Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Thanks, that would be great! I know the HF-G10 will do much better than the 700/900 in low light, but I'd like to see how much the G10 is sacrificing in good light relative to the 700/900.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

it doesn't look to me like it sacrificing anything, and i like the look of G10 @ p30 better that TM series @ p60, to me TM @ p60 looks too videoish, but enough talking :) i will post some videos, it's just too busy at my jobs :)

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Can someone help me out with what this means?

You would normally have to look to professional video cameras in order to have a sophisticated tool like 30p Progressive Mode at your command. In addition to the standard interlaced video frame rate of 60i, you may choose to set the VIXIA HF G10 to capture video in 30p, (30 progressive frames, recorded at 60i) which is particularly useful for footage to be used on the Internet. Excellent for action and sports shots, this setting gives enhanced quality to still images captured after recording

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Jim, I've got the XA10, essentially the same unit as the G10. I fail to understand how 30p could be better at caputring sports and/or fast action than 1080i. As with 24p, that frame rate will introduce a degree of 'stutter' in your motion if you are not careful.

So I don't think it's good advice (from whoever wrote that), to say that 30p is great for action.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

You can't compare 1080i to 30p.

1080 is the resolution and 30 is a frame rate.

You can have 1080i or 1080p, the difference being interlaced or progressive frames.

The reason they say that the 'p' is good for sports is that you get the whole frame in one go, whereas in an interlaced mode, such as 1080i 60, you get one frame split into to fields. This means that fast action sports will have significant motion taking place between the two fields making up one frame and this will then have to be deinterlaced at the cost of quality.

But as you say, a higher frame rate might also be beneficial in sports, so that one might want to shoot 60p if available over 24p or 30p.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Andree, I fully understand the difference between resolution and frame rate. I mentioned 1080i vs 30p & 24p because I thought it was understood that 1080i will generally mean to most people 1920X1080 60i. It is with that understanding I mentioned that rapid motion & sports would be better handled by 1080i (meaning a 60i frame rate) than 24p or 30p. You will not get the fluidity of motion with the slower frame rates. If you've ever seen 60i on an HDTV with a decent deinterlacer, the motion is absuolutely fluid and beautiful. Many sports are broadcast in this format and they are very well done. The issue of the loss of quality is a moot point these days since modern deinterlacers are so good they're visually transparent. I've got a Pioneer Kuro and it is very tough to tell the difference between 60i and 60p on it.

Some people may or may not like 1920X1080 60i (I do), but it will unquestionably be smoother for rapid motion than either 24p or 30p. Obviously 60p will also have the benefit of smoother motion handling.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Ken- I totally agree that 60i is more suitable than 30p for rendering fast motion (sports, etc.)
However, here's another 60i/30p issue that surprised me & I'm wondering what your observations are.
As part of a very detailed review of the HF G10, the reviewers measured recorded color saturation in low light shooting @ different framerates. Their results showed significantly higher recorded color sat in 30p than in 60i. Again, this was strictly low light conditions.
I had never heard of this, so I'm wondering- Is this common knowledge? Unique to this camera? News to the rest of you as well?
Thanks

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Bob, I didn't see that review (can you post a link?), but I guess it doesn't surprise me too much. If you consider the slower frame rates are capturing more light in any given setting, it's not surprising that also yields higher color saturation.

Since I only use 60i, I can't say I've seen that or done any frame-rate A/Bs in low light environments to see the impact on color saturation. The negative impact for me with the lower frame rates (motion) would offset any gain in color saturation. I will tell you though that the XA10's color retention, even with 60i, is the best I've ever seen and nothing that would drive me to look for alternate means of capturing the scene.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Very good to hear your assesment. I really prefer 60i as well.
I'm going to order the XA10 as soon as they become available again.
It should be able to do double duty: be an upgrade from my CX 550 for travel & stealth, and fill in for a bigger pro cam when XLR audio/ wireless, etc. is needed.
This review is quite exhaustive and worth reading in detail- I'm sure you've seen these guys before:
Canon Vixia HF G10 Camcorder Review - CamcorderInfo.com
Thanks

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

To each, their own... 60i or 30p is certainly for everyone to decide for themselves.

I guess it's the whole concept of halving the resolution that doesn't sit well with me.

Sure, with 60i you get twice the fields (not frames), and that does smooth the motion, but you also only get half the amount of vertical lines.

Now, in slow pans or steady shots, the two fields will complement each other well, and overlap enough to make a convincing whole picture, but the "1080" part is more trickery than anything else.

Photographically speaking, the 180 degree shutter and 60 half frames is not enough to lock the frames in or for my peace of mind.

That all being said, since my target is 80% computer anyway (and not a TV set), I'm inclined to shoot progressive.

Well, at least there shouldn't lie any surprise in the fact that image quality wise, on a frame by frame basis, the 'p' will always win.

Enjoy your shooting!

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

This is absolutely not true.
I have produced & edited lots of 1080 HD programming delivered on BD for HDTV from both 1080 30p and 1080 60i source footage, even occasionally mixing the two in the same project. There is no difference in the delivery resolution, either perceptually, or in fact.
To say that 60i results in half the resolution is ridiculous- it would be jaw droppingly obvious to even the most unsophisticated viewer.
I use both framerates- 30p is certainly beautiful and I often use it for more "cinematic" type shooting, but I also shoot action events, sports, etc. where 60i has a very visible advantage in motion rendering.
They are both useful, and both can produce stunning, full resolution HD imagery.
I understand your focus on the fact that each field is an alternating 1/2 of the vertical rez- we all get what interlaced video is- but the fact is, when those alternating horizontal lines are running @ 60fps, the effective resolution is full 1080, and that is exactly what it looks like on the screen.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Andree
I was just reading some of your other posts.
You've got these notions about 30p/60i that have some internal logic, but they are simply not correct regarding motion rendering:

Motion Rendering- fast action/panning
1) 30p/24p If you are shooting fast action/panning with a moderate shutter speed (1/60, 1/50) you can get significant motion blur in each progressive frame. This becomes quite noticable- for example with panning, the entire image can look blurry, then suddenly sharpen when the pan stops.
To avoid this, you can increase the shutter speed, like to 1/250. Now each progressive frame records a sharp image, but now the appearance of the motion is "stuttery" and that is just as noticable & un-natural looking as excessive motion blur.
The film industry (24 fps) has developed tons of shooting rules and techniques to avoid these problems, so it can be done, but you need to learn and follow the rules.
2) 60i At moderate shutter speeds you get some motion blur, but it is spread over two half images (fields) made at different points in time, which has the effect of reducing the perception of the blur by half. So, overall a fast image looks significantly cleaner/sharper than with 30p. With higher shutter speeds each half image (frame) is sharp, but since there are 60 of these sharp renderings per second, the image does not stutter as it does displaying fast motion with only 30 sharp frames per second. It looks smooth.
So, the bottom line, if you are a clever, knowledgable shooter, you can get good action footage with 30p, but it can be tricky. On the other hand, shooting 60i, it's a no-brainer to get good motion rendering- you just point the camera and shoot. So people like me, we like it- we don't have to be clever- we can do it with a hangover on a dark,windy day, one hand in the pocket... And, honestly, there's no real downside.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Hey Bob,

Everything I have said is correct. But perhaps I've been misinterpreted. I also realize you know the difference between 'p' and 'i', so there is no need to go deeper into that.

I didn't say or mean that the net resolution is halved by 60i, but let's look at the facts:

When recording 60i you are getting 60 half resolution fields per second. They can then be intertwined- deinterlaced- into 30 full resolution frames. Or simply viewed, "as is" at half res, at a "fast" refresh rate of 60Hz on a TV screen, alternating so quickly that they appear to be one. But as you say: two half res fields makes a full frame with full resolution.

If we have a stationary camera filming a static scene, there is absolutely no difference between 60i or 30p. But this is a rather unusual scenario.

Once we introduce motion things change. With a moving camera and/or moving subjects, the two half res fields will no longer be able to sync up to a perfect frame. What was captured on the odd lines has now moved when it's time for the even lines.

The changes between even and odd may very well be so minute that it's indiscernible to the eye. But the fact remains, that the only way to get a full frame of 1080p is by recording in a progressive format.

It's for everyone to decide what they prefer. Motion might very well appear smoother on 60i due to the higher refresh rate, but I personally like progressive better. For optimum results 60p would be great, but that would then need an even higher bitrate/second to account for the double amount of frames.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

The assumption made in the Canon manual when recommending 30p for sports is that a still image is the final product.

Re: Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos
 

Are you suggesting that if the final product is a video/film, then the recommendation would be something else?