DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/)
-   -   HV20 questions re audio (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/90784-hv20-questions-re-audio.html)

Elmer Lang April 5th, 2007 02:10 PM

HV20 questions re audio
 
I'm considering a purchase of the HV20 and I was curious if there is significant noise picked up by the on-board mic from the motor or when zooming? Is it louder than the HV10? Will an external mic pick it up?

Will most mics fit in the mount?

Will a mic with xlr adaptor be unbalanced or have added noise?

best,
elmer

Thomas Emmerich April 5th, 2007 09:39 PM

HV20 questions re audio
 
I can hear the noise picked up by the built-in mic. The only thing I can compare to is a Panasonic PV-GS250. The HV20 is louder. However, my experience with the HV20 is limited to about 20 minutes of recording so far.

John Godden April 5th, 2007 10:03 PM

"Internal" mikes really suffer on small camcorders. If you want good audio you must use an 'external' mike.

JohnG

Elmer Lang April 5th, 2007 10:27 PM

Yes, external mic is the way to go, but I worry even that will pick up motor noise.

Dennis Vogel April 6th, 2007 08:54 PM

For the best results get your external mic off the cam and close to your subject. The distance from a person's mouth to a mic for the best audio is measured in inches, not feet. This is true for SD, HD and whatever else comes along.

Good luck.

Dennis

Peter J Alessandria April 7th, 2007 08:56 AM

Anyone have any ideas on which Beachtek adapter would work best with the HV20? http://www.beachtek.com/

Roland Gatto April 7th, 2007 09:26 AM

Peter,

Harry at Beachtek said the following:

"We are working with Canon in the US find an appropriate adapter for this
model. It looks like our DXA-2s Compact Adapter will fit this camera the
best."

Harry is really helpful and responds to emails instantly! His email address is beachtek@bellnet.ca

Peter J Alessandria April 7th, 2007 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland Gatto (Post 655731)
Peter,

Harry at Beachtek said the following:

"We are working with Canon in the US find an appropriate adapter for this
model. It looks like our DXA-2s Compact Adapter will fit this camera the
best."

Harry is really helpful and responds to emails instantly! His email address is beachtek@bellnet.ca

Actually got two emails from Harry today (Sat.) He recommends the DXA-2s if you don't need phantom power or

"If you require phantom power, then our DXA-6 adapter would be ideal for the HV20. The DXA-FX adapter is only designed to work with the Sony FX1 or FX7 camcorders." [from Harry's email]

(I asked about an adapter with mic preamps)

Roger Garcia April 8th, 2007 05:18 PM

HV Questions re audio
 
I'm thinking of using my Sennheiser MKE 300 mic on the HV 20. Has anyone tried this combo? Using the MKE 300 on my Sony HVR A1U produced a lot of vibration noise etc and I wonder if it's the same with HV 20?

Thanks.

Elmer Lang April 8th, 2007 05:22 PM

I tried the MKE 300 on an HV20 and it was picking up motor noise and fast zooms.

Roger Garcia April 8th, 2007 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmer Lang (Post 656354)
I tried the MKE 300 on an HV20 and it was picking up motor noise and fast zooms.

Thanks- that's a pity. Looks like I'll have to go with a proper mount and my shotgun then : )

Elmer Lang April 8th, 2007 08:54 PM

Hey Roger, if I was you I'd still try the MKE 300 since you have one and all, your experience might be different than mine! And if it was, you could post your experience.

Chris Barcellos April 8th, 2007 09:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Though I haven't tried it yet, this is what the Beachtech DXA-4 looks like,mounted to the HV20. See photo attached.

Elmer Lang April 8th, 2007 09:36 PM

Hey, Chris, lookin' good!

Will that setup limit you to handheld, maybe it's the angle, but I don't see how you could put it on a tripod? Either way, I look forward to your comments, I've been enjoying your 'Sony User Tries Canon HV20' thread each step of the way!!

best,
elmer

Chris Barcellos April 8th, 2007 09:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Elmer:

The adapters that are made to bolt on to the bottom of a camera, have a have the same thread underneath that is on your camera. See the picture attached. This week sometime I plan to try the rig with my Sennheiser ME66 attached. Biggest issue I see is the potential for mic, due to length, protruding to far into picture frame...

Dale Baglo April 8th, 2007 10:03 PM

The Rode Video Mic is always worth a look too. Compared to my Canon DM-50, it seemed to pick up less motor noise when I tested it with a GL2. It's mono, not stereo (like the DM-50).

Rode mic info can be found here:
http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Pro...oduct=VideoMic

Chris Barcellos April 9th, 2007 11:09 AM

Check out my photos of the HV20 with a mic mounted at the thread here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=90504&page=6

Dennis Vogel April 9th, 2007 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Baglo (Post 656485)
The Rode Video Mic is always worth a look too. Compared to my Canon DM-50, it seemed to pick up less motor noise when I tested it with a GL2.

It should. It has a shock mount.

Good luck.

Dennis

Elmer Lang April 9th, 2007 04:46 PM

On it's webpage it says the Rode Video Mic has "a switchable high pass filter to reduce unwanted low frequency rumble".

Is that the frequency zone we're talking about, or another?

Would a hypercardioid mic do a better job?

best
elmer

Elmer Lang April 12th, 2007 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos (Post 656480)
Elmer:
This week sometime I plan to try the rig with my Sennheiser ME66 attached. Biggest issue I see is the potential for mic, due to length, protruding to far into picture frame...

Hey Chris,

I was hoping you were going to post your impressions of the HV20 with ME66 attached, or other mic.

best,
elmer

Chris Barcellos April 12th, 2007 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmer Lang (Post 658947)
Hey Chris,

I was hoping you were going to post your impressions of the HV20 with ME66 attached, or other mic.

best,
elmer


I just ran one short test, actually in automode. I'll see if I can post some sound track...

Chris Barcellos April 12th, 2007 02:27 PM

Mic Testing Camera v. ME66
 
As requested here are two wave files with the camera mic and the ME 66, in a room. File names explain which is which. These are waves rendered off a captured hdv time line, in Premiere Pro 2.0



http://www.makeyourfilm.net/mictestME66.wav

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/mictestcameramic.wav

Elmer Lang April 12th, 2007 03:26 PM

Great to hear! Thanks, Chris, for posting both wav files!!

My impression was that they both were picking up motor noise.

According to my sound meter in FCP, the ME66 audio, when you weren't talking, was about -33dB, the HV20's mic about -30dB. The HV10 on-cam mic registers -36dB.

What are your impressions? Was the ME66's audio levels/noise 'pickup' different from your experience with other cameras/recorders?

Thanks again, Chris, you've been great and I appreciate it!

best,
elmer

Rob Katz April 12th, 2007 03:34 PM

hv20 and ext mics
 
chris-

nice job posting some audio samples.

to my tired ole ears the me66 sounded much cleaner though there clearly was some sound bouncing around in the room. can u please describe how the recording was made? hv20 on a tripod? u standing approx how many feet in front of the mic? room conditions (room was a bit bright)

would u think about passing the audio signal thru an external field pre (mixpre) so u could control the imput in ways the audiio controls of the hv20 do not allow?

i ask the above because of the hv20's very low profile, i'm thinking of using it on some talking head interviews with folks who may feel overwhelmed by a bigger rig---even one the size of the diminutive a1. if i thought i could control the sound inputs i would seriously consider using/buying the hv20 for this shoot.

any thoughts u could offer would be greatly appreciated.

again, thanks for posting.

be well

rob

Chris Barcellos April 12th, 2007 05:41 PM

Elmer and Rob:

The room was our family room, hard wood floors, 10 foot ceiling, joining to kitchen. Definitely a bright, noisy, echoing room. I was about 4 to 5 feet from camera mounted on a tripod. I was using DXA-4 (I always get this backward, so could be DX4-A) adapter from Beachtek. Dials were set a about 4 or 5 right and left, with switch set at mono, since ME66 is mono. I think I posted picuture of how it was mounted on camera earlier in this thread. The mic is has XLR cord to the adapter, but I noted the other day that it was making a bit of noise on movement.

I'm thinking I could have put camera sound into manual, and adjusted things better. I'm not sure if that would help camera sound. I have a sock on the mic I put on myself, and it is by no means technically correct. It a piece of foam with cloth over it. Use it to hoping to take some of the brightness out, but that is probably not the right thing to do...


I may try some some testing in a carpeted room to see if any difference occurs. I will post the sound clip this evening, I hope.

I do thin think this camera is workable to provide a low profile shoot like you are talking about, Rob.

Chris Barcellos April 12th, 2007 11:02 PM

This sound test has three different tests in the same smaller room, with carpeting, but 10 ft ceilings.

I describe each test, but includes Me66 on camera, camera mic only, and ME66 mounted off camera:

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/newsoundtest.wav

Elmer Lang April 13th, 2007 01:15 AM

Chris

Excellent report! You had really good levels with your DXA-4, and the ME66 was sweet.

It was interesting the difference on my FCP's levels. The ME66, in silence, registered about -42 (-33dB, 1st test). But you still had excellent levels when you spoke.

When removed from the camera it registered the same really, maybe sliiiightly lower.

I think I heard motor noise, but it was very faint.

Surprising was that the HV20's audio, in silence, was also lower, about -36dB in silence (-30dB, 1st test). Odd.

Thanks again!

best,
elmer

Pieter Jongerius April 13th, 2007 02:51 PM

Chris, others,
thanks, makes for some excellent reading & listening...
There is another test I am planning on doing (when I get my hv20, which may take some weeks still): measuring the noise the camera records when there is NO mic active (not even internal), and with automatic gain control off. So we get an idea of the quality of the in-cam analog components used before the AD conversion. Could one trick the camera into disabling the on board mic by plugging in some unattached cable?

Chris Barcellos April 13th, 2007 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieter Jongerius (Post 659713)
Chris, others,
thanks, makes for some excellent reading & listening...
There is another test I am planning on doing (when I get my hv20, which may take some weeks still): measuring the noise the camera records when there is NO mic active (not even internal), and with automatic gain control off. So we get an idea of the quality of the in-cam analog components used before the AD conversion. Could one trick the camera into disabling the on board mic by plugging in some unattached cable?

That should work. I know it worked that way when I had my Beachtek attached in a rush out the door to a kids concert, and didn't bring ear phone, and started recording. The Beachtek was still plugged in, but no mic atached. Had a nice sillent track.

Alex Moskvin May 2nd, 2007 06:13 AM

please recommend
 
looking for a external mic around $200 - $300 for HV 20. Objective, to record female opera singer with big voice accompanied with piano. Need a 'warm' mic to avoid harsh reproduction esp. at the top. mic has to be placed out of view perhaps 5' - 8' away.

What other equipment do I need to make it work. Also want to avoid post production editing other copying onto dvd's.

Thanks.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:21 PM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2025 The Digital Video Information Network