Semi-Low Light Clip at DVinfo.net

David Jones · January 10th, 2007, 12:57 PM

Here is a quick clip I did (trying to figure out compression).

It was shot in a 3/4 dark room, in Portrait Mode and mounted on a tripod. I don't think this camera is very bad in low light. (No worse than most DV Cams). I think the big thing in low light (like most are saying around here) avoid Full-Auto and it makes a big difference.

http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=3367960

Elmer Lang · January 10th, 2007, 01:38 PM

Nice looking shot, thanks for posting.

I'm trying to figure the best settings for low light, too.

Can I ask, why did you use portrait, and did you change shutter speed? Any suggestions for low light would be appreciated.

thanks again,
elmer

Ron Chau · January 10th, 2007, 03:08 PM

I think one of the problems is everyone has a different view on just what is low light. Your clip looks good, but to me that is not low light.

I also seem to have a low tolerance to noise. In another thread comparing the HV10 to the HC3, I thought the HC3 looked clearly better than the HV10 in low light because of the extra noise in the HV10. Other people felt differently.

David Jones · January 10th, 2007, 04:04 PM

Elmer-I just happened to have left it on Sports (not Portrait as I said in the other post), no thought put into it.

Ron-I agree it's not what most would consider "low light", but I think that's about the darkest I would ever shoot something without lighting it more. I look at the blacks mainly, I thought they were pretty good. This was a spur of the moment clip I capture, while trying to figure out some capture settings.

If someone could describe me an example of "Low Light", I will try to recreate it at different settings. I guess I have always thought if it's dark, light it.

David Jones · January 10th, 2007, 04:32 PM

Here is one a little darker.

http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=5508975

I used the Spotlight Mode for this clip.

Ron Chau · January 10th, 2007, 05:22 PM

I think for me it's an issue of not liking auto mode and noise/grain associated with the gain boost.

Having owned several SD camcorders, as others have stated, HD doesn't perform as well in low light.

Here is a link to the HC3-HV10 comparison I was talking about. It's in German, but you can still download the clips. The 1st set of clips is a good example of how the HV10 is noiser than the HC3. It's an outdoor night shot.

http://www.fxsupport.de/16.html

Don't get me wrong, I like my HV10. It's just a little noisey for me in what I consider low light.

Ken Ross · January 10th, 2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Chau

I think one of the problems is everyone has a different view on just what is low light. Your clip looks good, but to me that is not low light.

Ron, it's very tough to tell how much light there was when someone took a clip in a room we weren't in. If I showed some clips I took with my VX2000, you'd swear I had bright lights on when in fact there was very little light. Kind of like 'you had to be there'. ;)

Ken Ross · January 10th, 2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Chau

I think for me it's an issue of not liking auto mode and noise/grain associated with the gain boost.

Having owned several SD camcorders, as others have stated, HD doesn't perform as well in low light.

Here is a link to the HC3-HV10 comparison I was talking about. It's in German, but you can still download the clips. The 1st set of clips is a good example of how the HV10 is noiser than the HC3. It's an outdoor night shot.

http://www.fxsupport.de/16.html

Don't get me wrong, I like my HV10. It's just a little noisey for me in what I consider low light.

Ron, the problem I have with the Sony cams in low light, regardless of noise, is the fact that they become sooo soft, they no longer look like HD. If I buy an HD cam, I want that HD sharpness retained in less than ideal lighting. The small Sonys don't seem capable of that. In fact I found the HC1 to be sharper in low light than the HC3. The HC3 was just miserably soft in poor light. I guess you pick your poison, but since I'm in HD, I want HD! :)

Bill Busby · January 10th, 2007, 08:39 PM

this flyupload.com has an annoying popup that is right on top of the info for the file that I can't get rid of. How are any of you downloading anything here?

Brad Vaughan · January 10th, 2007, 10:55 PM

Click the "x" in the top right of that annoying pop up. It's hard to see, but it's there.

You can then d/load the file.

Very very annoying indeed!

Bill Busby · January 11th, 2007, 12:17 AM

I did that twice & seems... at least using Firefox anyway... it's not a "close". It acts as if a bogus X & when clicked, it takes me to the annoying site it corresponds to.

I'll try IE & see if it makes a difference.

Thanks

Jason Lee · January 16th, 2007, 01:26 PM

Ron -

The german clips are by far the best low light comparisons between the two that I've seen... they went to quite some effort but, as you say, they are run at different levels of gain, with all else equal.

The HV-10 clip is brighter, there is more color information and *way* more detail, but with that higher level of gain and therefore noise (though, frankly, not as much as I was expecting).

I wonder how they would compare with *everything* equal. Gain without post processing has to introduce noise at such low signal levels and there is nothing to say that the Sony wouldn't be as noisy at the same gain level.

Jason

Mikko Lopponen · January 17th, 2007, 05:03 AM

Even at 18db the hc1 isn't as noisy. But it has lost a lot of resolution (more like vhs) and colors.

The difference to well lit material is hugemongous.

Kallan Smith · January 17th, 2007, 12:47 PM

What are the best manual settings for low light situations?

Also, what type of tripod did you use? Any recommendations?

Thanks!

David Jones · January 17th, 2007, 01:30 PM

I guess everyone can chime in with their styles. But if it's dark, I usually use Shutter Priority starting around 50 and move up or down based on how it looks.

Tripod used: Just a lightweight Slik 504QF, nothing fancy or heavyweight.

January 10th, 2007, 12:57 PM	#1
David Jones New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Farmville, NC Posts: 8	Semi-Low Light Clip Here is a quick clip I did (trying to figure out compression). It was shot in a 3/4 dark room, in Portrait Mode and mounted on a tripod. I don't think this camera is very bad in low light. (No worse than most DV Cams). I think the big thing in low light (like most are saying around here) avoid Full-Auto and it makes a big difference. http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=3367960

January 10th, 2007, 01:38 PM	#2
Elmer Lang Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NY, NY Posts: 319	Nice looking shot, thanks for posting. I'm trying to figure the best settings for low light, too. Can I ask, why did you use portrait, and did you change shutter speed? Any suggestions for low light would be appreciated. thanks again, elmer

January 10th, 2007, 03:08 PM	#3
Ron Chau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: ny, ny Posts: 204	I think one of the problems is everyone has a different view on just what is low light. Your clip looks good, but to me that is not low light. I also seem to have a low tolerance to noise. In another thread comparing the HV10 to the HC3, I thought the HC3 looked clearly better than the HV10 in low light because of the extra noise in the HV10. Other people felt differently.

January 10th, 2007, 04:04 PM	#4
David Jones New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Farmville, NC Posts: 8	Elmer-I just happened to have left it on Sports (not Portrait as I said in the other post), no thought put into it. Ron-I agree it's not what most would consider "low light", but I think that's about the darkest I would ever shoot something without lighting it more. I look at the blacks mainly, I thought they were pretty good. This was a spur of the moment clip I capture, while trying to figure out some capture settings. If someone could describe me an example of "Low Light", I will try to recreate it at different settings. I guess I have always thought if it's dark, light it.

January 10th, 2007, 04:32 PM	#5
David Jones New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Farmville, NC Posts: 8	Here is one a little darker. http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=5508975 I used the Spotlight Mode for this clip.

January 10th, 2007, 05:22 PM	#6
Ron Chau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: ny, ny Posts: 204	I think for me it's an issue of not liking auto mode and noise/grain associated with the gain boost. Having owned several SD camcorders, as others have stated, HD doesn't perform as well in low light. Here is a link to the HC3-HV10 comparison I was talking about. It's in German, but you can still download the clips. The 1st set of clips is a good example of how the HV10 is noiser than the HC3. It's an outdoor night shot. http://www.fxsupport.de/16.html Don't get me wrong, I like my HV10. It's just a little noisey for me in what I consider low light.

January 10th, 2007, 08:39 PM	#9
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	this flyupload.com has an annoying popup that is right on top of the info for the file that I can't get rid of. How are any of you downloading anything here?

January 10th, 2007, 10:55 PM	#10
Brad Vaughan Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Va Beach, Va Posts: 241	Click the "x" in the top right of that annoying pop up. It's hard to see, but it's there. You can then d/load the file. Very very annoying indeed!

January 11th, 2007, 12:17 AM	#11
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	I did that twice & seems... at least using Firefox anyway... it's not a "close". It acts as if a bogus X & when clicked, it takes me to the annoying site it corresponds to. I'll try IE & see if it makes a difference. Thanks

January 16th, 2007, 01:26 PM	#12
Jason Lee Tourist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4	Ron - The german clips are by far the best low light comparisons between the two that I've seen... they went to quite some effort but, as you say, they are run at different levels of gain, with all else equal. The HV-10 clip is brighter, there is more color information and way more detail, but with that higher level of gain and therefore noise (though, frankly, not as much as I was expecting). I wonder how they would compare with everything equal. Gain without post processing has to introduce noise at such low signal levels and there is nothing to say that the Sony wouldn't be as noisy at the same gain level. Jason

January 17th, 2007, 05:03 AM	#13
Mikko Lopponen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 393	Even at 18db the hc1 isn't as noisy. But it has lost a lot of resolution (more like vhs) and colors. The difference to well lit material is hugemongous.

January 17th, 2007, 12:47 PM	#14
Kallan Smith New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Nowhere Posts: 6	What are the best manual settings for low light situations? Also, what type of tripod did you use? Any recommendations? Thanks!

January 17th, 2007, 01:30 PM	#15
David Jones New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Farmville, NC Posts: 8	I guess everyone can chime in with their styles. But if it's dark, I usually use Shutter Priority starting around 50 and move up or down based on how it looks. Tripod used: Just a lightweight Slik 504QF, nothing fancy or heavyweight.