Canon Reveals Their Next Pro Video Cam

Michael Galvan · January 16th, 2010, 03:12 PM

For some people, I guess it'll never be enough.

Oh well... I look forward to see what Canon will be bringing to the table.

Brian Drysdale · January 16th, 2010, 03:29 PM

No doubt there is a market for a 35mm sized sensor video camera, it's entirely another matter if all the people will be satisfied with the cost of such a camera, which would be higher that the current DSLR cameras.

With video cameras and I suspect with stills cameras, the smaller the sensor the bigger the market.

Jonathan Shaw · January 17th, 2010, 10:31 PM

Oh well looks like EX1 R sales are gonna go up, 25 mbps AVCHD..... nothing mind bending after all this time, how long ago was it that Canon released the XLH1..... 5 years ago! In that time Sony have come from Z1, Z7, EX1, Z5, EX3, EX1r, plus the nxcam or whatever the new one is.....

Chris Hurd · January 17th, 2010, 10:40 PM

Well to be fair, in the same amount of time Canon has gone through the XL H1A, XL H1S, XH A1S and XHG1S... for a total of seven cameras (three XL H models and four XH models) from Sep. 2005 to Nov. 2008, so it's not like they haven't been doing anything.

Robert M Wright · January 17th, 2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Shaw

Oh well looks like EX1 R sales are gonna go up, 25 mbps AVCHD...

Full bore 24Mbps AVCHD compression image quality and 35Mbps XDCAM EX compression image quality are really quite comparable.

Jonathan Shaw · January 17th, 2010, 11:15 PM

Okay, I was probably a little unfair but the A1/G1/A1s/G1s are all pretty similar... but yes I'm sure they have been busy, I can't imagine the whole Canon R&D team just flogging facebook day in day out ; )

Jim Martin · January 18th, 2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Shaw

Oh well looks like EX1 R sales are gonna go up, 25 mbps AVCHD..... nothing mind bending after all this time, how long ago was it that Canon released the XLH1..... 5 years ago! In that time Sony have come from Z1, Z7, EX1, Z5, EX3, EX1r, plus the nxcam or whatever the new one is.....

Jonathan-

It could be noted with Sony....they tend to have somewhat of a shotgun approach to cameras.....they put many out and "see what sticks". I remember 2 years ago, walking by the Sony booth at NAB and seeing the EX-3.....3 months after the EX-1 came out! I knew there was going to be a few EX-1 owners that would not be happy.

Jim Martin
FilmTools

Tim Polster · January 18th, 2010, 12:55 PM

I can agree with Jonathan's sentiment though. I really appreciate what Sony did with the EX-1/3. They are the only maker who put 1/2" imagers in their cameras and full raster at that.

The onslaught of 1/3" imaging chip cameras seems like it will never end.

From my point of view, if JVC or Canon would embrace 1/2" chips they could differentiate their cameras from the 1/3" sea of offerings. But I know it is a technical hurdle as well.

Robert Sanders · January 18th, 2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

As pointed out elsewhere, Red's sold something on the order of 7,000 Red Ones, in the nearly two and a half years it's been on the market. So that's 7,000 in 29 months, or a round figure of maybe 250 per month.

To put that in perspective, according to Genyosha's Japan Camera Trade News... when Canon introduced the EOS 50D, they targeted production at 100,000 units. PER MONTH. The Nikon D90 was targeted to sell 120,000 units per month.

The little PowerShot A1000 -- 300,000 units per month. The Casio Exilim EX-Z300? 300,000 units per month.

Video is a tiny, tiny market compared to stills. And professional video is a tiny tiny subset of the video market. So yeah, having video on a stills camera makes it more flexible, but you shouldn't go thinking that it's any big priority or it's opening up vast new markets. And yes, we are all clamoring for a large-sensor professional video camera, but ... we are not the tail that wags that dog!

Wow. Those are eye opening numbers Barry. Thank you.

Now I don't feel so bad about my 7D purchase. I was afraid that Canon would release the actual camera I really wanted and I'd have to explain why I want to buy yet another camera.

Jim Martin · January 18th, 2010, 05:32 PM

But Robert, you are so ..er....pursuasive (sp)......

Jim

Robert M Wright · January 18th, 2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

The onslaught of 1/3" imaging chip cameras seems like it will never end.

I bet the soon to be only four models of 3-1/3" imaging chip prosumer AVCHD camcorders (assuming Canon's actually is - which isn't really confirmed yet) will pretty much dominate the marketplace in a fairly short time. I'll be surprised if sales of new HDV camcorders don't start dropping off quite fast now. Of course, Sony will probably have something like an NX7U (w/interchangeable lens) shipping in just a few months, making it five models, and of course Canon will presumably have an XL version of their new cam out in the near future too.

David Heath · January 18th, 2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

Full bore 24Mbps AVCHD compression image quality and 35Mbps XDCAM EX compression image quality are really quite comparable.

They COULD be, but it's not necessarily so. Defining the codec and data rate only defines the bitstream and how to decode the signal - it doesn't define the coder. And all coders are far from equal, all manufacturers have their own designs and hardly surprisingly technology is improving.

AVC-HD has the capability to be something like twice as efficient as MPEG2 - but the earliest coders didn't come anywhere close to that. I expect the cameras about to be released to be better, how much better remains to be seen.

What I'm waiting for is a smaller NXCAM, something to more rival the JVC HM100.

Robert M Wright · January 18th, 2010, 07:10 PM

From what Barry Green has written, it sure sounds like the image quality of Panasonic's AVCHD compression is right on par with XDCAM EX.

What my eyes tell me, looking at the images I get out of the HMC40, would tend to confirm that. It's unmistakeably better than HDV. The first time I shot a little 1080p24 with the HMC40, I was amazed. My first thought was, dang, this would probably cut with EX1 footage quite nicely.

Robert M Wright · January 18th, 2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

What I'm waiting for is a smaller NXCAM, something to more rival the JVC HM100.

Take a hard look at the HMC40. The image quality it can record is stunning (and it's no consumer-like lightweight for manual control either).

Jonathan Shaw · January 18th, 2010, 10:53 PM

But a 1/2" chip will always out perform a 1/3" chip with regards to low light which we all know is a big problem with a lot of these cams. The Ex1 if you would pull a 4:2:2 HD signal straight from the HD SDI and captured into a nano flash compared to an equivalent Panny 1/3" cam I reckon the picture quality in a low light situation would be dramatic. Would be good test if someone has access to all necessary equip.
Plus 1/2" give a great depth of field, not super slim like a 35mm sensor but better than a 1/3" sensor.

January 16th, 2010, 03:12 PM	#61
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	For some people, I guess it'll never be enough. Oh well... I look forward to see what Canon will be bringing to the table. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

January 17th, 2010, 10:31 PM	#63
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	Oh well looks like EX1 R sales are gonna go up, 25 mbps AVCHD..... nothing mind bending after all this time, how long ago was it that Canon released the XLH1..... 5 years ago! In that time Sony have come from Z1, Z7, EX1, Z5, EX3, EX1r, plus the nxcam or whatever the new one is..... __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

January 17th, 2010, 10:40 PM	#64
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Well to be fair, in the same amount of time Canon has gone through the XL H1A, XL H1S, XH A1S and XHG1S... for a total of seven cameras (three XL H models and four XH models) from Sep. 2005 to Nov. 2008, so it's not like they haven't been doing anything. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 17th, 2010, 11:15 PM	#66
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	Okay, I was probably a little unfair but the A1/G1/A1s/G1s are all pretty similar... but yes I'm sure they have been busy, I can't imagine the whole Canon R&D team just flogging facebook day in day out ; ) __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

January 18th, 2010, 10:53 PM	#75
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	But a 1/2" chip will always out perform a 1/3" chip with regards to low light which we all know is a big problem with a lot of these cams. The Ex1 if you would pull a 4:2:2 HD signal straight from the HD SDI and captured into a nano flash compared to an equivalent Panny 1/3" cam I reckon the picture quality in a low light situation would be dramatic. Would be good test if someone has access to all necessary equip. Plus 1/2" give a great depth of field, not super slim like a 35mm sensor but better than a 1/3" sensor. __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

January 16th, 2010, 03:29 PM	#62
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	No doubt there is a market for a 35mm sized sensor video camera, it's entirely another matter if all the people will be satisfied with the cost of such a camera, which would be higher that the current DSLR cameras. With video cameras and I suspect with stills cameras, the smaller the sensor the bigger the market.

January 18th, 2010, 12:55 PM	#68
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I can agree with Jonathan's sentiment though. I really appreciate what Sony did with the EX-1/3. They are the only maker who put 1/2" imagers in their cameras and full raster at that. The onslaught of 1/3" imaging chip cameras seems like it will never end. From my point of view, if JVC or Canon would embrace 1/2" chips they could differentiate their cameras from the 1/3" sea of offerings. But I know it is a technical hurdle as well.

January 18th, 2010, 05:32 PM	#70
Jim Martin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burbank, CA 91502 Posts: 949	But Robert, you are so ..er....pursuasive (sp)...... Jim

January 18th, 2010, 07:10 PM	#73
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	From what Barry Green has written, it sure sounds like the image quality of Panasonic's AVCHD compression is right on par with XDCAM EX. What my eyes tell me, looking at the images I get out of the HMC40, would tend to confirm that. It's unmistakeably better than HDV. The first time I shot a little 1080p24 with the HMC40, I was amazed. My first thought was, dang, this would probably cut with EX1 footage quite nicely.