XF300 Weight/Handling at DVinfo.net

Jody Arnott · January 3rd, 2013, 08:26 PM

Hey guys,

I know I've been asking a lot of questions recently, but I think I've almost decided on my new camera. Just deciding between the XF300, JVC HM600 and PMW-200 now.

Anyway, I'm after some info from XF300 owners who use the camera for run-and-gun shooting. I shoot a lot of events that require me to be on my feet running around with the camera hand-held all day.

Is the XF300 too heavy for this type of work? Keep in mind I'm coming from an XA10, so I'm not used to heavy cameras.

Thanks for any info :)

Martin Catt · January 3rd, 2013, 08:36 PM

Most likely, you --WILL-- need some kind of shoulder mount if you aren't shooting tripod-based. I went from an XL2 to the XF300. I loved going totally digital (no tape), but without the tape transport mechanism, the XF300 is shorter and doesn't have the integral shoulder rest. As a result, even after adding a shoulder mount, the XF300 is kinda front heavy. You can counteract this by adding a battery mount to the rear of the shoulder mount to counterbalance the rig.

Martin

Nigel Barker · January 4th, 2013, 01:46 AM

The XF300 is surprisingly light for the bulk. I have an XF105 & find that small but in comparison an XA10 is tiny.

Jody Arnott · January 4th, 2013, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

The XF300 is surprisingly light for the bulk. I have an XF105 & find that small but in comparison an XA10 is tiny.

Thanks for the info. So do you think it would be a suitable camera to hand hold for longs periods? And if not, can anyone recommend a shoulder rig?

Also, does anyone know if the images from the XA10 and XF300 can be cut together nicely in post? Obviously the images will be different, but any clues if they are close enough to work with?

Thanks again

Robin Davies-Rollinson · January 4th, 2013, 07:27 AM

Don't just think about shoulder-mounting the camera - I tend to shoot a lot with the camera tucked into my side which is no weight at all. If you need eye-level, it's easy to just raise it and use the eyepiece...

Bob Safay · January 4th, 2013, 07:40 AM

The XF300 is a magnificant camcorder. Look at the video I just posted on Underwater Over land. It was shot with the XF300 handheld. This is a truely professional camcorder. The IS is top notch. Bob

Les Wilson · January 4th, 2013, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody Arnott

...So do you think it would be a suitable camera to hand hold for longs periods? And if not, can anyone recommend a shoulder rig?...

There's no magic here. The standard for ENG is a shoulder mount camera. All 3 of those camcorders are similar in that they are handycams. That translates to 5-7 pounds wobbling at the end of your arm held at a distance where you can focus on the LCD or jammed into your eyesocket using the VF. Holding it steady for more than 10-15 seconds comes down to physical conditioning and various technique and assistive devices. Other that the pure physics of each camera's "curb weight" and weight distribution (lighter and even is generally better but differences between the cameras may be small), those cameras are pretty much the same and other factors should probably drive the decision.

There are a plethora of shoulder mounts to choose from and some searches here on DVinfo will give you a good idea of those that are out there. I suggest shooting on a few practice runs so you have a better idea of what you want for the camera you choose.

John M. Kim · January 4th, 2013, 11:29 AM

The Canon XF300 is a very nice camera. However I agree that it's ridiculously front-heavy. I tried it out at length and my right wrist was seriously aching. I've shot primarily with the XF100, HVX200, HPX170, and some EX1, and those were all noticeably easier to handhold, at least to me. Eventually I settled on the PMW200, which is reasonably comfortable to hold for long stretches. (I use a monopod to provide relief when needed.)

Tim Polster · January 4th, 2013, 11:52 AM

I would respectfully disagree about the XF300 being front heavy by itself. I find it is very balanced although not light like an HMC-150. If I have my palm in the side handle, left hand thumb under the front corner and the viewfinder against my face it is very easy to shoot. With the IS turned on you can be very steady even at the tele end of the lens.

I would advise to try all of these cameras first before making a decision as it varies a lot between designers.

You have a tough choice ahead! To me it comes down to colorimetry, codec and handling. All areas where the XF300 excels. Light gathering is where it is a little weaker than the others.

Al Bergstein · January 4th, 2013, 07:53 PM

Well, I own the 305 and 105, and a 5D. Yes, the 305 is not ideal for an all day run and gun, but, I would not trade it for a heavier shoulder mount camera, but wish it had a built in shoulder mount. . I also always bring a monopod with feet with me. This helps a great deal, and I also have a shoulder mount rig. There are lots of great ones out there. I like the DVTec rig. Folds up small and also lets me get the damn thing off my shoulder quickly, often. Anyway, I do also hand hold for long amounts of time, sometimes it works, and the ability to swivel the LCD around allows me to get the camera into any old position quickly. I do shoot it mounted on my shoulder, as I only use the LCD, not the EVF. It works great. It's slightly front heavy but is easy to get used to, and actually I find it works great. I agree with Tim's assessments above.

Low light is the weakness of this camera compared to a DSLR, but you already know that (G).

Would I buy it again. Absolutely. It's picture quality is just outstanding, and the ergonomics are very good, with some agravations (don't they all). Even after a lot of shooting on it, the 105 and the 5D Mkiii I find that if I really want "broadcast quality" on a run and gun shoot, I grab the 305. If I need to work more stealthy or need stills, I grab the 5D.

Here's two different run and guns

5D run and gun with a wired mic directly into the camera.

305 hand held in low stage light (Cheryl was moving all over the place)

Erick Perdomo · January 4th, 2013, 10:57 PM

I use a Manfrotto 561BHDV1 Video Monopod with the Canon XF300 and I couldn't survive without it!
I also use a Sachtler ACE..
sometimes hand held can create a nice flow with the IS engaged but not for a long period of time. It's almost 6 pounds. A shoulder rig is not an option for me.
I will get a second monopod for a Canon XF100 I recently purchased.
I'm still getting used to the XF300 although I have used the XHA1s for 3 years and prior to that a XL1s
Can't imagine how the pros do it with those massive ENG cameras...time to hit the gym big time!
E

Jody Arnott · January 5th, 2013, 12:26 AM

Thanks for all of the info guys. Really appreciated.

This decision is proving to be ridiculously difficult to make. While I'm sold on the XF300 on every other aspect, the size/weight puts me off due to the frequent run and gun handheld shooting I do.

The Sony PMW-100 is tempting for its size, but it's only single sensor and there's no word on IQ yet.
The Panny AC90 is tempting because of it's size too, but no 4:2:2 and the chips are only 1/4, so low light would be an issue.
Then there's the Sony EA50, but I don't think the large sensor would suit my typical shooting style.

Then the Panasonic AG160 and JVC HM600, both of which have the same size/weight issues as the Xf300.

I've been going over and over these cameras for a month now and I don't know if I'm any closer to knowing which one I want to buy. Unfortunately where I live there isn't anywhere I can easily go to view the cameras in person.

Ah well.. I'll keep at it.. hopefully I'll have made up my mind before 2014 :D

If anyone has any suggestions of cameras I haven't mentioned, feel free!

Jack D. Hubbard · January 5th, 2013, 11:37 PM

The XF300/305 has some weight, but honestly not a lot and the video quality is great. How long are you hand holding the camera and what kind of shooting. I find it works very well overall, and I also use an XF100 because of the compatible codecs. You cannot beat the image quality at 50 mbps.
Jack Hubbard

Jody Arnott · January 6th, 2013, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack D. Hubbard

The XF300/305 has some weight, but honestly not a lot and the video quality is great. How long are you hand holding the camera and what kind of shooting. I find it works very well overall, and I also use an XF100 because of the compatible codecs. You cannot beat the image quality at 50 mbps.
Jack Hubbard

Some shoots I need to be on my feet handholding the camera all day. The XA10 is great for this but I need something better.

Al Bergstein · January 6th, 2013, 09:42 AM

Checkout the video on the multirg. Support systems for DSLR/ DV/ HDV/ Camcoders
i've tried a few rigs now and keep coming back to this to augment all day shoots on the xf305. It can fast mount to a tripod, and folds up so when i take it off the shoulder, i can easily walk through a crowd with it carried from the xf handle. But true shoulder mounts are always going to be steadier for longer. Just a question if you are physically up to a shouldermount for long days. I am not wanting to carry that weight all day anymore. The flexibilty of the dvtech rig has allowed me a longer work day, when needed.

No financial interest in it.

January 3rd, 2013, 08:26 PM	#1
Jody Arnott Major Player Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 747	XF300 Weight/Handling Hey guys, I know I've been asking a lot of questions recently, but I think I've almost decided on my new camera. Just deciding between the XF300, JVC HM600 and PMW-200 now. Anyway, I'm after some info from XF300 owners who use the camera for run-and-gun shooting. I shoot a lot of events that require me to be on my feet running around with the camera hand-held all day. Is the XF300 too heavy for this type of work? Keep in mind I'm coming from an XA10, so I'm not used to heavy cameras. Thanks for any info :)

January 3rd, 2013, 08:36 PM	#2
Martin Catt Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Colony TX Posts: 327	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling Most likely, you --WILL-- need some kind of shoulder mount if you aren't shooting tripod-based. I went from an XL2 to the XF300. I loved going totally digital (no tape), but without the tape transport mechanism, the XF300 is shorter and doesn't have the integral shoulder rest. As a result, even after adding a shoulder mount, the XF300 is kinda front heavy. You can counteract this by adding a battery mount to the rear of the shoulder mount to counterbalance the rig. Martin __________________ Canon XF300, Canon 5DMkII, Canon XL2, Rolls MX422 mixer, Zoom H4N, AT899 lavs, AT2020's, Azden SGM 1X shotgun, Manfrotto 501 head on 351 tripod

January 4th, 2013, 01:46 AM	#3
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling The XF300 is surprisingly light for the bulk. I have an XF105 & find that small but in comparison an XA10 is tiny.

January 4th, 2013, 07:27 AM	#5
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling Don't just think about shoulder-mounting the camera - I tend to shoot a lot with the camera tucked into my side which is no weight at all. If you need eye-level, it's easy to just raise it and use the eyepiece... __________________ TV Director / Cameraman

January 4th, 2013, 07:40 AM	#6
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,557	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling The XF300 is a magnificant camcorder. Look at the video I just posted on Underwater Over land. It was shot with the XF300 handheld. This is a truely professional camcorder. The IS is top notch. Bob

January 4th, 2013, 11:29 AM	#8
John M. Kim Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 38	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling The Canon XF300 is a very nice camera. However I agree that it's ridiculously front-heavy. I tried it out at length and my right wrist was seriously aching. I've shot primarily with the XF100, HVX200, HPX170, and some EX1, and those were all noticeably easier to handhold, at least to me. Eventually I settled on the PMW200, which is reasonably comfortable to hold for long stretches. (I use a monopod to provide relief when needed.)

January 4th, 2013, 11:52 AM	#9
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling I would respectfully disagree about the XF300 being front heavy by itself. I find it is very balanced although not light like an HMC-150. If I have my palm in the side handle, left hand thumb under the front corner and the viewfinder against my face it is very easy to shoot. With the IS turned on you can be very steady even at the tele end of the lens. I would advise to try all of these cameras first before making a decision as it varies a lot between designers. You have a tough choice ahead! To me it comes down to colorimetry, codec and handling. All areas where the XF300 excels. Light gathering is where it is a little weaker than the others.

January 4th, 2013, 07:53 PM	#10
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling Well, I own the 305 and 105, and a 5D. Yes, the 305 is not ideal for an all day run and gun, but, I would not trade it for a heavier shoulder mount camera, but wish it had a built in shoulder mount. . I also always bring a monopod with feet with me. This helps a great deal, and I also have a shoulder mount rig. There are lots of great ones out there. I like the DVTec rig. Folds up small and also lets me get the damn thing off my shoulder quickly, often. Anyway, I do also hand hold for long amounts of time, sometimes it works, and the ability to swivel the LCD around allows me to get the camera into any old position quickly. I do shoot it mounted on my shoulder, as I only use the LCD, not the EVF. It works great. It's slightly front heavy but is easy to get used to, and actually I find it works great. I agree with Tim's assessments above. Low light is the weakness of this camera compared to a DSLR, but you already know that (G). Would I buy it again. Absolutely. It's picture quality is just outstanding, and the ergonomics are very good, with some agravations (don't they all). Even after a lot of shooting on it, the 105 and the 5D Mkiii I find that if I really want "broadcast quality" on a run and gun shoot, I grab the 305. If I need to work more stealthy or need stills, I grab the 5D. Here's two different run and guns 5D run and gun with a wired mic directly into the camera. Jamestown SKlallam Tribal Wood Carvers on Vimeo 305 hand held in low stage light (Cheryl was moving all over the place) Cheryl Strayed on The Port Townsend Writer's Conference on Vimeo

January 4th, 2013, 10:57 PM	#11
Erick Perdomo Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 139	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling I use a Manfrotto 561BHDV1 Video Monopod with the Canon XF300 and I couldn't survive without it! I also use a Sachtler ACE.. sometimes hand held can create a nice flow with the IS engaged but not for a long period of time. It's almost 6 pounds. A shoulder rig is not an option for me. I will get a second monopod for a Canon XF100 I recently purchased. I'm still getting used to the XF300 although I have used the XHA1s for 3 years and prior to that a XL1s Can't imagine how the pros do it with those massive ENG cameras...time to hit the gym big time! E __________________ http://www.fandangovideo.com Canon C100 mark 2, Canon XF300 & XF100, Canon 90D, Sony a6400,Ronin S etc etc

January 5th, 2013, 12:26 AM	#12
Jody Arnott Major Player Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 747	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling Thanks for all of the info guys. Really appreciated. This decision is proving to be ridiculously difficult to make. While I'm sold on the XF300 on every other aspect, the size/weight puts me off due to the frequent run and gun handheld shooting I do. The Sony PMW-100 is tempting for its size, but it's only single sensor and there's no word on IQ yet. The Panny AC90 is tempting because of it's size too, but no 4:2:2 and the chips are only 1/4, so low light would be an issue. Then there's the Sony EA50, but I don't think the large sensor would suit my typical shooting style. Then the Panasonic AG160 and JVC HM600, both of which have the same size/weight issues as the Xf300. I've been going over and over these cameras for a month now and I don't know if I'm any closer to knowing which one I want to buy. Unfortunately where I live there isn't anywhere I can easily go to view the cameras in person. Ah well.. I'll keep at it.. hopefully I'll have made up my mind before 2014 :D If anyone has any suggestions of cameras I haven't mentioned, feel free!

January 5th, 2013, 11:37 PM	#13
Jack D. Hubbard Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Menlo Park, CA Posts: 342	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling The XF300/305 has some weight, but honestly not a lot and the video quality is great. How long are you hand holding the camera and what kind of shooting. I find it works very well overall, and I also use an XF100 because of the compatible codecs. You cannot beat the image quality at 50 mbps. Jack Hubbard

January 6th, 2013, 09:42 AM	#15
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	Re: XF300 Weight/Handling Checkout the video on the multirg. Support systems for DSLR/ DV/ HDV/ Camcoders i've tried a few rigs now and keep coming back to this to augment all day shoots on the xf305. It can fast mount to a tripod, and folds up so when i take it off the shoulder, i can easily walk through a crowd with it carried from the xf handle. But true shoulder mounts are always going to be steadier for longer. Just a question if you are physically up to a shouldermount for long days. I am not wanting to carry that weight all day anymore. The flexibilty of the dvtech rig has allowed me a longer work day, when needed. No financial interest in it.