HV20: to CINE MODE or not

[Ian G. Thompson]

Originally Posted by Nathan Shane

Okay everyone, you asked for a photo showing the differences between the sharpness settings on the Canon HV20. It's actually a .BMP image at about 3.7MB, but when uploaded to Flickr, they turn it into a .JPG image...which actually hasn't lost any of the quality, so you are still able to see the sharpness differences.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1233/...4dff12e5_o.jpg

For those that would still like to see the original .BMP image, you can find that here:

http://vettaville.com/images/canon%2...%20capture.bmp

Well....I'll be a monkeys unc.... that settles that!!!!


Now my question is...is this in the Cinemode setting?

[Nathan Shane]

Originally Posted by Ian G. Thompson

Well....I'll be a monkeys unc.... that settles that!!!! Now my question is...is this in the Cinemode setting?

Yes Ian, that is in CineMode. :o) But it also makes me think that it might be good to stick with a setting of 0 when in CineMode and just sharpen in post, which would give you far more control than doing it in-camera. As I said previously before posting the pics, it's a very subtle difference in sharpness, but you can actually see it in the LCD if you really pay extremely close attention as you step through each of the sharpness settings, but you do have to really look for it on the LCD, and it's all subject to something that will really let you see the subtle changes. Granted, having a nice large captured image makes it much more easier to see the differences than the LCD.

[John Hotze]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

John:

How did you mic it ?

I put a dynamic seinheuser (don't know the model but it cost around $125 from the Guitar Center) mic on a stand about 2 to 3 feet in front of the speaker platform and ran a cable to my XLR Pro and into the external mic input. I would say the mic was about 8 to 10 feet off the ground. During the afternoon heat, I setup right under the speaker farm and shot from about 10 foot to the side and 5 foot in front of the stage. I rigged three 25' cables together and ran them over and up the isle to my sixth row isle seat. Their was a 6" PCV pipe cut in half that ran up to the sound guy with the snake under it. I just ran my cable under this pipe and pulled it out by my seat. This is outdoors and on the first day eveyone sets up their chair or chairs and leave them for the whole time they are there. I was at this festival for 8 days. I sat in my chair and taped in the late afternoon and at night. When I taped from under the speaker farm, I just plugged the first cable from the mic to my XLR Pro. I'll post some links. Right now I only have a few clips posted and I think the ones I shot at the stage may have been before I setup the external mic. I'm guessing this because it seems like I hear a little bit more audience than I heard on other tapes. The first one below, I shot right near where I was camped and setup my mixer and a couple mics to tape a family jam. It was one of my first tapings and it was in TV mode. I'm not sure if I chose the best output for my website or not. I'm seeing a little distortion on my LCD display at work but I went to another computer with a standard CRT monitor and it looked fine. I captured, edited, and rendered these with Pinnacle 10.7. I'm not a pro. This is just a hobby connected with my passion for this music.

http://www.johnhartford.org/video/be...ldJoeClark.wmv

http://www.johnhartford.org/video/be...idge-Part3.wmv

http://www.johnhartford.org/video/be...cial-Part3.wmv

PS - My software doesn't have color wheels so I'm not sure if I can do the kind of post tweaking that I see people say needs to be done with Cine recordings. If I upgrade to a more sophisticated RLE, I may experiment a little but for now I'll go with how it comes from the tape.

[Johan Bunis]

I would use Cinemode all the time if it was possible to use 120-250shutter speed.. Canon, uhää why did you crush the possibility =(

[Steve MacDonald]

Wow! What a cool forum. I'm a proud owner of a HV20 and have followed this thread from the get. First, I'd like to thank everyone for posting their experiences with this camera as it has saved me many hours of figuring all this out. I had this thought that perhaps many of you more expert users of the HV20 might consider producing an E-book, a professional users guide for this camera? Just a thought, I for one would buy it.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by John Hotze

I put a dynamic seinheuser (don't know the model but it cost around $125 from the Guitar Center) mic on a stand about 2 to 3 feet in front of the speaker platform and ran a cable to my XLR Pro and into the external mic input.....

John:

I just previewed the first one. My DSL is hanging a bit here today, but I'll download all later. Thanks for posting them. I saw the first one, and it was very nice and the sound was great.

My brother and his wife are long time musicians and are heavy into the blue grass scene here in California. The go to two big events a year, both at Strawberry Lake in the Sierras, one on Memorial Day weekend, the other on Labor Day.

I am amazed at how this camera can do so much.

In a 48 Hour Film shoot I was in this weekend, we shoot with my Sennheiser ME66 run through a field mixer. This first time I used a field mixer on anything. It was great to be able to level the camera using the generated tone, and the result was consistent and clean sound-- at least as good as you can get it in a 48 Hour film festival setting....

[Nathan Shane]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

It was great to be able to level the camera using the generated tone, and the result was consistent and clean sound-- at least as good as you can get it in a 48 Hour film festival setting....

Chris...do you recall what dB level the generated tone was at? And how were you able to level the camera since it only shows a couple different dB settings in the LCD?

[Daniel Moreno]

Originally Posted by John Hotze

PS - My software doesn't have color wheels so I'm not sure if I can do the kind of post tweaking that I see people say needs to be done with Cine recordings. If I upgrade to a more sophisticated RLE, I may experiment a little but for now I'll go with how it comes from the tape.

You still can tweak your footage with basic edition software, try the contrast, sharpness, color settings to give more "punch" to the image. You can also try subtle changes in the "hue" setting to make the image warmer or colder.

[Bruno Donnet]

Originally Posted by Nathan Shane

Okay everyone, you asked for a photo showing the differences between the sharpness settings on the Canon HV20. It's actually a .BMP image at about 3.7MB, but when uploaded to Flickr, they turn it into a .JPG image...which actually hasn't lost any of the quality, so you are still able to see the sharpness differences.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1233/...4dff12e5_o.jpg

For those that would still like to see the original .BMP image, you can find that here:

http://vettaville.com/images/canon%2...%20capture.bmp

Many thanks, Nathan, for the comparison of the sharpness setting in Cinemode.

So, I presume that, spite some users' posts saying the contrary, the color, Brigthness and contrast adjustments are appliable on the Cinemode too.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Nathan Shane

Chris...do you recall what dB level the generated tone was at? And how were you able to level the camera since it only shows a couple different dB settings in the LCD?

The tone generated was a 1 KB tone, if I recall, and we ran it to 12 on the DB meter on the camera. We saw the film tonight at the theater, and we certainly had it right because the sound was a lot better than most of the productions.

[Peter J Alessandria]

Originally Posted by Bruno Donnet

So, I presume that, spite some users' posts saying the contrary, the color, Brigthness and contrast adjustments are appliable on the Cinemode too.

I actually just shot a full tape using CineMode outdoors in bright daylight. I had hesitated before b/c I was concerned I'd end up with shutter speeds of 1/100th or more. But even in the brightest conditions, the SS held at 1/48th. I think the SS drift will be more likely at the low end but I know I can check my my SS and apeture and then lock EXP.

As to the quote above, yes Bruno, you can use the Custom settings while in CineMode. I'm shooting color depth +1, contrast +1, sharpness +1, brightness 0. No blown highlights, good sharpness and better contrast. I had been shooting Tv mode with color depth +1, sharpness 0, and contrast and brightness -1 but I was still getting some blown highlights and little too much contrast for my tastes. (I always shoot in 24p BTW). So I'm happy CineMode seems to stick to 1/48th as much as it does. I'll probably be using it exclusively now.

[John Hotze]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

John:

I just previewed the first one. My DSL is hanging a bit here today, but I'll download all later. Thanks for posting them. I saw the first one, and it was very nice and the sound was great.

My brother and his wife are long time musicians and are heavy into the blue grass scene here in California. The go to two big events a year, both at Strawberry Lake in the Sierras, one on Memorial Day weekend, the other on Labor Day.

I am amazed at how this camera can do so much.

In a 48 Hour Film shoot I was in this weekend, we shoot with my Sennheiser ME66 run through a field mixer. This first time I used a field mixer on anything. It was great to be able to level the camera using the generated tone, and the result was consistent and clean sound-- at least as good as you can get it in a 48 Hour film festival setting....

Boy Chris, I wish I had your expertise along with a few others here in this and the HV20 forum. I have many years computer experience, about 2 years video camera experience, and a year or so monkeying with improving sound capture while shooting video. I'd like to go to a festival and know exactly what to do to capture the best audio and video with what I have and not need to wing it like I usually do. Example: I had no idea when I setup the mics for the camp jam where to position them and if they were to close together whether that would be a problem. I have a $100 headset and I would either plug into the mixer or the camera and move the mics around and adjust the mixer till I felt I was getting a decent sound. This doesn't seem to be a very professional way of doing things. I noticed that I can't seem to rely on what I hear when plugging th headset into the camera for monitoring. It usually records a lot better quaility than what I hear this way. It seems like I get a much better feel for the audio when I listen to the output from the mixer (not the master out) but I'm not sure. I also wasn't sure how for I needed to place the mic in front of the stage speaker farm. It was so loud that it actually hurt my ears to be near the farm and even sound distorted at times but the mic seemed to pick it up OK. I'll post some samples soon of some stage performances I know for sure came from the mic near the speakers.

[Fergus Anderson]

Originally Posted by Peter J Alessandria

I actually just shot a full tape using CineMode outdoors in bright daylight. I had hesitated before b/c I was concerned I'd end up with shutter speeds of 1/100th or more. But even in the brightest conditions, the SS held at 1/48th. I think the SS drift will be more likely at the low end but I know I can check my my SS and apeture and then lock EXP.

As to the quote above, yes Bruno, you can use the Custom settings while in CineMode. I'm shooting color depth +1, contrast +1, sharpness +1, brightness 0. No blown highlights, good sharpness and better contrast. I had been shooting Tv mode with color depth +1, sharpness 0, and contrast and brightness -1 but I was still getting some blown highlights and little too much contrast for my tastes. (I always shoot in 24p BTW). So I'm happy CineMode seems to stick to 1/48th as much as it does. I'll probably be using it exclusively now.

Peter Im pretty much in the same boat as you, although -1 for contrast and brightness helps in TV mode I still think cine is the way to go and like you said by upping the contrast in cine you gain some contrast without blowing the highlights. It sharpens well in post so Im happy :)

[Bruno Donnet]

Originally Posted by Peter J Alessandria

As to the quote above, yes Bruno, you can use the Custom settings while in CineMode. I'm shooting color depth +1, contrast +1, sharpness +1, brightness 0. No blown highlights, good sharpness and better contrast. I had been shooting Tv mode with color depth +1, sharpness 0, and contrast and brightness -1 but I was still getting some blown highlights and little too much contrast for my tastes. (I always shoot in 24p BTW). So I'm happy CineMode seems to stick to 1/48th as much as it does. I'll probably be using it exclusively now.

Thanks for your answer.

But I presume that the fact the HV20 sticks to 1/48th even in Cinemode have more to do with the the selection of the 24p mode. I just say that because people can confuse your remark: Cinemode changes the averall look (gamma, contrast,...) to mimic the film color look, but the 1/48th comes from your choice of 24p.

Personnally, I've planned to use the Cinemode in normal interlaced mode.

[Peter J Alessandria]

Originally Posted by Bruno Donnet

Personnally, I've planned to use the Cinemode in normal interlaced mode.

Gotcha. But I can't answer that question since I've never put my camera in 60i. I'd guess you'd be around 1/60th, maybe someone else can address that.