24p vs 25p, which one is more filmic? at DVinfo.net

Ian Lim · May 2nd, 2007, 09:04 PM

Which one is more filmic: 24p or 25p? I live in Asia and will getting a Canon HV20 and it's (of course) going to be PAL version. Should I order NTSC version (24p) or is it ok with the PAL(25p)? Again, sorry for the dumb question =)

Toenis Liivamaegi · May 3rd, 2007, 02:20 AM

PAL is fine. As long as your distribution will be TV channels or DVD or digital projection you will be saving big bucks or time when not shooting in format that your native distribution channels don`t support by default. I live in Europe and any low budget project is done done in 25P rather than 24P even real 16mm and 35mm film projects are done in 25P for distribution`s sake. And if power outlets in your region are putting out 50hz power (and not 60hz like in NTSC land) you wont get that fluorescent flicker too.

Regs,
T

Denis Malyavin · May 3rd, 2007, 02:30 AM

I record in 25p and then slow it down to 24p in Vegas (if I need 24p footage), the great thing is that in HD there is no need to change resolutions anymore, so its the same data just being played back a tad (4.1666 %) slower.

Chris Hurd · May 3rd, 2007, 06:39 AM

The human eye can't detect a difference between 24 and 25 frames per second. So it's not a question of which is more "filmic." Instead, it's really a question of workflow.

Javier Gallen · May 3rd, 2007, 07:23 AM

I agree with you. In fact, it's only noticeable if you switch between the original 25p and the slowed 24p, because of the audio tone shift (that could be fixed with a tonal correction filter).

That's what happen with all PAL DVD's, and even only a few have a tonal correction process, so... it's barely noticeable.

Chris Hurd · May 3rd, 2007, 07:41 AM

Right... take away the audio so it's visual only, and you can't tell the difference.

Enrico Sasso · May 3rd, 2007, 07:54 AM

The very big issue to consider for my point of view, apart of some technical things as difference between PAL and NTSC types of HV20, is also the price you can buy it.

Consider that in US, you can buy HV20 at a equivalent cost of 650 Euro and in Japan also at less than 600 Euro, while in Europe you have to spend about a double price, so 1200 Euro.
Take chance to buy HV20 in US or Japan, during travel for business or vacation can be an interesting money saving.

What do you think to use a NTSC type in Europe, recording at 50 Hz AC network and playback to a multistandard HDTV ?

Javier Gallen · May 3rd, 2007, 08:03 AM

I agree with you. In fact, it's only noticeable if you switch between the original 25p and the slowed 24p, because of the audio tone shift (that could be fixed with a tonal correction filter).

That's what happen with all PAL DVD's, and even only a few have a tonal correction process, so... it's barely noticeable.

Denis Malyavin · May 3rd, 2007, 09:08 AM

Good thing in Vegas they have automatic pitch correction :)

D.

Wes Vasher · May 3rd, 2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enrico Sasso

Consider that in US, you can buy HV20 at a equivalent cost of 650 Euro and in Japan also at less than 600 Euro, while in Europe you have to spend about a double price, so 1200 Euro.

Dang! You could buy a plane ticket, fly over here and get it and go home and still spend less than in Europe, why the high price?

Peter J Alessandria · May 3rd, 2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis Malyavin

Good thing in Vegas they have automatic pitch correction :)
D.

Yooooooooooouuuuuuu'rrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeee rrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiigggggggggghhhhhttttttttt....Ddddddeeeennnnnnnnniiiiisssss.

Enea Lanzarone · May 3rd, 2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enrico Sasso

Consider that in US, you can buy HV20 at a equivalent cost of 650 Euro and in Japan also at less than 600 Euro, while in Europe you have to spend about a double price, so 1200 Euro.

Well, I guess it highly depends on where you're located. In Germany you can get it for 920 EUR (lowest price). I ordered mine in my country (Switzerland) for 1400 Swiss Francs (CHF)...thats 850 EUR or 1150 USD.

Arvid Kraght · May 3rd, 2007, 03:07 PM

In Holland around the 850 and 950 euro. but the hv20 isn't still available:-(

Enrico Sasso · May 4th, 2007, 08:00 AM

I checked about the best price here in North Italy, now 950 Euro, PAL type of course.
Comparing to best price in Tokyo for NTSC, now less than 600 Euro, means
still a difference 350 Euro.

Wes,
I don't know reason of our Europe high price. May be it's only the 1,36 value between US Dollar and Euro ?
For me isn't a big problem to buy it in Tokyo without any plane ticket to buy, only doubts I have is to use an NTSC type with our PAL standard ( not for playback at least, I have a multistandard HDTV, but for some other tech. points like Toenis mentioned i.e. fluorescent flicker )
Have you some other tech. issues can convince me to spend 350 Euro more for a PAL type ?

Javier Gallen · May 4th, 2007, 08:43 AM

The best thing of the PAL version is the 25p mode, wich works without any pulldown process.

May 2nd, 2007, 09:04 PM	#1
Ian Lim Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 178	24p vs 25p, which one is more filmic? Which one is more filmic: 24p or 25p? I live in Asia and will getting a Canon HV20 and it's (of course) going to be PAL version. Should I order NTSC version (24p) or is it ok with the PAL(25p)? Again, sorry for the dumb question =)

May 3rd, 2007, 06:39 AM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	The human eye can't detect a difference between 24 and 25 frames per second. So it's not a question of which is more "filmic." Instead, it's really a question of workflow. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 3rd, 2007, 07:41 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Right... take away the audio so it's visual only, and you can't tell the difference. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

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May 3rd, 2007, 02:20 AM	#2
Toenis Liivamaegi Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 579	PAL is fine. As long as your distribution will be TV channels or DVD or digital projection you will be saving big bucks or time when not shooting in format that your native distribution channels don`t support by default. I live in Europe and any low budget project is done done in 25P rather than 24P even real 16mm and 35mm film projects are done in 25P for distribution`s sake. And if power outlets in your region are putting out 50hz power (and not 60hz like in NTSC land) you wont get that fluorescent flicker too. Regs, T

May 3rd, 2007, 02:30 AM	#3
Denis Malyavin Tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Geneva, Switzerland Posts: 4	I record in 25p and then slow it down to 24p in Vegas (if I need 24p footage), the great thing is that in HD there is no need to change resolutions anymore, so its the same data just being played back a tad (4.1666 %) slower.

May 3rd, 2007, 07:23 AM	#5
Javier Gallen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 67	I agree with you. In fact, it's only noticeable if you switch between the original 25p and the slowed 24p, because of the audio tone shift (that could be fixed with a tonal correction filter). That's what happen with all PAL DVD's, and even only a few have a tonal correction process, so... it's barely noticeable.

May 3rd, 2007, 07:54 AM	#7
Enrico Sasso Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milano - Italy Posts: 25	The very big issue to consider for my point of view, apart of some technical things as difference between PAL and NTSC types of HV20, is also the price you can buy it. Consider that in US, you can buy HV20 at a equivalent cost of 650 Euro and in Japan also at less than 600 Euro, while in Europe you have to spend about a double price, so 1200 Euro. Take chance to buy HV20 in US or Japan, during travel for business or vacation can be an interesting money saving. What do you think to use a NTSC type in Europe, recording at 50 Hz AC network and playback to a multistandard HDTV ?

May 3rd, 2007, 08:03 AM	#8
Javier Gallen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 67	I agree with you. In fact, it's only noticeable if you switch between the original 25p and the slowed 24p, because of the audio tone shift (that could be fixed with a tonal correction filter). That's what happen with all PAL DVD's, and even only a few have a tonal correction process, so... it's barely noticeable.

May 3rd, 2007, 09:08 AM	#9
Denis Malyavin Tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Geneva, Switzerland Posts: 4	Good thing in Vegas they have automatic pitch correction :) D.

May 3rd, 2007, 03:07 PM	#13
Arvid Kraght New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Holland Posts: 8	In Holland around the 850 and 950 euro. but the hv20 isn't still available:-(

May 4th, 2007, 08:00 AM	#14
Enrico Sasso Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milano - Italy Posts: 25	I checked about the best price here in North Italy, now 950 Euro, PAL type of course. Comparing to best price in Tokyo for NTSC, now less than 600 Euro, means still a difference 350 Euro. Wes, I don't know reason of our Europe high price. May be it's only the 1,36 value between US Dollar and Euro ? For me isn't a big problem to buy it in Tokyo without any plane ticket to buy, only doubts I have is to use an NTSC type with our PAL standard ( not for playback at least, I have a multistandard HDTV, but for some other tech. points like Toenis mentioned i.e. fluorescent flicker ) Have you some other tech. issues can convince me to spend 350 Euro more for a PAL type ?

May 4th, 2007, 08:43 AM	#15
Javier Gallen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 67	The best thing of the PAL version is the 25p mode, wich works without any pulldown process.