XF100 First impressions
 

I just got the XF100 today and had a chance to play with it. It's a nice piece of hardware, no doubt and even for (all) the issues that I'm listing below, I don't regret buying it. I'll get used to the quirks of this cam - eventually, but if somebody knows someone at Canon, please hand on this list.

I don't find this camera exceptionally user friendly, or maybe it's just picky about it's friends? I disagree with those who wrote that it's logical and easy to navigate menus.

In fact, all my comments relates to the user interface, some things are, in my opinion, screaming for a fast firmware upgrade - and that's the good news: All the quirks and other issues I have found everything can be changed with a firmware upgrade. Please?

So, here we go:

Key/Dial: Right next to the lens barrel there is the key/dial. It wasn't clear what this was untill I had it in my hand: It's a dial with a key button in the center.

By default the dial is configured as Iris/ND, and the button: Well, it works exactly as the iris button on the camera body which happens to be right next the dial as well. What a waste of buttons.

But, it's worse: It's not really clear what this Iris/ND means. If you have ND enabled in the menu turning the Iris/ND dial will change iris and/or ND in some unpredictable fashion. You cannot control either. If you disable ND in the menu, the dial works as a control of Iris only.

What I would like to see is this: When the key/dial is set to default Iris/ND the key will switch through the modes:

Iris -> ND -> Iris/ND

Letting you control completly Iris, ND or let the camera weigh Iris and ND. As it is, I guess the only way I can control ND is buying a stack of ND filters. Actually, if they would save a button they could adding Auto Iris, Auto ND and Auto Iris/ND to the above list.

And that dedicated Iris button on the camera body could then be reassigned to exposure mode (see below) for toggling between standard, backlight and spotlight.

IS (image stabilization): Configurable button 1 is preset to powered IS (on/off), but for standard or dynamic mode you have to go through the menu:

You can choose between Image Stabilization, Axis and off. Enabling Image Stabilization you can choose standard or dynamic (not powered). If you choose axis you can configure that for 3D shooting.

Then the preconfigured Powered IS button will toggle Powered IS on/off, and in off leave whatever has been configured in the menu on.

You can assign another button to turn on/off IS (normal or dynamic mode), that is it will toggle on/off the selected IS mode, if you want to change from dynamic to standard you have to go through the menu.

The three IS modes are mutually exclusive, so the right behavior would be a button that lets you toggle between any of the four modes

dynamic -> normal -> powered -> off?

I imagine that toggling IS on/off is something you'd likely do often and having these four in one button is both logical and optimal usage of the available buttons. This should be trivial to correct, the only thing is that on the body "Powered IS" is painted next to that preassigned button.

And what about axis, is it incompatible with the other IS modes? Not clear at all. I would assume that an optical axis shift would be compatible with any IS mode or none at all, but from the way it is enabled it is not clear.

Zebra patterns: There are four possible settings, zebra 1, zebra 2, zebra 1&2 and off. As with OIS, zebra has been preconfigured for the configurable button 2, allowing you to toggle the selected zebra on/off.

Why not a button that lets you toggle through the four different combinations?

zebra 1 -> zebra 2 -> zebra 1&2 -> off

Admitted, I would probably get accostumed to use one zebra setting only, so in this case it will save me a few pushes of a button and be more convenient as is.

Peaking: The camera supports two peaking levels, peak 1 and peak 2. Peaking has not been preconfigured to a configurable button, but a button can be configured to toggle the selected peaking on/off.

As with zebra, you might find yourself only using one peaking level so it won't be much of an issue, but again, the more user friendly choice would be a button that toggles between the two peaking levels and off:

peak 1 -> peak 2 -> off

Lightmetering: The camera supports three modes of light metering for Auto Exposure: Backlight, normal and spotlight. No configurable button has been configured for this.

Again, you can confiure one button to toggle backlight on/off, and another to toggle spotlight on/off. Of course this doesn't make sense as you cannot have both spotlight and backlight at the same time, indeed doing so, turning on one will turn off the other.

Again, the correct functioning would be one single button that toggles through each option:

normal -> backlight -> spotlight

Gain: Can't be off? Well, that's 0dB gain, so to keep an off setting I must reserve L (Low) for 0dB? OK, I know, this is really just asking for an extra setting, but from a user perspective, 0dB is off to me, whereas I assume L to be something.

Whitebalance: You can set whitebalance to one of 6 possible configurations Auto WB, Pre A, Pre B, Daylight, Tungsten and Kelvin, obviosly, there is no off.

Buttons on the side lets you toggle through

Auto WB -> Select -> Pre A -> Pre B.

Where Select is the WB you can set in the menu, Daylight, Tungsten or Kelvin, For Pre A and Pre B there is a set button right next to calibrate against a white object.

But if you want to change between Daylight, Tungsten or Kelvin, you have to go to the menu to select it, and for Kelvin, configure the desired temperature. And this cannot be configured to one of the configurable buttons.

Why not let the WB button toggle through all 6 modes?

Auto WB -> Daylight -> Tungsten -> Kelvin -> Pre A -> Pre B

For Kelvin, pushing the set button should open the menu to set the desired temperature, and for Pre A and Pre B it should work as now. I saw this on the XHA1 as well with, not two, but three buttons to select WB. Apparently they haven't given it a thought in 4 years.

Custom Picture settings: The number of parameters that can be tweaked for the in camera picture manipulation is huge. But the camera allows saving only 9 in camera and another 20 on the SD memory card, like the XHA1 4 years ago. I suppose there is the same restriction on file names, honestly, OK it works, but it seems silly and completely unnecessary to impose such restrictions.

Despite of the number of parameters you can toggle, I guess that in the end you'll end up using 5 or 6 favorite settings on a regular basis. Here's the big miss: You cannot assign a CP to a configurable button or assign a button for toggling through the stored CPs.

I would really like to assign my 6 favorite CPs to the 6 unconfigured configurable buttons!

Display: The zoom indicator, I saw this also on the XHA1, it's a bar with a box moving back and forth to give some idea of the zoom, you can change the display to show a number from 0 to 99?? OK this number makes no sense to me at all, we know there is a 10x zoom, we know that the 35mm equivalent range is 30 to 300mm approx. wouldn't it be just great if you could show the zoom as 35mm equivalent?

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I also work with an XF100. Still digesting it, and will post impressions very soon.

My problem with the User Interface is pretty much the opposite of Erik's, and the difference between our two approaches is probably why Canon ended up in the middle between our two extremes.

I want to hit one button to produce whatever setting I want, I want to do it without interupting my concentration to look at the monitor to see which of many settings I produce by hitting that button. To me, having many settings associated with one button is bad, essentially the same as using a screen driven menu system. Wait a minute, that is exactly what it is.

So, the choice is more settings per button, or ease of use. I do docs and EFP, and I hate it when I miss a irreproducible shot because I am fiddling with settings on the monitor. I want nothing to come between me and the subject.

The XF100 is part of an accelerating trend in transparent videography. Instead of focusing the attention on the camera, as you would so in cinema shoot, the camera should fade away and remove the distance between DP and subject. That is why it is so small that it feels like an extension of your hand.

I predict that in the future we will see more and more pro level tiny cams. Much of the modern style of shooting has arisen from the ergonomics of consumer cams, and they why they change the relationship between subject and filmmaker. The modern style, whether in Hollywood or YouTube has real merit, and has arisen from the way nonfilmmakers, with inferior equipment, have made filmmaking relevant for more than static story telling. The trend to steadicam shots, camera movement, and new moving frames-POVs all are part of this trend, and reflect trends started by people simply were one with what they videoed. Imagine how much easier it will be to do with a smaller cam.

My complaint, no - not a complaint but a plea, is that there are not more single purpose buttons on the XF100. But I think the XF100 is a breakthrough cam whose significance is not cost but that it might accelerate the removal of the camera as the POV, and move closer to the filmmaker-observer as the
POV. It certainly does this for me, as a filmmaker, and I am by no means the most talented person who will use this wonderful instrument.

Why the XF100, and not previous small cams such as the HMC-40? Just pick up and hold the XF100, from the metal body to the peaking and zebra settings, it feels like pro cam downsized, and not a consumer cam with a XLR handle. Canon positions it as an adjunct to the XF300, neither Panasonic nor JVC positioned their small cams as worthy of being used next to their upper level camera.

As for the codec, all I will say so far is that I do not see the color banding so common in dSLRs and lower level AVCHD cams. I also shoot with AVCHD so please do not flame me. I really do not feel that in this one respect that AVCHD is twice as efficient as MPEG2. And yes, I know the theoretic arguments.

As for more pixel peeking, that will come in another post. For now I want to express what I feel is the core of the XF100 experience, and potential.

Would I pay two or three times more for the same size cam with better sensor, and I am not saying this is a bad sensor, of course. Just as the DVX100 democratized filmmaking,the XF100 might go a long way to removing the barrier between filmmaker and subject, a long anticipated revolution in itself.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

The above posts state two different opinions but in a very measured way. That is why as a "newbie" & hopefully a soon to be xf 100 owner I follow & enjoy this forum.
Thanks
Mike

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

That's a big +1 ... Cheers.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Good to read that you are enjoying the XF100. I am still considering buying one.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

i was waiting for this thread long time :)

How do u compare this with CANON XHA1?

Is it a good replacement to the old A1?

thank u

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

The previous post really boils down to whether to buttons should be simple on/off or toggle through a number of choices. We can't have enough buttons to have one for each possible function, on the other hand, going through the menu regardless of how well you know your way around, is painfully slow. Often used functions should be easily accessible through a button.

One such example is the IS, you can't really navigate the menu while walking and less while running, and that's exactly the moment you'd like to turn on IS. If you're doing run'n'gun ENG this is going to annoy you.

It takes less than 3 seconds to push that one button 4 times equivalent to going through the four options standard -> dynamic -> powered -> off. It takes 15 seconds to navigate to the menu, enable IS and choose the mode normal or dynamic if different from what was previously chosen. I might be able to improve that time to about 12 seconds. Both done while the camera was mounted on a tripod.

OK, there is a short cut, if you don't got back to the top of the menu, pushing menu again will bring you back to the item you last used, I guess you'll go back to IS again and again.

The menu as well leaves room for improvement:

First you have to enable IS, so you go menu -> camera -> OIS Functions -> choose Img. Stabilizer and push set. Then to choose the desired mode, go down to Image Stabilizer enter that submenu and choose between Dynamic or Normal.

Things to note here: From the menu you cannot choose Powered IS!! Apparently this is only available if you have it assigned to a configurable button! Not logical at all, Powered IS is the third mode of IS and should be listed along with Dynamic and Normal in the menu. Better save a button for Powered IS.

Given that the possible IS modes are both few and mutually exclusive, I think it adds little extra complexity to have one button to toggle through each, compared to the complexity and hassle of having some available through the menu and others using a button.

More things: If you set OIS to off, the item Img. Stabilizer for choosing Dynamic/Normal is greyed, of course it makes no sense to choose that if it's disabled, right? wrong: 1st. why should you have to first enable then choose? Given the menu short cut mentioned before, you might find you want to go the other way. 2nd if you assign IS to a button, choosing the desired IS mode toggles how that button works. Now, as it is, you can only do that if on.

Another thing you'll notice while OIS is off, is that the Axis menu item remain white, but if you enter that submenu item everything is greyed out. The Axis menu item should be grey.

The way that OIS is accessed and configured is everything but logical, it really screams for a fast firmware update, it's really one of my main complaints, but one I guess I have to live with until they figure it out (maybe reading this post).

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

That's depends on what parameters you'd like to compare, and it's too early to say. The A1 is no doubt obsoleted by the FX300 I think, without having ever had it in my hands. Against the FX100 I cannot exclude the possibility that the A1 can outperform it due to the 3CCD and better optics.

But: I sold my A1 to buy the FX100, and there is no chance that I'll regret it: Half the weight, half the body size and going tapeless alone are enough selling points to convince me. The handling and user interface is much easier, despite my complaints above, in fact I had more or less the same complaints regarding the A1. The only thing I miss from the A1 is the easy access to the CPs.

Since I sold my A1 I can't do any tests to compare the two.

BR

More on the Iris/ND
 

So, I did some testing, you can set ND to off or automatic and you can set an iris limit to f/8.0. The latter is to avoid the slight blur due to diffraction at small apertures.

Now, setting ND to automatic, and using manual Iris/ND through the key/dial, it is not as unpredictable as I stated in my first impression, it works like this:

Turning the dial will adjust aperture from f/1.8-f/4.0, from there ND will increase from none, 1/2, 1/4 to 1/8, then continuing, the aperture will go from f/4.0 to f/8.0, if you've enabled iris limit that's where it stops, otherwise the iris indicator will become grey to tell you you've gone beyond the recommended limit, until it reach f/22.

The ND indicator on the display does not show intermediate ND, so while you see the image become darker both ND and F stays the same, until it jumps a stop.

One thing that is a bit annoying is that beyond F4 w. ND1/8, the dial is slow going to the next F-stops. It seems that auto ND is working behind the scenes to get the right exposure even though everything else manual.

Only if you turn ND off can you actually close the iris?? Wonder how that works.

Anyway, if you want to use ND to keep a shallower DOF at large aperture, better get some filters.

Power save mode
 

Other cameras have an automatic time out after which the camera will switch to a power save mode. This time out is usually configurable and can be disabled.

The XF100 does not have this. Instead Canon has put a Power Save button right above the Powered IS button. Hold it down 2 seconds and the camera goes in power save mode. Press again and the camera is back up and ready in about 1 second. Alternatively, you can switch the camera off, switching on the camera, the camera is ready in ... ahm 5 seconds.

That's 2 seconds saved there in your workflow!

And, btw, in power save mode, you have to hit the power save button to start the camera, if something happens and you hastily just push record? too late you just missed the action.

This dedicated power save button cannot be assigned to something more useful. What a waste of buttons. Give us a normal time out as every other camera has. And, those four buttons on the back, now this would be neat, four often used functions in four dedicated buttons: OIS, Zebra, Peak and WFM.

As a side note: Philip, that WFM button works just like you don't want it to, it toggles between off, waveform monitor and edge monitor. It's not like the concept of toggling between related functions is unknown to Canon.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Erik, you and I agree much more than we disagree.

My biggest problem so far is that, like you, I am a little frustrated that the XF100 has the power to do what I want but not as easily as I would like. Setting combinations are not easy to do. However, some combinations of settings can be saved to the SD card, and I have yet to try this. I hope that once I get past the exploration phase of my relationship with the cam that I will have a few favorite settings that I can toggle between.

I share your frustration with the electronic ND function. Like you I have decided to order some optical ND filters for shooting in bright light. Unfortunately, it has been cloudy here and I have not been able to do any exterior shooting. Really wish there were optical ND filters switchable with a dial.

Since so many people will be looking at these first reports, and they will set the tone for how the XF100 is perceived, I think that we should also talk about the film making experience, not just our frustration with the menu system. Everything you say is true, but there is so much more to the XF100 experience.

Both good and bad.

The point of my post was not to disagree with you, at its heart we are both saying that the menu system is not optimal for either style of shooting, yours or mine. If it had zeroed in on one style of shooting then it would have led users into that style. It does not.

Never-the-less, I feel that the full impact of the XF100 series is not in how it interacts with the tehcnical part of every videographer but how it interacts with the subject and the videographer's relationship with the subject.

For example, my significant other is camera shy. You know the type, arms stiffly held to the side whenever a camera wanders in her direction. With the XF100 she has been much more relaxed, even more than with my GH13.

Although the XF100 mounts perfectly on my Miller DS-5 head, I find myself wanting to use the XF100 with more mobility, as an extension of my being rather that a camera that sits between me and the world. And I keep emphasizing this portion of my experience. It is something that cannot be easily described in an equipment review, but it may be the most important thing about the XF100.

In the next few days, after the new house problems subside, I am going to explore some aspects of what the XF100 may open up. If it does what I think then it will certainly change my style of shooting, and I think that it will do that for many people.

In addition to normal videography, I want to explore how the XF100 can take the modern style of videoblogging, and extend it to create a professional product using the "folk art" of Vimeo and YouTube. So many great artists, especially Picasso, took folk art and "professionalized" it. There is a huge video movement out there that is incompatible with large pro rigs, but could be perfected with a smaller pro rig. So far only GoPro has touched that trend, but now the XF100 offers ways to do that with much more control over the final product. Will talk about that more later, or better yet have some shot tests.

We are in the middle of multiple technical revolutions. The dSLRs created a new style of videography, and I feel that the same potential lies in a new generation of tiny but powerful cams. Whether it is the XF100, or the GoPro, or whatever Panasonic introduces at NAB, something new is happening. Video enabled dSLRs created a new smaller experience, and now that same ethos is emerging in new generation of smaller video cams with features not possible in a dSLR. That could be very powerful, I want to try to set the discussion to focus on that possibility, not what the XF100 is missing but what new possibilities it offfers.

The XF100 may be something new that will spontaneously create its own style of shooting, and the power of those possibilities can be lost when it is reduced to technical details.

Almost everyone agrees on one thing, hold the XF100 and you will immediately experience those possibilities. It just feels "right."

Sure the XF100 will do what we did before, and do it well, but it also is the leading edge of a video revolution that is flowing from so many different places.

Will it make my films better than they were before? So far the answer is yes; and isn't that all that matters?

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I realize that what I have written may overshadow this in many other aspects tiny but great camera. All but the auto ND issues can be addressed with a firmware upgrade, and none of these quirks are of the kind that would make me change my mind.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Even consumer camcorders like TM700 and HF S21 are good replacements for A1, XF100/105 is a very good replacement for it

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Erik & Philip, thank you for your first impressions. Have either of you experimented with the "Digital Extender" as I would be interested to use it provided there is no noticeable image loss

Thanks

Bob

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Hi: I'm still just playing around getting familiar with menus and controls. The Digital Extender in the menu is called Tele-converter (menu -> camera -> tele-converter) and lets you choose between 1.5, 3 and 6 times magnification. It's not mentioned in the manual.

This is really just digital zoom on top of the ordinary zoom, so if of any use it's when you have reached the zoom maximum. I just briefly tried it, only looking on the camera LCD with magn. on, the 1.5x seems ok, the 3x may be acceptable, but 6x doesn't look very good.

Now, I haven't really done much more than taking a quick look and that's in low light conditions, but that's my impression.

If you're worried about lack of zoom think about getting the optical teleconverter that gives about 1.5x extra.

BR, Erik

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Thanks Eric, I had been hoping that it would be similar to the Digital Extender on the cheap Canon PowerShot still cameras. The extender on the SX30IS stills camera works exceptional well.

When the extender is enabled on the SX30 (which has both Digital zoom and extender), the extender changes both the wide angle and telephoto angles, whereas the digital zoom just extends the telephoto end.

Bob

The lens and zoom
 

OK, I'm not familiar with Canons lens branding, I understand that L-series are superior, and for what I know the lens on the XF100 is not an L-series lens. The camera sports a 10x zoom with 35mm equivalent of 30mm - 300mm, the first reviews I read mentioned the wide end as a feat. few other cameras offer.

As mentioned in other post, you can't get a focal length indicator on the display, you have three options:

- a zoom bar that gives some visual idea of where the zoom is
- a number from 0 to 99, 0 = 30mm and 99 = 300mm in 35mm equivalent, but I don't know if that scale is linear.
- and a "focal length guide" (menu -> camera -> zoom -> focal length guide) which when selected sets to 0 at the current focal length and will give a range 153 "wide", that is 0-153 if set to 0 at widest point.

It's not really clear how any of these relate to the focal length. The big difference between the zoom guide and the focal length guide is that the zoom guide, bar or number, disappears from the screen after a second once you stop zooming, while the focal length guide stays.

The lens suffer from a barrel distortion in the wider end, this is a common problem in all lenses, particular zooms with a long zoom range such as those used on video cameras, on shorter zooms and primes this can be corrected.

Depending on the distance to the subject and the zoom level this distortion is significant. I found that you need to zoom in to the zoom guide number 15 or so before the distortion is not clearly visible on the LCD, it may still be on a big screen. In the 10-15 range it may only be a problem if you have straight lines in the image that appear bended, but you won't notice it otherwise on other objects. If this zoom guide is linear, it means that the barrel distortion is visible in the 30-75mm range (in 35mm equivalent).

Unlike iris where the camera allows you to enable an iris limit so it won't go beyond f/8 to avoid image blur due to refraction, there is no configurable limit on zoom to avoid barrel distortion. I'm not so impressed due to the distortion that leaves the wide end. There is a wide angle converter lens that can be attached, I don't know if this will produce better straight lines instead of relying on the zoom all the way in the wide end.

EDIT: I did some more testing, and I must review my opinion on the barrel issue, after todays testing I much happier with the wide end:

1st: It's most pronounced in vertical lines in the sides, that's not surprising as barrel effect always becomes more pronounced further away from the center and due to the full HD wide format. It does mean that it will normally not affect your main subject.

2nd: It is significant at zoom level 0, at zoom level 5 you have to look for it to notice it and at 10 I think it's gone, so it affects a much shorter zoom range than I initially stated above.

Wether you'll notice depends on what you shoot. Even at level 0 you might not notice it unless your subject is very close to the lens and get distorted, or you have straight lines like poles that everyone expect to be straight. Towards level 5 and 10 you need to be looking for it and you need straight lines for reference. The less pronounced the effect, the more you need strong contrast lines. Shoot a checker board and you might notice it at level 10.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I just threw an old Canon. 0.7x wide angle adapter on the XF100 rather than the impossible to find and very expensive 0.8x adapter coming out for this cam. The old adapter produced profound barrel distortion when the cam was zoomed to wide angle. Not usable. There are menu settings for both the wide angle and tele adapters, I tried using them in this test but they wide angle setting did not help with the 0.7's barrel distortion. Wonder if they compensate for the new adapters, and only them.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

i hope doug jensen, who is often on these forums, will release via his media company, vortex, a similar "how-to" video that he did for the canon xf305/xf300.

doug does a great job (i've owned his sony ex1 and his canon xf305 dvds) and a comparison between the xf3** series and the xf1** series would be very helpful.

doug, are you listening?

ymmv

be well

rob
smalltalk productions

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I wrote to Doug, and expressed a similar desire. He responded that there are no current plans to do a video for the XF100 series but that there would be some value in looking at the XF300 video even if you are shooting on the XF100.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Eric,

I have just been looking at the camera in the showroom and the extender is just what I expected. If you go to the Wide end of the zoom and then switch the converter on, you can see the image size increase by the factor that you selected. This is similar to the PowerShots I mentioned before. As you mentioned the quality looks good at 1.5x and 3x and I agree.

Bob

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I'm still waiting on some impressions with regards to image quality; particularly low light performance. Anybody??

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

The "Teleconverter" you can enable in the menu as previously described is just a digital zoom, it adds 1.5x, 3x or 6x on top of whatever optical zoom level you have set, the two are independent, you can use the teleconverter at any zoom level you like, just as you say above. It does not work as typical digital zoom which goes first to the extreme end of the optical zoom and then beyond that adds digital zoom.

What it does is really image crop + upscale, and obviously, the more you crop+upscale the worse the result. In the wide end there is really no point in using it as you will get much better image quality using the optical zoom, that's why I didn't try it at that end. If on a regular basis you find the zoom range too short, consider getting the 1.5x attachable teleconverter, it will give you a much better image.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I'm not sure if I made the idea clear: My idea was, rather than use the wide range of the zoom (level 0-15) use zoom level 15-30 with the 0.7x adapter, to get into the same range. Is that what you did?

BR, Erik

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Completely different tests. There are multiple conversations going on simultaneously, and multiple first impressions. I was going for wide angle. Wide close shots are my thing. And I was reporting on how well a common accessory worked with the XF100 for wide, not tele that requires the 1.5x adapter.

If you need long tele throw, digital zoom has visible noise. I might use 1.5x in an emergency but nothing above that, I can see noise even in the tiny viewfinder. Rather crop in post if I did not have an optical tele adapter.

Frankly I do not see the point of the XF100's digital zoom. The XF100 gets it's performance by starting with a native resolution sensor of 1900x1080. That is why such a small sensor can do so well. But that also means that when you use digital zoom you are trying to create a 1080 image from less than 1080 pixels, and it is optically impossible to add in more resolution to create a sharp 1080 image. There is less information to work with.

It is not a design flaw, rather a choice to have a native resolution sensor with bigger and more sensetive pixels than are in oversampled video chips. That is the secret sauce that makes the XF 1/3" sensors perform so well. Bad for digital zoom but good for all other situations.

Most of the previous generation of affordable video pro cams actually have sensors with less than 1080 pixels, so essentially they start with digital zoom, and what they call digital zoom is simply a greater degree of what they do all the time, so you do not see as big a difference as you would with the XF series that gets it exceptional sharpness from not pixel combining.

In other cams such as the GH2, that use over sampling to create the base 1080 image from more than 1080 pixels you can reduce the oversampling and still have 1080 resolution.

But the XF series is optimized for its native resolution sensors, and you throw that away with digital zoom, taking the digital zoom from a less than 1080 pixel region. Then the XF performs as poorly as you would expect from any of the less than 1080 pixel 1/3" sensors found in previous generations of cameras. Either get the adapter or get another cam if you need extreme telephoto. You'll be much happier.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

me too... actually everyone seems to focus (no pun intended) mainly on menu structures and not on the actual output

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Sorry, no. You're just being impatient.

It's a complex camera and there's lots of stuff to learn, settings to tweak and experiment with, things that will affect the performance also in low light conditions. You might ask some pro Canon tester to do test shots out of the box, but I'm not one of those.

I haven't done much recording, part because I'm still waiting for my CF cards to arrive right now I only have one 8GB card that will give me about 20 min., and part because well, hey I got it on thursday, the battery was flat and needed a recharge overnight .. and I work too, and have a life (or at least I like to imagine having one). Actually, I have only had one night to do night shots! Just how much testing do you reasonably expect in such a short time?

Secondly, it's actually difficult to do a useful test shot. It's not enough to see the end result, you also need to know under what conditions it was shot and with what settings. Even in a controlled environment, it's not necessarily useful for you unless you know that environment.

Finally, my impressions and choices of what to try is largely guided by what I find interesting to do and what road my curiosity happens to take me down of. If our interests don't coincide, hope for somebody else to join the discussion, or buy the camera and go testing.

Btw, in case you haven't noticed, about half the day there's plenty of light :), and you will find the comments about iris and auto-ND very useful. I had the cam out today in bright sunlight, Spain latitude, really need to get those ND filters soon.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Erik; when you turn the dial to adjust the aperture (when the ND is on automatic) do you see any visual jumps in exposure when the ND goes from 1/2, 1/4 to 1/8 or does the image gradually become darker and lighter?

Is the iris dial smooth enough to turn easily or do you have to apply some force to it?

Must say that the position of the iris dial and the fact that the camera doesn't have separate manual ND's got me doubting whether I should buy it, I do a lot of handheld work and always controll the ND's/iris manually, I need to be sure the camera will be able to handle constant changing light conditions (like going from dark inside to sunny outside) just by using that small dial. (with ND set to auto)

Is it easy to turn that small dial with f.i. your thumb when you handhold the camera?

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Hi:

The dial is has a very nice texture, good resistance and smooth turn.

Change of aperture and/or ND is continuous and smooth, only the numbers on the display jumps. This can be somewhat confusing, you turn the dial, and see things get darker but ND and F stays the same. I don't know the inner workings of the camera, but I'm somewhat puzzled as to how this continuous change actually works.

The problem with automatic ND is that you may not always agree with Canon engineers as to when you wan't ND applied, sometimes you want wide aperture and start using ND to keep DOF as shallow as possible, other times you want a large DOF first, and then apply ND only after. The only way to control ND manually is by using screw on filters.

As for the handling: In handheld, I prefer to hold the camera in the handle with my right hand and support it underneath with my left. My left hands thumb is right on the dial. It's not perfect though:

First, if you also use manual focus it can be difficult to change between the dials without camera shake.

Second, while you can perfectly turn the dial with just the thumb, you may need to turn it multiple times, so it won't be that continuous. I just tried, with ND set to automatic, I can do one continuous half turn with my thumb, and it takes two complete turns to go from f/1.8 to f/22+ND1/8.

If you go from indoor darkness to sunny outside, I think this is difficult with any camera. You might need to go from f/1.8 to f/8+ND1/8, but then, you'd also need to modify white balance. ADDED: In the more likely situation that you're filming outdoor in a partly cloudy weather, I think you won't find problems with this dial.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Thx Erik, that's valuable information, this camera is not even on display in video stores in my country and soonest it would be available was in 2 weeks when ordered but that remains to be seen. This means I only have other people impressions to go on right now so good you got an early start. :)

Can't you assign focus to the ring on the lens and at the same time the iris to that small dial?

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

That's the setup I was referring to.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I checked to see if the Focal Length Guide number is linear. The guide has 154 values (0 to 153); I set it to 0 with the focal length at 30.4mm; it then reads 153 at 304mm.

I compared the field of view to several lenses on a Canon 5DMkII, with the XF100 and the 5DMkII approximately the same diatance from a target (a bookshelf). As the target was fairly close the accuracy of this method for focal length is not good for the longer focal lengths, but I was only looking for the comparitive field of view. Also 35mm lens focal length numbers are not gospel, so the comparisons should be taken as approximate.

The Guide number is NOT linear. Here are the comparative numbers:

30.4mm FL# 0
40mm FL# 21 (Canon 17-40mm set to 40mm)
50mm FL# 31 (Sigma 50mm)
50mm FL# 35 (Canon 24-105mm set to 50mm mark)
70mm FL# 61 (Canon 70-200mm set to 70mm)
105mm FL# 83 (Canon 24-105mm set to 105mm)
200mm FL# 143 (Canon 70-200mm set to 200mm)
304mm FL# 153

As an example, if the FL# was linear, 40mm would be FL# 5 and 50mm would be FL# 11.

I do quite a bit of video around 50mm, so the FL# for 50mm is in the range of 31-35.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Actually yes it is linear... just not in a way you might expect, that is,
not straight line or rectilinear. It is instead curvilinear. This was the
same situation with the previous XH and XL H camcorders as well,
by the way.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Just acquired an XF100, and I think I'm in love. I have not had time to really evaluate the image quality, but so far it seems fantastic - clean, sharp, and quite artifact free. This is the camera that I was hoping for shortly after I stopped using Sony's HC1. I thought seriously about getting an FX7, V1, HMC40, or one of the other pint size cameras that offer professional features, but this is the first camera that seems to hit the mark (at least for me). It solves a lot of issues I had with the XH-A1, and I think it's a substantial step up from the XH-A1 in every way except for its shorter telephoto reach and maybe a little less straight-forward access to controls on the fly - although I don't yet know what's possible with the XF100. The OIS is great.

I shot some low-light in my office at 24 P and a gain of 0 db, and it looked good to me - very little noise. But I also like the low-key look. I usually want the scene to look as dark as it really does. It may be a while before I could add to the sample clips that have already been posted.

The XF100 looks great, balances well, is quite small but clearly has a formidable array of adjustable settings. The lens seems quite good - only very minor CA at wide. I think Canon has a winner with this camera. I never had a chance to go though my typical 5 days of buyer's remorse.

Pat

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

I was thinking on getting the xf100 as a second cam and as a xh-a1 owner I"m trying to get as much as possible "real-life" feedback from current users, can I ask in what ways you think the xf100 is that much better? From what I see so far the image (color) quality and especially the sharpness look better, are there other points you see a significant improvement?

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

has anyone compared the XF100 output with the Sony EX1r's?

I know they are completely different camcorders, and the chip size difference puts them into different leagues, but I've read somewhere that the XF100 holds it pretty well and has so much better ergonomics

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Noa, I'll try to provide more feedback once I have had more time with the camera. So far, the image stabilization seems much better, the codec is cleaner, color gradations are more natural, it's easier to hold...

I used popular presets on the XH-A1. I wanted good resolution, but the image often showed tiny spidery noise even in good light - something that may have been less of a problem if I had managed the settings for less resolution and greater noise reduction. I'm not seeing this with the XF100. In full auto, everything looks sharp and clean, and I would be inclined to manage settings for less sharpness on this camera. The IAF on the XH-A1 would sometimes pulse as you zoomed in on a subject. So far I have seen little of this on the XF100.

I would characterize myself as a serious amateur with semi-pro leanings. I don't have to get out and shoot. The weight of the XH-A1 and some of the issues I've described were a deterrent in a way. My primary interest is nature and landscape videography. I might travel or hike with a smaller less competent camera than the XH-A1 if I didn't want to deal with the size, weight, and image characteristics of the XH-A1. I had high expectations for the XH-A1, and they were usually met, but not without a price.

I am also starting to get interested in doing music videos and events. While the XF100 may not be ideal for the former, it should pair nicely with a 5D II. It's size would make any shooting involving people less intrusive and more discreet. On the other hand, if it's important for you to have a camera that looks pro for a client, I think the XF100 will work for this as well. Apart from it's size, it actually looks a little more pro than the XH-A1.

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Some other things that are better on the XF100 than on the XH-A1: The LCD is larger and much higher in resolution; it shoots in infrared night mode; it will do time lapse, slow motion, and fast motion video; it uses compact flash cards instead of tapes.

There are lot of things that are similar, custom presets, the battery looks to be good for about 4 hours, two zoom rockers, and more.

I think a lot of pros will choose to use this camera regardless of whether it ends up on BBC's approved list or not.

Pat

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

thank u very much Pat for your info

I took my CANON XHA1 to a camera store for sale including WD72 wide lens and as soon this camera finds a buyer, I will buy XF100..

I was worying about the low light abilities of XF100 vs XHA1

Re: XF100 First impressions
 

Hi Anthony. You have probably seen this thread, but in case you haven't there is a comparison between the XH-A1s and XF100 in low light:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xf...100-vimeo.html

The XH-A1s may do a little better, which wouldn't be a big surprise given its 3 sensor design. What we don't know yet is how well the XF100 will do with a custom preset setup configured for optimal low light performance. There are only a few presets out there right now, but it shouldn't be too difficult to design your own if you understand the variables and are willing to experiment.

Pat