM2 from Canon Technical Dep.

The problem is solved and now again goes FF/RW flawlessly. Total time fron the day I sent it, to final delivery 7 days !!!

Anyway, I think that Canon should have to do something about this issue, because no extra effort has been applied to the camcorder.

The technical report is: "Mechanical Unit has been changed and some mechanical and electical adjustments has been made"

Hope this helps.

Happy filming

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Artiñano : Hi all.

"Just receiving back my XM2 from Canon Technical Dep.

The problem is solved and now again goes FF/RW flawlessly. Total time fron the day I sent it, to final delivery 7 days !!!"

Now I have a thoery that if you deal direct with Canon you get MUCH better service than if you have a dealer do it for you! Im still waiting for my Optura, which I left at a dealer on 11/17!

"The technical report is: "Mechanical Unit has been changed and some mechanical and electical adjustments has been made"

Sheesh, I wonder what that means? If I ever see my Optura again, I'll report here!

Just got MY GL2 back. Haven't even been home to try it out yet, but trust it will work well. Here's what Canon did:

Replaced the "idler" gear (?)
Replaced the drive gear slide
adjusted the tape path

For those who may find it useful, the repair code is: R37258

The retailer who sent my camera in looked up the repair code and translated it for me.

Diane