Kidney For Sale: $3999 - Must sell by Oct

Heath McKnight · July 26th, 2006, 02:05 PM

ps-Small bit of advice, everyone, test the camera personally before buying. Don't make the mistake I did with my HD10 3 years ago. Though that's an extreme example, I know, make sure that this camera is right for you.

I personally can't wait to get a production model to put through the paces!

heath

Heath McKnight · July 26th, 2006, 02:20 PM

I agree, Boyd. I think Sony will do good, along with Canon, as long as they don't somehow make HDV's vertical resolution be 240 lines! (wink)

But seriously, it's what tool works for you. For me personally, anything from a DVX100 series (first gen, A, or B) to an FX1/Z1 (my favorite), all the way up to an F900/F950, if I have the cash.

heath

Kevin Shaw · July 26th, 2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

They could drop the price on the FX1 and Z1 and still continue to do nicely, and who knows what else they may have up their sleeves?

Unless Sony has something dramatic up their sleeves, I'd say Canon's got their number. The Z1U in particular is in trouble: what price could Sony propose which would make people want to buy it? Okay, they could phase out the FX1 and sell the Z1U at FX1 prices, but even then it might be rough.

Heath McKnight · July 26th, 2006, 02:32 PM

I don't think so, because you still have loyal Sony users and a proven track record with the Z1/FX1 and the A1, too. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed, but I think there's enough users out there to not make a difference.

Besides, unless someone can do well with a sell of their Z1, it'll be tough for many to shell out or even justify spending a minimum of $4000 on a camera.

And, not to throw fuel on the fire, I think shooting in 24f and 50i and CineFrame 25 (in the Sony) look very, very similar. But that's my eye. (And I need glasses, wink!)

heath

Kevin Shaw · July 26th, 2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

...unless someone can do well with a sell of their Z1, it'll be tough for many to shell out or even justify spending a minimum of $4000 on a camera.

For people who already own the Sonys that's true, but for someone just moving into HD the Canons look like a clear winner. Better resolution, better zoom range, decent 24f mode and XLR inputs for $3999? That would be an easy choice over the Z1U unless Sony knocks at least $1000-1500 off their price.

Peter Ferling · July 26th, 2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

ps-Small bit of advice, everyone, test the camera personally before buying. Don't make the mistake I did with my HD10 3 years ago. Though that's an extreme example, I know, make sure that this camera is right for you.

I personally can't wait to get a production model to put through the paces!

heath

Good advice. If this camera actually performs as described, it's sold me. I'd certainly rent or test it with how I work. Until such time, I still have to rent the Sony's. (If I had to buy today, then I'd get the Z1U of course).

However, three months is within reach and worth the risk of waiting.

Heath McKnight · July 26th, 2006, 03:01 PM

I will add one thing...many people (even me, I'm sad to admit) thought that because the DVX100 and 100a was so powerful, the XL-series of minidv cameras would be toast. XL1s sales weren't affected too badly by the DVX, and when the XL2 came out, it kicked butt, too. Neither the XL2 nor the DVX seemed to hurt one another.

Competition is a healthy thing--we come out the winners when they come out with better cameras. When RED ships, that's proof positive of that statement!

heath

Holger Leonhard · July 26th, 2006, 03:07 PM

I guess the Z1 is not really in danger. The reason is the cam is used in countless production setups for Low Budget HD shoting, It has become a standard there. And countless DOPs know how to use and to get the best out of it. And nobody throws the cams away now because of canon. To keep compatible with this setups, e.g. for multicam shootings, a Z1 will always be replaced or expanded with another Z1, not a Canon, to keep compatible.
And also rental houses will keep on to hold Z1 for that reason.
Indie Film Makers of course will go to Canon - 24(25)F & cinegamma, combined with the easy to use HDV, no need to buy expensive P2 Cards - perfect! The Canon might become the new "DVX", but let´s see footage first.

Heath McKnight · July 26th, 2006, 03:34 PM

There will always be a place for any camera, pretty much. I once said the HD100 might be a Sony killer, but it didn't. I realize now that each camera does well with specific users.

As a filmmaker, I love the Z1 and though I'd love 24p in it, I shoot in 50i with CF25 and do a work-flow to 24p.

And, for the record, I've dug each camera, including the HVX200, though I've had about the same amount of time with that camera as I have with the XL H1.

hwm

Kevin Shaw · July 26th, 2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

There will always be a place for any camera, pretty much. I once said the HD100 might be a Sony killer, but it didn't. I realize now that each camera does well with specific users.

A fair point, but up until now there hasn't been any meaningful competition for the FX1/Z1U at a comparable price. The JVC HD100U is a completely different design which doesn't overlap with the Sonys for who would use it, and same goes for the HVX200. Now we have a camera with the same basic design of the Sonys but many better features at a very competitive price, so that's almost got to affect future Sony sales.

I know plenty of HD fence-sitters who might consider the Canon cameras the perfect motivation to buy new gear; probably more so than have bought HD gear to date. When we did the "World Record Wedding Video Event" in Sacramento in February, less than 10% of the participants brought HD cameras. If I owned a camera company, I'd be interested in that other 90%...

Ken Hodson · July 26th, 2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

As a filmmaker, I love the Z1 and though I'd love 24p in it, I shoot in 50i with CF25 and do a work-flow to 24p.
hwm

Not in the intention of off topic-ing, but CF25 and 50i are two seperate modes of shooting, are they not?

Heath McKnight · July 26th, 2006, 09:21 PM

Yes and no. 50i is 50i, but 50i with CineFrame 25 activated almost makes it 25p. Talk about it more here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=75

heath

Ken Hodson · July 26th, 2006, 09:32 PM

No it's okay, I got you. It was just your wording that confussed me. Carry on gang.

Mike Quinones · July 26th, 2006, 10:21 PM

I hear you guys all exited about the camera. Are there pictures any where to be seen? I surely would love to see them.

Chris Hurd · July 27th, 2006, 07:01 AM

Mike:

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images1.php
http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images2.php

July 26th, 2006, 02:05 PM	#16
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	ps-Small bit of advice, everyone, test the camera personally before buying. Don't make the mistake I did with my HD10 3 years ago. Though that's an extreme example, I know, make sure that this camera is right for you. I personally can't wait to get a production model to put through the paces! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 26th, 2006, 02:20 PM	#17
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I agree, Boyd. I think Sony will do good, along with Canon, as long as they don't somehow make HDV's vertical resolution be 240 lines! (wink) But seriously, it's what tool works for you. For me personally, anything from a DVX100 series (first gen, A, or B) to an FX1/Z1 (my favorite), all the way up to an F900/F950, if I have the cash. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 26th, 2006, 02:32 PM	#19
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I don't think so, because you still have loyal Sony users and a proven track record with the Z1/FX1 and the A1, too. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed, but I think there's enough users out there to not make a difference. Besides, unless someone can do well with a sell of their Z1, it'll be tough for many to shell out or even justify spending a minimum of $4000 on a camera. And, not to throw fuel on the fire, I think shooting in 24f and 50i and CineFrame 25 (in the Sony) look very, very similar. But that's my eye. (And I need glasses, wink!) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 26th, 2006, 03:01 PM	#22
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I will add one thing...many people (even me, I'm sad to admit) thought that because the DVX100 and 100a was so powerful, the XL-series of minidv cameras would be toast. XL1s sales weren't affected too badly by the DVX, and when the XL2 came out, it kicked butt, too. Neither the XL2 nor the DVX seemed to hurt one another. Competition is a healthy thing--we come out the winners when they come out with better cameras. When RED ships, that's proof positive of that statement! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 26th, 2006, 03:34 PM	#24
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	There will always be a place for any camera, pretty much. I once said the HD100 might be a Sony killer, but it didn't. I realize now that each camera does well with specific users. As a filmmaker, I love the Z1 and though I'd love 24p in it, I shoot in 50i with CF25 and do a work-flow to 24p. And, for the record, I've dug each camera, including the HVX200, though I've had about the same amount of time with that camera as I have with the XL H1. hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 26th, 2006, 03:07 PM	#23
Holger Leonhard Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 71	I guess the Z1 is not really in danger. The reason is the cam is used in countless production setups for Low Budget HD shoting, It has become a standard there. And countless DOPs know how to use and to get the best out of it. And nobody throws the cams away now because of canon. To keep compatible with this setups, e.g. for multicam shootings, a Z1 will always be replaced or expanded with another Z1, not a Canon, to keep compatible. And also rental houses will keep on to hold Z1 for that reason. Indie Film Makers of course will go to Canon - 24(25)F & cinegamma, combined with the easy to use HDV, no need to buy expensive P2 Cards - perfect! The Canon might become the new "DVX", but let´s see footage first.

July 26th, 2006, 09:21 PM	#27
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yes and no. 50i is 50i, but 50i with CineFrame 25 activated almost makes it 25p. Talk about it more here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=75 heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 26th, 2006, 09:32 PM	#28
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	No it's okay, I got you. It was just your wording that confussed me. Carry on gang. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 26th, 2006, 10:21 PM	#29
Mike Quinones Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Melreso Park IL. Posts: 89	Picture I hear you guys all exited about the camera. Are there pictures any where to be seen? I surely would love to see them.

July 27th, 2006, 07:01 AM	#30
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Mike: http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images1.php http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images2.php __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!