Link to Canon HG10 Manual at DVinfo.net

Jim Browning · August 27th, 2007, 02:33 PM

The HG10 manual is available on the Canon USA website, and I hadn't seen a link posted, so here it is:

http://downloads.canon.com/cpr/softw...NTSC_E_Web.pdf

I am still torn between the HG10 and the HV20. I go back and forth and back and forth and back... Better overall quality and workflow with the HDV solution vs. Better camera handling and random clip access with AVCHD.

Step-daughter's volleyball season is approaching... Sigh... I'm about ready to flip a coin ;-/ I know I'm 'over-thinking' but I can't stop myself!

Chris Hurd · August 27th, 2007, 02:41 PM

Much appreciated, thanks Jim!

AVCHD can still be a bit of a challenge to edit at this point, if that's any help.

Jim Browning · August 27th, 2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

AVCHD can still be a bit of a challenge to edit at this point, if that's any help.

For folks like me, *any* editing is a challenge! And all this stuff of extracting 24p from 60i, etc. is daunting. But after spending my life addicted to still photography (especially underwater), I want to make a shift to video and do it right. I'm going to have to build a new PC anyway (will double as a Home Theater component to display the edited video, among other things) and so I will have the horsepower, and am intending to use Vegas as my NLE. I know Vegas doesn't like other vendors AVCHD, but am thinking I'll be using CineForm in the middle to handle the 24p stuff, and so I'll be able to do it without -too- much complication?

HG10 or HV20 ===> CineForm ===> Vegas ===> CD/DVD/Etc. ??

Will I be pulling my hair out with this workflow? Does it ameliorate the issues with AVCHD editing? My apologies for hijacking my own thread with these questions.. most of this is spread around in multiple threads.

"Round and round and round he goes, and where he stops, nobody knows..."

Chris Barcellos · August 27th, 2007, 03:13 PM

Jim:

I have the HV20. Using Cineforms NeoHDV to Vegas, using 24p pull down. Editing in Vegas is a snap. When I edit in Vegas using the native .m2t files, Vegas does not preview the files well, even though I run an early AMD dual core machine (3800+). I fought getting Cineform a long time, as the .m2t edited someone easier in Premiere Pro 2.0. However, I am glad I spent the bucks, because I am using Vegas regularly now and getting nice results... Assuming Cineform does the capture thing right with the AVCHD file conversion, I would be tempted to go with the HG10-- except I have seen a satifactory explanation of how well the manual focus will work..

Jim Browning · August 27th, 2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Assuming Cineform does the capture thing right with the AVCHD file conversion, I would be tempted to go with the HG10-- except I have seen a satifactory explanation of how well the manual focus will work..

CineFrom published a technical note saying it will convert AVCHD so long as you have a CODEC (e.g., from Nero or PowerDVD) installed. I'll have to wait to get my hands on one to evaluate the focus... :-/

Luc Fender · August 27th, 2007, 03:47 PM

I would consider the HG10 because it has less motor noise. But if you would use an external mic anyway it would be a moot point.
Also it seems the steadyshot corrects slightly more than the HV20 but if it's visible to the average user don't know yet. Haven't seen that many clips yet.

Otherwise I think the HV20 handling is just fine and I'm sure the HG10 will not beat the HV20 quality and format versatility.

Also I'm sure AVCHD will be supported eventually in about all programs.

Guy Bruner · August 27th, 2007, 04:00 PM

Jim,
Save yourself some grief. I use the Tvix 4100 media player to play back all kinds of HD...including HDV and AVCHD. It will alleviate the need to use a computer as a playback device. At about the cost of a high end video card, it is a cost effective solution for these HD formats. Plus, you can put the Tvix 4100 on a LAN and serve the video files from a network store (your computer's hard drive).

BTW, I have the Canon HV20 and the Panasonic SD1...HDV and AVCHD camcorders, respectfully. The video quality is very similar. I suspect the HG10 will have very similar video quality to the HV20. At least, not enough difference to be discernable without comparing the video side by side.

As far as Vegas goes, it will NOT edit any Canon AVCHD without first transcoding it to an intermediate or HDV. Cineform is certainly an option (expensive at $250), but Lagarith or HUFFYUV codecs are free.

Chris Hurd · August 27th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc Fender

I would consider the HG10 ... it seems the steadyshot corrects slightly more than the HV20.

That is false. In both the Canon HV20 and HG10 camcorders, the OIS mechanisms are identical.

Chris Hurd · August 27th, 2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

I suspect the HG10 will have very similar video quality to the HV20.

See our downloadable video clips which compare the Canon HG10 and HV20 side by side. They are remarkably alike (for example, 24p is identical between both cams). Austin Meyers points out the similarities and subtle differences:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=101059

Guy Bruner · August 27th, 2007, 05:22 PM

Chris,
Yes, I've seen those videos and mine on my 42" LG plasma and they are remarkably alike. As I said, unless you compare them side by side, you are unlikely to notice any difference. And as long as you are satisfied with the display, who cares? For the most part, all HD camcorders are plenty good enough for the discerning consumer.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 27th, 2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

Jim,
Save yourself some grief. I use the Tvix 4100 media player to play back all kinds of HD...including HDV and AVCHD. It will alleviate the need to use a computer as a playback device. At about the cost of a high end video card, it is a cost effective solution for these HD formats. Plus, you can put the Tvix 4100 on a LAN and serve the video files from a network store (your computer's hard drive).

BTW, I have the Canon HV20 and the Panasonic SD1...HDV and AVCHD camcorders, respectfully. The video quality is very similar. I suspect the HG10 will have very similar video quality to the HV20. At least, not enough difference to be discernable without comparing the video side by side.

As far as Vegas goes, it will NOT edit any Canon AVCHD without first transcoding it to an intermediate or HDV. Cineform is certainly an option (expensive at $250), but Lagarith or HUFFYUV codecs are free.

I'm not sure what's up with your system, Guy, but a new machine, new install of Vegas 7, nothing installed other than Photoshop and Vegas 7d, the Canon files open fine for me. I thought I'd posted stills earlier, no?

Ian G. Thompson · August 27th, 2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

I'm not sure what's up with your system, Guy, but a new machine, new install of Vegas 7, nothing installed other than Photoshop and Vegas 7d, the Canon files open fine for me. I thought I'd posted stills earlier, no?

I have the same exact version pf Vegas as you and am unable to open those files. In fact my VLC player keeps crapping out on me when i try to open those files from the HG10. The only thing I was able to view it in properly was Nero Showtime.

Jim Browning · August 27th, 2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

Jim,
Save yourself some grief. I use the Tvix 4100 media player to play back all kinds of HD...including HDV and AVCHD. It will alleviate the need to use a computer as a playback device. At about the cost of a high end video card, it is a cost effective solution for these HD formats. .

My concern with going the proprietary media server route is DRM controlled content that requires specific S/W to access. The most obvious current example is iTunes. Plus I need that high end video card (and the computer to put it in) in so I can edit, since my other computers are very dated at this point. I know there will be grief getting the HTPC sorted out, but there is a group of people over on the AVS forum working on a standardized solution that should save on the grief factor. All my stuff is in a closet, so the looks/noise aren't all as important as they would otherwise be. But I'll look closer at the Tvix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

BTW, I have the Canon HV20 and the Panasonic SD1...HDV and AVCHD camcorders, respectfully. The video quality is very similar.

Great to see results similar to that posted here comparing the HV20 and HG10.

Douglas - I'll look up that post of yours.. I remember reading it. You seem to be the only one who has been able to open non-Sony AVCHD directly into Vegas without prior manipulation.

I'm going to ponder this tonight and see if I can make a decision without a coin toss..

Guy Bruner · August 28th, 2007, 11:14 AM

Spot,
I have two different computers here: a core duo laptop and a quad core desktop. They are running WinXP Home and WinXP Pro, respectfully. Both have Vegas 7e installed. I am scrupulous about maintaining my OS and software configurations. I cannot open either Panasonic or Canon AVCHD files in Vegas on these computers. Numerous other Vegas users are reporting the same issue. I don't know what is different about your computer and software, but it is unique, in my experience. Perhaps you were using some M2TS files that had already been converted to HDV from AVCHD?

Jim,
I can understand your apprehension over playing DRM content. I have yet to try that with my Tvix, but my understanding is that it is possible. You don't need a $300 video card for accelerated playback. The Nvidia 8600GT or GTS cards are just over $100 and do fine as long as you are using Vista.

August 27th, 2007, 02:33 PM	#1
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	Link to Canon HG10 Manual The HG10 manual is available on the Canon USA website, and I hadn't seen a link posted, so here it is: http://downloads.canon.com/cpr/softw...NTSC_E_Web.pdf I am still torn between the HG10 and the HV20. I go back and forth and back and forth and back... Better overall quality and workflow with the HDV solution vs. Better camera handling and random clip access with AVCHD. Step-daughter's volleyball season is approaching... Sigh... I'm about ready to flip a coin ;-/ I know I'm 'over-thinking' but I can't stop myself!

August 27th, 2007, 02:41 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Much appreciated, thanks Jim! AVCHD can still be a bit of a challenge to edit at this point, if that's any help. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 27th, 2007, 03:13 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Jim: I have the HV20. Using Cineforms NeoHDV to Vegas, using 24p pull down. Editing in Vegas is a snap. When I edit in Vegas using the native .m2t files, Vegas does not preview the files well, even though I run an early AMD dual core machine (3800+). I fought getting Cineform a long time, as the .m2t edited someone easier in Premiere Pro 2.0. However, I am glad I spent the bucks, because I am using Vegas regularly now and getting nice results... Assuming Cineform does the capture thing right with the AVCHD file conversion, I would be tempted to go with the HG10-- except I have seen a satifactory explanation of how well the manual focus will work.. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 27th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#6
Luc Fender Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 61	I would consider the HG10 because it has less motor noise. But if you would use an external mic anyway it would be a moot point. Also it seems the steadyshot corrects slightly more than the HV20 but if it's visible to the average user don't know yet. Haven't seen that many clips yet. Otherwise I think the HV20 handling is just fine and I'm sure the HG10 will not beat the HV20 quality and format versatility. Also I'm sure AVCHD will be supported eventually in about all programs.

August 27th, 2007, 04:00 PM	#7
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Jim, Save yourself some grief. I use the Tvix 4100 media player to play back all kinds of HD...including HDV and AVCHD. It will alleviate the need to use a computer as a playback device. At about the cost of a high end video card, it is a cost effective solution for these HD formats. Plus, you can put the Tvix 4100 on a LAN and serve the video files from a network store (your computer's hard drive). BTW, I have the Canon HV20 and the Panasonic SD1...HDV and AVCHD camcorders, respectfully. The video quality is very similar. I suspect the HG10 will have very similar video quality to the HV20. At least, not enough difference to be discernable without comparing the video side by side. As far as Vegas goes, it will NOT edit any Canon AVCHD without first transcoding it to an intermediate or HDV. Cineform is certainly an option (expensive at $250), but Lagarith or HUFFYUV codecs are free.

August 27th, 2007, 05:22 PM	#10
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Chris, Yes, I've seen those videos and mine on my 42" LG plasma and they are remarkably alike. As I said, unless you compare them side by side, you are unlikely to notice any difference. And as long as you are satisfied with the display, who cares? For the most part, all HD camcorders are plenty good enough for the discerning consumer.

August 28th, 2007, 11:14 AM	#14
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Spot, I have two different computers here: a core duo laptop and a quad core desktop. They are running WinXP Home and WinXP Pro, respectfully. Both have Vegas 7e installed. I am scrupulous about maintaining my OS and software configurations. I cannot open either Panasonic or Canon AVCHD files in Vegas on these computers. Numerous other Vegas users are reporting the same issue. I don't know what is different about your computer and software, but it is unique, in my experience. Perhaps you were using some M2TS files that had already been converted to HDV from AVCHD? Jim, I can understand your apprehension over playing DRM content. I have yet to try that with my Tvix, but my understanding is that it is possible. You don't need a $300 video card for accelerated playback. The Nvidia 8600GT or GTS cards are just over $100 and do fine as long as you are using Vista.