Smooth Slow motion shots with GL2???

May 1st, 2005, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

Matt, trust me. I know you can do slow mo in FCP, but it is jerky. I have shot three 2 hour features on DV, and 1 on super 16mm. the slow-mo difference is Astounding.

The footage Steve posted looks jerky cause it's super compressed, but if yo uwatch these videos at full res you se ehow good 16mm slow mo is. it's just science... more frames = more information. 60i can only give you 60i of information, no matter how good the interpolation is.

For true slow mo, film is the cheapest way to go.

Don't shoot 35mm, it is a waste of money.

If you really need true slow-mo, shoot a simple 16mm cam, one roll of film (100ft) will cover you about 3 minutes shooting 24fps, 1 minute of superb slowmo.

Click steves first link (street spirit) and watch for 3:48. the glass is a perfect example, you cant do that in dv.

I've done over 400 weddings using my method. Did you look at my footage? Look jerky to you? I make 2 hour feature films every week, two or three of them. Granted, they're wedding videos, but very cinematic and it pays me well over 6 figures a year... I think I know what I'm doing.

I understand completely what you're talking about and agree with you, BUT, we're NOT TALKING ABOUT MAKING A SUPER SLOW MOTION ACTION MOVIE HERE!! Refer to the 'Indiana Jones' post I made above.

May 1st, 2005, 09:12 AM

Oh... my last post was in reference to the FCP slow-mo being 'jerky' by Mr. Nayman. It may sound a little brutal becuase I just woke up and I'm always grumpy in the morning:)

Steve, good luck on your project. Hopefully you find a cost effective way to achieve what you're looking for! As a side note, not that it is better than the 16mm, but most professional DV cams have a 'frame' mode, which captures pristine images frame by frame in video which may help achieve what you're trying to do at a satisfactory level. Just an idea to try out if you already have a high-end DV cam.

Matthew Nayman · May 1st, 2005, 09:12 AM

I don't want this to turn into a personal flame war, but there is a difference between cinematic film making, and wedding videos.

I agree that if there isn't a lot motion, like couples eating wedding cake or kissing, then slwoing footage down to 80 or 70 percent looks fine.

I believe steve has seomthing closer to the Radiohead video in mind. If it has a lot of slow-mo and has to look really good, then you can't argue that film will look better.

Besides, 16mm is higher resolution than DV and better contrast ratio.

Granted this is a DV forum and I own an XL2, GL2 and DVX, so I love DV, but when I shot slow-mo for my DV features, I shot on 16 and digitzed it.

Steve Law · May 1st, 2005, 03:54 PM

what im trying to achieve here is using a dolly to slide the camera from right to left and capture the band playing. one shot, left to right and done. im not sure if that makes sense, or if you understand. but i want it to show this in slow motin, like in the Street Spirit video. it will only take up about 20 seconds real time, and then about a minute for other performance footage that i will splice into the final project. im going to try to get a 16mm for the day since i cant afford to purchase one. thanks for the tips guys.

Kyron Gray · May 15th, 2005, 09:14 AM

I too searched high and low for the fabled minidv slow-mo effect and after many fruitless weeks of people telling me to slow it down in premiere (Slide showsville!) I have come across a little software magic...

Everyone's right, you can't get awesome slow motion from a DV camera, however you can get great slo-mo with a good plugin. I thought I would post my own comments on a nifty piece of software I have tried called realviz retimer. Very similar to Twixtor with astounding results.
It uses a combination of interpolation, frame blending and pixel by pixel matching much like the Wachowski's used to get their bullet time rigs to work so smooth. If you've seen the behind the scenes featurette on the Matrix DVD, you'll remember the green screen shot of Neo doing his famous bend over backwards trick. This is essentially 60 or so STILL cameras placed around him in an arc. This on its own results in a slide show like effect in play back as it jumps from one still to the next. In comes the interpolation software! It literally computer generates all the frames in between to give smooth slo-mo. I gave this example because what happens when you slow down dv footage the normal way? It starts to look like a bunch of still frames, which is why this plugin is so effective!

There is a very good demo video called bike-flip on realviz's site that shows exactly what this plugin can do with dv footage. Watch it and tell me it doesn't look like its shot with a 100fps camera!

http://www.realviz.com/gallery/spec....=5&&product=rt

Of course budget wise, this is a VERY expensive plugin, but so is a high speed camera. Try out the trial version.

Steve Law · May 18th, 2005, 07:34 PM

wow! i thought Twixtor was the only good program out there, this one looks so much better. thanks for letting me know!

Cameron Jeong · May 19th, 2005, 03:38 AM

Isn't it also possible to create good slow motion (half the speed) by shooting interlaced and doing some simple post production effects in most editing programs (eg, Abobe Premiere)??

Because you're getting interlaced footage then technically you're getting 60 frames per second (NTSC) 50 frames per second (PAL).

By creating two identical tracks with the same footage, reducing the speed to 50% and de-interlacing both (the first, Upper and the second Lower), then by switching between the two video tracks every second frame then you get result of smooth slow motion.

I havn't tried this in Adobe Premiere yet (I have done so in Ulead Media Studio), however its quite possible to achieve this same effect, I'll do some tests and see if its possible.

Glenn Thomas · May 20th, 2005, 09:48 AM

I was just about to mention what Cameron has just suggested. In my opinion this is the best way to get a decent slow motion. Well half speed anyway. Your program should be set to interpolate the fields. In Vegas I set the playback rate to 50% and make sure that smart resample or whatever it's called is turned on.

There's also a couple of affordable programs here for creating nice looking slow motion: http://www.goodervideo.com/

Eric Holloway · May 20th, 2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cameron Jeong

By creating two identical tracks with the same footage, reducing the speed to 50% and de-interlacing both (the first, Upper and the second Lower), then by switching between the two video tracks every second frame then you get result of smooth slow motion.

This sounds interesting. What technique do you use to switch between tracks every second frame?

Eric

Kyle Prohaska · June 8th, 2005, 02:34 PM

This was shot with the Canon GL1, cant be much different than with GL2.

Look here: http://whiterabbit.ryan-w.com/

The results are amazing.

Ming Dong · June 8th, 2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Prohaska

The results are amazing.

Yes they are!

But a general question for all, what are the best camera (GL2) settings to use if you plan to use slow-motion in post?

Jose di Cani · August 14th, 2005, 03:49 PM

I bought twixtor...I am talking about the new twixtor pro 4.5 and it is a beautifull program. It will cost you 400 dollars/euros, but I must admit..there is no other program to create slowdowns/slo-motions and other funny modern stuff such as the switch between extyreme speed-ups and suddenly amazing slow-downs. Just download the tutorial and you will see what you can get(you can do similar stuff seen on that clip from that long blond girl from destiny's child and that rapper J something). FOr 400 dollars it is the second best option and it rocks.

YOu only need clear shots (not too much moving around/keep it simple). Lots of contrast between the actor and the background. Result>> profesional slo-motions.

Leonardo Silva Jr. · August 25th, 2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cameron Jeong

Isn't it also possible to create good slow motion (half the speed) by shooting interlaced and doing some simple post production effects in most editing programs (eg, Abobe Premiere)??

Because you're getting interlaced footage then technically you're getting 60 frames per second (NTSC) 50 frames per second (PAL).

By creating two identical tracks with the same footage, reducing the speed to 50% and de-interlacing both (the first, Upper and the second Lower), then by switching between the two video tracks every second frame then you get result of smooth slow motion.

I havn't tried this in Adobe Premiere yet (I have done so in Ulead Media Studio), however its quite possible to achieve this same effect, I'll do some tests and see if its possible.

hello cameron, have you tried this yet with premiere? please tell us te story of how you have done it. thanks.

Cameron Jeong · August 30th, 2005, 07:49 AM

I havn't actually tested this myself, but i found a little tutorial whilst searching the net.

http://www.pvnb.org/Tip_slomo.htm

If someone tries this, let me know how it goes, otherwise I'll further investigate what i suggested earlier.

Jerry Norman · September 8th, 2005, 05:40 AM

I'm interested in this too. I use Vegas and don't see an easy way to do this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Holloway

This sounds interesting. What technique do you use to switch between tracks every second frame?

Eric

May 19th, 2005, 03:38 AM	#22
Cameron Jeong New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6	Isn't it also possible to create good slow motion (half the speed) by shooting interlaced and doing some simple post production effects in most editing programs (eg, Abobe Premiere)?? Because you're getting interlaced footage then technically you're getting 60 frames per second (NTSC) 50 frames per second (PAL). By creating two identical tracks with the same footage, reducing the speed to 50% and de-interlacing both (the first, Upper and the second Lower), then by switching between the two video tracks every second frame then you get result of smooth slow motion. I havn't tried this in Adobe Premiere yet (I have done so in Ulead Media Studio), however its quite possible to achieve this same effect, I'll do some tests and see if its possible. Last edited by Cameron Jeong; May 19th, 2005 at 04:57 AM.

May 1st, 2005, 09:12 AM	#17
Guest Posts: n/a	Oh... my last post was in reference to the FCP slow-mo being 'jerky' by Mr. Nayman. It may sound a little brutal becuase I just woke up and I'm always grumpy in the morning:) Steve, good luck on your project. Hopefully you find a cost effective way to achieve what you're looking for! As a side note, not that it is better than the 16mm, but most professional DV cams have a 'frame' mode, which captures pristine images frame by frame in video which may help achieve what you're trying to do at a satisfactory level. Just an idea to try out if you already have a high-end DV cam.

May 1st, 2005, 09:12 AM	#18
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I don't want this to turn into a personal flame war, but there is a difference between cinematic film making, and wedding videos. I agree that if there isn't a lot motion, like couples eating wedding cake or kissing, then slwoing footage down to 80 or 70 percent looks fine. I believe steve has seomthing closer to the Radiohead video in mind. If it has a lot of slow-mo and has to look really good, then you can't argue that film will look better. Besides, 16mm is higher resolution than DV and better contrast ratio. Granted this is a DV forum and I own an XL2, GL2 and DVX, so I love DV, but when I shot slow-mo for my DV features, I shot on 16 and digitzed it.

May 1st, 2005, 03:54 PM	#19
Steve Law Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 29	what im trying to achieve here is using a dolly to slide the camera from right to left and capture the band playing. one shot, left to right and done. im not sure if that makes sense, or if you understand. but i want it to show this in slow motin, like in the Street Spirit video. it will only take up about 20 seconds real time, and then about a minute for other performance footage that i will splice into the final project. im going to try to get a 16mm for the day since i cant afford to purchase one. thanks for the tips guys.

May 15th, 2005, 09:14 AM	#20
Kyron Gray Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1	I too searched high and low for the fabled minidv slow-mo effect and after many fruitless weeks of people telling me to slow it down in premiere (Slide showsville!) I have come across a little software magic... Everyone's right, you can't get awesome slow motion from a DV camera, however you can get great slo-mo with a good plugin. I thought I would post my own comments on a nifty piece of software I have tried called realviz retimer. Very similar to Twixtor with astounding results. It uses a combination of interpolation, frame blending and pixel by pixel matching much like the Wachowski's used to get their bullet time rigs to work so smooth. If you've seen the behind the scenes featurette on the Matrix DVD, you'll remember the green screen shot of Neo doing his famous bend over backwards trick. This is essentially 60 or so STILL cameras placed around him in an arc. This on its own results in a slide show like effect in play back as it jumps from one still to the next. In comes the interpolation software! It literally computer generates all the frames in between to give smooth slo-mo. I gave this example because what happens when you slow down dv footage the normal way? It starts to look like a bunch of still frames, which is why this plugin is so effective! There is a very good demo video called bike-flip on realviz's site that shows exactly what this plugin can do with dv footage. Watch it and tell me it doesn't look like its shot with a 100fps camera! http://www.realviz.com/gallery/spec....=5&&product=rt Of course budget wise, this is a VERY expensive plugin, but so is a high speed camera. Try out the trial version.

May 18th, 2005, 07:34 PM	#21
Steve Law Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 29	wow! i thought Twixtor was the only good program out there, this one looks so much better. thanks for letting me know!

May 20th, 2005, 09:48 AM	#23
Glenn Thomas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 320	I was just about to mention what Cameron has just suggested. In my opinion this is the best way to get a decent slow motion. Well half speed anyway. Your program should be set to interpolate the fields. In Vegas I set the playback rate to 50% and make sure that smart resample or whatever it's called is turned on. There's also a couple of affordable programs here for creating nice looking slow motion: http://www.goodervideo.com/

June 8th, 2005, 02:34 PM	#25
Kyle Prohaska Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ransomville NY Posts: 239	This was shot with the Canon GL1, cant be much different than with GL2. Look here: http://whiterabbit.ryan-w.com/ The results are amazing.

August 14th, 2005, 03:49 PM	#27
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	I bought twixtor...I am talking about the new twixtor pro 4.5 and it is a beautifull program. It will cost you 400 dollars/euros, but I must admit..there is no other program to create slowdowns/slo-motions and other funny modern stuff such as the switch between extyreme speed-ups and suddenly amazing slow-downs. Just download the tutorial and you will see what you can get(you can do similar stuff seen on that clip from that long blond girl from destiny's child and that rapper J something). FOr 400 dollars it is the second best option and it rocks. YOu only need clear shots (not too much moving around/keep it simple). Lots of contrast between the actor and the background. Result>> profesional slo-motions.

August 30th, 2005, 07:49 AM	#29
Cameron Jeong New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6	I havn't actually tested this myself, but i found a little tutorial whilst searching the net. http://www.pvnb.org/Tip_slomo.htm If someone tries this, let me know how it goes, otherwise I'll further investigate what i suggested earlier.