Optics not sealed at DVinfo.net

Bo Sundvall · July 9th, 2009, 02:06 PM

Hi

Last weekend I went on a fishing/film trip to the swedish mountains. During the period I was outside filming there was a lot of mosquitos and even more very small (0,5-1mm) annoying flies. And with a lot I mean A LOT. By the time I had (as always) my UV filter mounted and also a graduated grey filter. The next day when I inspected my´filters I saw a small spot which I at first thought was on the gray filter as that was mounted in front. I unscrew it and the spot was still there. It wasn't even on the UV filter but inside the front elements of the lens. And I had really a small chock when i discovered that there was a small FLY INSIDE THE LENS HOUSE!!
I still have hard to beleive it but it was there. There was also a fly inside the IAF sensor house. Now the flies are gone but the spot is still on the inside of the lens, inside the lens house. As I can see it's not on the flat front glass but further inside, probably on one of the last non moving lenses as the spot is on the same position when I zoom in or out. My theory is that the spot is from another fly that was smashed to the lens when I zoomed out to wide.

I'm absolutely shure that the spot inside was not there before the trip as I cleared my UV filter and inspected the lenses before the trip and the spot is so easy to see. There is also no way that I could have made the spot myself as it's inside the optical house and I have never even thought of dismounting it.

Has anybody of you ever heard of this? I have always thought that the lens house is sealed but now I know better. It fells a little shaky. If a fly can come inside it, there will definately be dust inside which will be very hard to get rid of. There is no way you can do it yourself and a wild guess is that it will be very expensive to let an authorized repairman do it, if it's even possible.

The good thing is that I don't think its visible during playback, but as I take very good care of my camcorder (it's a hobby tool that I saved a long time to afford), it's annoying to know that it's not perfect.

Regards,

/Bo

Chris Soucy · July 9th, 2009, 05:42 PM

Stories of dust/ particles making their way into the lens housing are reasonably common, tho' not an every day sort of occurance.

If the A1 lens is constructed in the same fashion as an XL1s lens (and I have no reason to believe it is different), the outer casing of the lens carries the controls, servo sensors for same, IAF sensor and a front element.

Inside the casing is another sealed unit carrying the primary optics & servo's, which is connected to the outer casing by a ribbon cable.

If you look closely at the front element of the lens you will observe 4 small black screws around it's circumference.

If you were feeling exceedingly adventurous, had a professional grade set of miniature screwdrivers which fitted the screw heads perfectly, and were thoroughly prepared for a possible "Oh, sh#t" moment, you could try undoing them and seeing if that freed the front element, allowing it or the front of the internal module (or both) to be carefully cleaned.

A bit of a blow through with a can of compressed dry air wouldn't go amiss, either.

Of course, I'm not suggesting you do so, mind, just theorising.

Think next trip you'd better take the bug spray!

CS

PS: Not that I'm egging you on or anything, but I can now confirm that removing the exact same screws on a XL1s lens does, indeed, allow the front element to be removed, giving access to the rear of it and the front element of the optics module.

You will find that a pair of needle nosed tweezers is invaluable, as the screws are minute (a #0 Phillips head driver required).

Better to rack the zoom before starting, so that the front element of the optics module is as close to the front element as possible, it's a long way back otherwise.

Make sure you have plenty of light and perform the removal/ cleaning on a light coloured hard suface on a hard surfaced floor (kitchen table?). Those screws, if dropped, are sods to find!

Ensure you have checked the front element orientation BEFORE removing it, so that it goes back exactly as it came off.

Make sure the necessary cleaning materials are to hand before starting - professional lens cleaners pretty well mandatory.

Don't drop anything (hair, dandruff etc) into the lens whilst the front element is off, best to invert it and give it a good blast from a dry air can before closing it up.

Don't mis - thread the screws when replacing - the tolerances are incredibly tight. Back them off to ensure correct thread seating before screwing them in. Do not fully tighten till all 4 have been fitted.

Do make sure you have a steady set of hands, maybe a stiff G & T before you start!

There you go, a complete doddle.

Not that I'm suggesting you do it, mind. Just theorising.

Bo Sundvall · July 10th, 2009, 05:26 AM

Thanks for the info, Chris!

Actually, I've thought of those screws myself. I consider myself well prepared for the operation as I'm experienced in handling small devices in electronic circuits and small mecanic devices. Optics are another deal, but with proper caution, and of course your suggestion of a G&T, :-)), i will try to open up the optics and clean it from the inside. One thing that still worries me is the fact that the fly I saw might be left inside somewhere as I hardly can imagine that it found the way out by itself. If I can't find it while the front elements are dismounted, it might have got further in to the optics, but that's another story of course.

I'll give a report when I'm finished.

By the way, is there anyone out there who has a (copy) of a service manual for the camcorder or a schematic of some kind which describes the inner side of the XH-A1?

Regards,

/Bo

Chris Soucy · July 10th, 2009, 09:31 PM

leaving the front element off over night with a piece of whatever those flies eat adjacent and see if it tempts it out, tho' it occured to me you'd probably find a mouse had taken up residence instead!

(a little piece of Kiwi humour!).

Think all the manuals/schematics nowadays are on a Canon Japan server, with only authorised technicians having access, unless someone's found a hack around.

Do report back how it works out, may be able to persuade CH to sticky it ("HD camera maintenance for intrepid paupers" perhaps? Maybe not.)

CS

Dennis Murphy · July 12th, 2009, 03:21 PM

If you do venture forth, take some photos of the epic journey. I'd be very interested to see the process.

Bo Sundvall · July 13th, 2009, 02:18 AM

Hi

I havn't done the operation yet. I still dont know if I dare to do it, but if I do it I will post pictures of it. Another reason I havn't done it yet is that I don't think the spot is visible on the finished film and I can't justify to fix something that isn't (really) broken.

/Bo

Chris Soucy · July 13th, 2009, 05:11 AM

You may not be able to see it on this footage, but if you can see the spots on the lens, it'll be there, sooner or later.

One thing I forgot to say earlier - before you do it, make sure you have a filter attached to the lens - it makes getting a grip on that front element a lot easier.

Yes, I've checked, the screws can be removed with a filter attached (in fact, I did just that with my XL1s lens).

Keep us posted.

CS

Jonathan Shaw · July 13th, 2009, 04:01 PM

May the force be with you... ; )

Good luck, interested to hear how it goes.

J

Michael Hutson · July 14th, 2009, 07:31 PM

"I'm not a doctor, but I slept at the Holiday Inn last night" type of thread.

Bo Sundvall · July 15th, 2009, 03:48 AM

Hi

Yesterday I did the operation, dismounted the lens and cleaned the inside of the front element. It all went without problems and the patient is now completely recovered. The whole story is here:

Canon_1

Chris, I did not follow your tip on a G&T. That would probably messed up my camcorder even more. :-)

Regards,

/Bo

Dennis Murphy · July 15th, 2009, 03:01 PM

Sheesh, that little fly was bigger than I expected. I seriously would not have thought that something that big could find its way in.
That's scary.

Cheers for the photos.

Chris Soucy · July 15th, 2009, 04:23 PM

Yeah, that's a heck of a big critter to get into the lens.

Interesting that there's now 8 screws to get that element off.

Very well presented.

Wonder how many plaintive cries there will be henceforth asking about replacement sources for lost screws?

Thanks for keeping us updated.

CS

Jonathan Shaw · July 15th, 2009, 07:16 PM

My god! I would have never thought that fly could have got in there!

Actually looked like quite an easy process...

Bo Sundvall · July 16th, 2009, 12:50 AM

I was also very surprised when I first saw the fly inside the optics. Perhaps you know the feeling when something odd happends: I had to look several times before I really could believe that it was an insect flying around INSIDE the lens house. My conclusion is that things that comes in can not come in from the front. The front lens element has a tight fit and is more or less sealed. The only way in is either from the AF connection (but as I could tell that way is also closed) or from the back of the camera where there must be some kind of opening or, as I wrote in another post, from the underside of the camcorder where I can see a small opening between the iris ring and the camera house.

/Bo

July 9th, 2009, 02:06 PM	#1
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Optics not sealed Hi Last weekend I went on a fishing/film trip to the swedish mountains. During the period I was outside filming there was a lot of mosquitos and even more very small (0,5-1mm) annoying flies. And with a lot I mean A LOT. By the time I had (as always) my UV filter mounted and also a graduated grey filter. The next day when I inspected my´filters I saw a small spot which I at first thought was on the gray filter as that was mounted in front. I unscrew it and the spot was still there. It wasn't even on the UV filter but inside the front elements of the lens. And I had really a small chock when i discovered that there was a small FLY INSIDE THE LENS HOUSE!! I still have hard to beleive it but it was there. There was also a fly inside the IAF sensor house. Now the flies are gone but the spot is still on the inside of the lens, inside the lens house. As I can see it's not on the flat front glass but further inside, probably on one of the last non moving lenses as the spot is on the same position when I zoom in or out. My theory is that the spot is from another fly that was smashed to the lens when I zoomed out to wide. I'm absolutely shure that the spot inside was not there before the trip as I cleared my UV filter and inspected the lenses before the trip and the spot is so easy to see. There is also no way that I could have made the spot myself as it's inside the optical house and I have never even thought of dismounting it. Has anybody of you ever heard of this? I have always thought that the lens house is sealed but now I know better. It fells a little shaky. If a fly can come inside it, there will definately be dust inside which will be very hard to get rid of. There is no way you can do it yourself and a wild guess is that it will be very expensive to let an authorized repairman do it, if it's even possible. The good thing is that I don't think its visible during playback, but as I take very good care of my camcorder (it's a hobby tool that I saved a long time to afford), it's annoying to know that it's not perfect. Regards, /Bo

July 9th, 2009, 05:42 PM	#2
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi Bo................. Stories of dust/ particles making their way into the lens housing are reasonably common, tho' not an every day sort of occurance. If the A1 lens is constructed in the same fashion as an XL1s lens (and I have no reason to believe it is different), the outer casing of the lens carries the controls, servo sensors for same, IAF sensor and a front element. Inside the casing is another sealed unit carrying the primary optics & servo's, which is connected to the outer casing by a ribbon cable. If you look closely at the front element of the lens you will observe 4 small black screws around it's circumference. If you were feeling exceedingly adventurous, had a professional grade set of miniature screwdrivers which fitted the screw heads perfectly, and were thoroughly prepared for a possible "Oh, sh#t" moment, you could try undoing them and seeing if that freed the front element, allowing it or the front of the internal module (or both) to be carefully cleaned. A bit of a blow through with a can of compressed dry air wouldn't go amiss, either. Of course, I'm not suggesting you do so, mind, just theorising. Think next trip you'd better take the bug spray! CS PS: Not that I'm egging you on or anything, but I can now confirm that removing the exact same screws on a XL1s lens does, indeed, allow the front element to be removed, giving access to the rear of it and the front element of the optics module. You will find that a pair of needle nosed tweezers is invaluable, as the screws are minute (a #0 Phillips head driver required). Better to rack the zoom before starting, so that the front element of the optics module is as close to the front element as possible, it's a long way back otherwise. Make sure you have plenty of light and perform the removal/ cleaning on a light coloured hard suface on a hard surfaced floor (kitchen table?). Those screws, if dropped, are sods to find! Ensure you have checked the front element orientation BEFORE removing it, so that it goes back exactly as it came off. Make sure the necessary cleaning materials are to hand before starting - professional lens cleaners pretty well mandatory. Don't drop anything (hair, dandruff etc) into the lens whilst the front element is off, best to invert it and give it a good blast from a dry air can before closing it up. Don't mis - thread the screws when replacing - the tolerances are incredibly tight. Back them off to ensure correct thread seating before screwing them in. Do not fully tighten till all 4 have been fitted. Do make sure you have a steady set of hands, maybe a stiff G & T before you start! There you go, a complete doddle. Not that I'm suggesting you do it, mind. Just theorising. Last edited by Chris Soucy; July 9th, 2009 at 07:41 PM. Reason: ++Update

July 10th, 2009, 09:31 PM	#4
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	I would suggest............. leaving the front element off over night with a piece of whatever those flies eat adjacent and see if it tempts it out, tho' it occured to me you'd probably find a mouse had taken up residence instead! (a little piece of Kiwi humour!). Think all the manuals/schematics nowadays are on a Canon Japan server, with only authorised technicians having access, unless someone's found a hack around. Do report back how it works out, may be able to persuade CH to sticky it ("HD camera maintenance for intrepid paupers" perhaps? Maybe not.) CS

July 12th, 2009, 03:21 PM	#5
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	If you do venture forth, take some photos of the epic journey. I'd be very interested to see the process. __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

July 13th, 2009, 05:11 AM	#7
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi................. You may not be able to see it on this footage, but if you can see the spots on the lens, it'll be there, sooner or later. One thing I forgot to say earlier - before you do it, make sure you have a filter attached to the lens - it makes getting a grip on that front element a lot easier. Yes, I've checked, the screws can be removed with a filter attached (in fact, I did just that with my XL1s lens). Keep us posted. CS

July 10th, 2009, 05:26 AM	#3
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Thanks for the info, Chris! Actually, I've thought of those screws myself. I consider myself well prepared for the operation as I'm experienced in handling small devices in electronic circuits and small mecanic devices. Optics are another deal, but with proper caution, and of course your suggestion of a G&T, :-)), i will try to open up the optics and clean it from the inside. One thing that still worries me is the fact that the fly I saw might be left inside somewhere as I hardly can imagine that it found the way out by itself. If I can't find it while the front elements are dismounted, it might have got further in to the optics, but that's another story of course. I'll give a report when I'm finished. By the way, is there anyone out there who has a (copy) of a service manual for the camcorder or a schematic of some kind which describes the inner side of the XH-A1? Regards, /Bo

July 13th, 2009, 02:18 AM	#6
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Hi I havn't done the operation yet. I still dont know if I dare to do it, but if I do it I will post pictures of it. Another reason I havn't done it yet is that I don't think the spot is visible on the finished film and I can't justify to fix something that isn't (really) broken. /Bo

July 13th, 2009, 04:01 PM	#8
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	May the force be with you... ; ) Good luck, interested to hear how it goes. J __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

July 14th, 2009, 07:31 PM	#9
Michael Hutson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 249	"I'm not a doctor, but I slept at the Holiday Inn last night" type of thread.

July 15th, 2009, 03:48 AM	#10
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	The patient survived Hi Yesterday I did the operation, dismounted the lens and cleaned the inside of the front element. It all went without problems and the patient is now completely recovered. The whole story is here: Canon_1 Chris, I did not follow your tip on a G&T. That would probably messed up my camcorder even more. :-) Regards, /Bo

July 15th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#11
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	Sheesh, that little fly was bigger than I expected. I seriously would not have thought that something that big could find its way in. That's scary. Cheers for the photos. __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

July 15th, 2009, 04:23 PM	#12
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Well done............ Yeah, that's a heck of a big critter to get into the lens. Interesting that there's now 8 screws to get that element off. Very well presented. Wonder how many plaintive cries there will be henceforth asking about replacement sources for lost screws? Thanks for keeping us updated. CS

July 15th, 2009, 07:16 PM	#13
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	My god! I would have never thought that fly could have got in there! Actually looked like quite an easy process... __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

July 16th, 2009, 12:50 AM	#14
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	I was also very surprised when I first saw the fly inside the optics. Perhaps you know the feeling when something odd happends: I had to look several times before I really could believe that it was an insect flying around INSIDE the lens house. My conclusion is that things that comes in can not come in from the front. The front lens element has a tight fit and is more or less sealed. The only way in is either from the AF connection (but as I could tell that way is also closed) or from the back of the camera where there must be some kind of opening or, as I wrote in another post, from the underside of the camcorder where I can see a small opening between the iris ring and the camera house. /Bo