Xh-a1 & Hv30 Using 30p Not Mixing In Fcp
 

Here is my problem.

I have XH-A1 filming in 30p and HV30 in 30p using FCP.
However, when I go to mix them together in a multiclip sequence, I get the error that says I am using different codecs.

When I check the format properties of each clip, the XH-A1 has 108030p listed under compressor while the HV30 has 108060i. Why is this different?

Normally I down convert on ingest so I have not experienced this problem in the past. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jonathan Schwartz
CA Video Productions

I am going to be guessing you are using FCP 5 since you wouldn't have this problem in 6. So what I think you have to is to convert the 1080/30p to 1080/60i in order to get it to mix well with the HV30, or upgrade to FCP 6 with the multi format timeline technology.

Nope - using FCS2
 

Louis,

Sorry, I am using FCP v. 6.0.4. I can drop them in the same timeline, but FCP requires the clips to be the same codec in order to create a multiclip.


Jon

Guessing a little here as I shoot with the HV20 and not the HV30....

The HV30 shoots 30P in a 60i wrapper... I think you have to pull down
the 30P out of the wrapper first... then the footage will report as 30P...

At least thats the way I have to do 24P on the HV20, it doesn't do 30P...

How?
 

Ray,

How do I do this?

Jon

Hi Jonathan,

Did you use the same Capture Preset? FWIW I've been editing with the A1 and HV30 set at 30p and haven't gotten any warning. I capture with the default HDV 60i preset.

I use Cineform for the pull down... there are other ways...

My understanding is you can ingest at 60i for both of your camera's but thats not
the same as 30P...

PReset
 

Joel,,
Yes I captured both with the same preset Firewire 108060i Basic. Are you doing multiclips with the footage? I can edit them together fine. That is not a problem, but FCP will not let me make a multiclip.

Jon

Jonathan, I may be leading you down the wrong path....

I'm now wondering if your HV30 was set for 30p... again I don't have the HV30, I do have the HV20...

from what I read the HV30 shoots, 24p,30p or 60i


if you do find that the footage that you are presently working with is indeed 60i and you still need to mix it with 30p you might try and de-interlace the 60i footage....

The problem here isn't the frame rate. It's the codec or compressor. The HV30 is brought in differently even if you use the same Easy Setup in FCP. I bring mine in as HDV 1080p24 but the HV30 automatically reverts to something else at 29.97. Now, I know this case is slightly different than yours, but what you need to do is drop all of the HV30 files in Compressor, and create a preset that makes it the same codec as the XHA1 files. It's a pain. But it's worth it if you're doing MultiCam. Right now, I'm compressing about 3 hrs of footage and just letting it run all night.

It's pretty similar to this Compressor Workflow:

Final Cut Pro 6: 1080p24 workflow for Canon HV20 camcorder

but you'll need to change the codec to what fits you're needs.

Make sense?

What if 60i
 

What if both streams are running at 60i, would they match up in FCP for multicam?

Jon Schwartz

I don't know why this is different but that's the problem with why multiclip won't work. You need to get them to be the same thing. I would convert the HV30 to get it to recognize as 108030p. like I said, I can't explain why it's not already though.

Here's a screengrab of what i'm working on right now, two HV30's and an XH-A1 in use:

http://softcitylights.com/images/fcp_screengrab.png

But yeah, 24p there.

Hi Jon,

Did you ever get this figured out? I'm suddenly dealing with the same issue. Like you I shoot with Canon XHA1's at 30F and HV30's at 30P. When I capture them into FCP 6 the HV30's show up as 1080i60. The XHA1's show up as 108030p. This happens regardless what camera is used for capture, the A1 or the 30. I've even tried Capture Magic HD and had the same results.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...1&d=1228804353

This is fine except for when I want to create a multiclip. I get a warning that the codec types are not the same and therefore multiclip isn't possible. I am shooting 30p and 30F mostly to avoid the extra step of running all of the HV30 footage through compressor for a reverse telecine when shooting both at 24. Am I doomed to always have to run half my footage through Compressor in order to do a multiclip? And don't even think of trying to create a reference movie from the sequence that just may have the same codec type - HDV always has to conform so it takes eons for it to export even if all you want is a reference movie rather than one that is self contained. I miss the predictable sd days...

Here's what I've decided to do for now - I'm converting the HV30 material that I need for the muliticlip as a HDV - 1080p30 file in Compressor. I take a hit with a compression cycle but until I figure out a faster more efficient workflow this will have to do. I tried exporting the HV30 footage as ProRes - 1080p30 but that gave me the same 'not the same codec type' error, so it has to be HDV. The cons are the quality hit and the time it takes, but I make that up in the space requirements. I run through up to 15 hours of captures every week so whatever I decide to do it has to be fast and efficient. Below is a still of some artifacts that occur as result of the 1080i60 to 1080p30 HDV conversion. (This is a screen capture blown up 400% in two viewers.) The left is the converted file - notice the blockiness in some of the nondescript areas. At 100% they are not noticeable.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...1&d=1228851299

What about 24f (XhA1) and 24p(hv20) multiclip? After I convert the HV footage into 23.97, the XH clip turns into 29.97 (in the multiclip) making it impossible to synch both. What? Why? How do I get around this?

Hi Erick,

Lately I've been shooting 24f with the A1 and 24p with 30. For Multiclip I convert the HV30 24p HDV (which is in a 60i wrapper) to true 24p HDV with a Reverse Telecine in Compressor. You'd probably get slightly better results converting both to ProRes but I don't have that kind of disk space. My droplet is here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...1&d=1244005321

Name: HV30 HDV 60i-24p to HDV 24p
Description:
File Extension: mov
Estimated file size: 10.48 GB/hour of source
Audio: multi-track passthrough
Video Encoder
Format: QT
Width: (100% of source)
Height: (100% of source)
Selected: 1440 x 1080
Pixel aspect ratio: HDV 1080i (16:9)
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: 23.976
Frame Controls On:
Retiming: (Fast) Nearest Frame
Resize Filter: Linear Filter
Deinterlace Filter: Reverse Telecine
Adaptive Details: Off
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Progressive
Codec Type: HDV 1080p24
Multi-pass: Off, frame reorder: On
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 50
Min. Spatial quality: 0
Temporal quality: 50
Min. temporal quality: 0

I have shot 30f on my XH-A1 for a while now. I started before Apple created a 1080p30 Easy Setup in Final Cut 6. Back then, I had a hard time figuring out what settings to use. After asking a few people on the forum what I should do, the consensus was to use the 1080i60 Firewire Basic Easy Setup.

When I captured the 30f footage from my XH-A1 using the 1080i60 Firewire Basic Easy Setup it appeared as 1080i60 in the browser (under "Compressor"). When played back and exported the footage was in fact progressive 30f, although it listed the compressor as 1080i60.

It was explained to me on the forum, that the 30f footage is stored on the tape at 1080i60, but when viewed is progressive (this was my experience). Unlike dealing with 24p/f, there is no pull down added to the footage. Since HDV can only be recorded to tape at 1080i60, dealing with 24f footage is a problem for the HV-30, because the camera does not flag the added frames, making pull down removal a little more complicated. 30f captured using the 1080i60 Firewire Basic setting and edited in a 1080i60 timeline eliminates the need to transcode the footage, which is a very good thing.

I just got my hands on a HV-30 and am running a couple tests of my own to see if I am right. I suspect that your problem is using Apple's 1080p30 Easy Setup, rather than the 1080i60 Firewire Basic. I will keep you posted.

Hugh

I finished running my tests mixing footage from my XH-A1 and HV-30 this morning. All footage was shot at 30f/p and captured using the 1080i60 Firewire Basic Easy Setup in Final Cut Pro. As I suspected, there was no problem placing the captured footage from the different cameras in a 1080i60 sequence (using Final Cut Pro 6). This makes it pretty clear to me that the problems you were having mixing footage stems from the 1080p30 Easy Setup you used to capture your footage. My suggestion is to ignore this Easy Setup and capture all of your 30f/p footage using the 1080i60 Firewire Basic Easy Setup. The footage is marked "1080i60" under the "Compressor" section of the browser, but the footage is clearly progressive (image below).

If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Hugh

Thanks for the tests. one question:
Did you try to make them a multiclip?
if this works (i currently don't have access to both cameras to test myself...) it would be great!!!

I just put a multiclip sequence together using the footage from both cameras. The clips combined with no trouble at all. They share the same codec, frame size, and rate, so mixing the footage is no longer an issue. As I said before, I suspect that the trouble mentioned in the 1st post of this thread stems from using Final Cut Pro's 1080p30 Easy Setup. If you ever use both cameras for a project capture your 30f/p footage from both cameras using 1080i60 Firewire Basic.

I pasted a link below to the thread that initially helped guide me in the right direction a couple of years ago.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/non-linea...final-cut.html

Hugh

I experienced a similar thing with Windows. I captured both the XH-A1 and HV30 shot in 30p with HDVsplit and imported into Adobe Premiere. The HV30 footage showed up in Premiere as 60i, and I had to right click on each HV30 clip and select interpret footage and select progressive.
Seems something on the HV30 isn't flagging 30p for the various NLEs.