DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/)
-   -   Slow Motion on the A1 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/80820-slow-motion-a1.html)

John Huling December 2nd, 2006 10:58 AM

Slow Motion on the A1
 
Can anyone tell me how to shoot slo-mo on the Canon A1 or if it is possible? Where are some good how to resources I can get to today? I posted a question or two earlier..hoping someone can help
Thanks

Holly Rognan December 2nd, 2006 12:57 PM

You can't shoot slo-mo on the Canon. Only the HVX has (and the new JVC's) 60p.

What you can do is shoot in 60i have a shutter speed of 120 or a little higher. Then use twixtor or some other extrapolation program to get slow results. If you shoot in 60i you can use the 60 fields and have them deinterlaced for a fake 60p and 50% slow down. You can also convert the 60p to 24p for a little more slow motion. From what I have seen, this can look really good, but it does take some time to get it done. For extreme crisp slow-mo try twixor. I think Magic bullet does it as well, but don't quote me on it.

If you need slow motion, try the HVX200.

John Huling December 2nd, 2006 01:31 PM

Thanks Holly
I would not have time to goand get it today I am in So Vermont not alot of stores for 100 miles or so and certainly non that have pro stuff...all by mail/fed-x etc. Is twixtor a software program? Or can I do this on the camera?
Thanks loads for the help by the way

Holly Rognan December 2nd, 2006 01:37 PM

No, no, no. Like I said, you can't shoot slo-motion on the Canon.

The Canon is a pretty sweet camcorder, but it doesn't make sandwiches, take the kids to school, and clean up the house.

Twixtor is a plugin progam for many of the editing programs. It has many parameters that you can change to effectively extrapolate 'missing temporal pixels' and it essentially creates information that isn't there, based on genius algorithms. It isn't very intuitive, but it can work very well.

It isn't as good, obviously as shooting a higher framerate, but my experience is that if you spend enough time getting familiar with the settings you can get silky smooth results.

Hope this helps.

John Huling December 2nd, 2006 02:06 PM

Could you tell me which cameras do that are of the quality needed for commercial work? I would rather spend more now than later. How about the new Sony instead. 12 secs is better than none.

Thanks again Holly

Chuck Spaulding December 2nd, 2006 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Rognan
You can't shoot slo-mo on the Canon. Only the HVX has (and the new JVC's) 60p.

What you can do is shoot in 60i have a shutter speed of 120 or a little higher. Then use twixtor or some other extrapolation program to get slow results. If you shoot in 60i you can use the 60 fields and have them deinterlaced for a fake 60p and 50% slow down. You can also convert the 60p to 24p for a little more slow motion. From what I have seen, this can look really good, but it does take some time to get it done. For extreme crisp slow-mo try twixor. I think Magic bullet does it as well, but don't quote me on it.

If you need slow motion, try the HVX200.

This is an intersting thread because it really goes beyong the capability to do slow motion in the camera. Yes the HVX is the only camera that does variable frame rates, but it also uses a frame based codec [DVCProHD] and P2. It will not variable speed to tape.

And yes you can use Twixter and After Effects to do variable frame rates in post, but as said in your other thread regarding this I'm not sure if they would work with HDV.

So determining the right camera to give you the slow motion your looking for also may require you to decide on whether you post HDV natively or use an intermediate codec to convert to a frame based solution. If your editing with FCP I don't believe you have that chioce.

I don't know about Twixter but AE doesn't work with m2t streams and just because there's a plug in for FCP [Twixter] doesn't mean it works with them either.

John Huling December 2nd, 2006 02:44 PM

The "night scenes" of NYC I saw posted had slow motion in them. It was supposedly shot with the A1. I have Vegas 7 but I can go to FCP if I need to. Nothing like waiting till the last minute to find all this out. I was at a directors meeting all day yesterday so I did not have the time to check it all out. I unfortunately had just assumed (big mistake it looks like) that I could shoot in HD and down convert for DVD distribution now and do HD later. All of course with slow motion used alot in scenes. It is something that was requested at the last minute...ahh the music business

John Huling December 2nd, 2006 02:52 PM

By the way sorry to have ended up with two threads...was not my intent. I am just learning how this forum GUI works. Really appreciate the help.

Simon Dean December 2nd, 2006 02:56 PM

I'm getting between this and your other thread now...

I agree with Holly, in that if you want real slow motion then do 60i, deinterlace and go down to 24fps. I think the NYC shots just did regular slow down in the NLE though - in Vegas 7 you can do this with frame blending. It looks okay if you only slow a bit, otherwise it doesn't look like proper slo mo as you simply don't have the frames.

I tried the Sony 12 sec thing on one of their handycams and it was awful - you need tons of light.

What you said about shooting HD and converting for DVD does work - it's just that there are a couple fo steps inbetween. And personally I'd use an intermediate codec to do your editing on...

John Huling December 2nd, 2006 03:10 PM

Thanks Simon Any suggestions for a CODEC?

Holly Rognan December 2nd, 2006 03:16 PM

If all you are interested in is slow motion then one your timeline slow the footage down.

That simple.

If you want high quality results use third party plugins.

If you want horrible quality, use the new Sony and get 12 seconds of rediculoulsy choppy pixelated footage. I don't recommend it at all. From examples I have seen you might as well be shooting from a webcam and using twixtor. I could be wrong, but it just seems like marketing hype.

Bill Pryor December 2nd, 2006 03:21 PM

Avid does pretty good slomo, but FCP leaves something to be desired. I've never used Twixtor but have seen samples, and it looks like the best. I was interested in the HVX200 for its slomo capabilities, but the P2 workflow made it not workable for me. If the Sony V1 had 1/3" chips I might have considered it but not for the slomo capability because it's too limited. I think Twixtor is the ticket if you want to do acceptable slomo shots. Or better yet, buy a cheap used Bolex and shoot 16mm when you need slomo.

Chuck Spaulding December 2nd, 2006 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Huling
Thanks Simon Any suggestions for a CODEC?

I'm not Simon but I'd recommend checking out http://www.cineform.com/

John Huling December 2nd, 2006 03:39 PM

Thanks Chuck just saved it to my FAV's, I will check it out later.

Jason Strongfield December 2nd, 2006 04:48 PM

you can down convert HVX's p2 overcranking footage to tape (SD format). This can be done seamlessly for you by the camera. You see this all the time on movies and even tv commercials.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:15 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2019 The Digital Video Information Network