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-   -   How to set up a firmware update wishlist? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/82673-how-set-up-firmware-update-wishlist.html)

Chris Hurd January 11th, 2007 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Kamerman
the inability to use both the internal and an external mic at the same time.

The built-in mic is stereo and therefore requires two audio channels. There are only two audio channels in the camera to begin with. That's why you can't have the built-in mic and an external mic at the ame time. That would require three or four channels and there are only two channels available.

Holly Rognan January 11th, 2007 09:38 PM

Chris, couldn't they use just the left or right channel, or combine them into a mono signal?

I am not an audio expert but that seems like it would be fairly easy to accomplish. How does the DVX100 do it?

Bill Busby January 11th, 2007 11:43 PM

I just noticed something & pardon me if I missed any post regarding this.

Shouldn't when using a custom preset (either from a SD card or cam), "lock out" any accidental bump of the buttons. Meaning it's easy to accidentally change a preset without realizing it.

Unless I'm missing a setting somewhere, one would think this should be a standard design. Correct me if I'm wrong here or missing something. And if I'm not... I think this should be added to the firmware list.

I should go dink around with it some more, but edit deadlines prohibit much :-\

Bill

Soeren Mueller January 12th, 2007 03:19 AM

With the DVX you can switch the left or right channel independently between internal mic or external source (which you can switch between external line or external mic - for which you can switch phantom power on or off ;o) ... so you can choose if you want the left or right channel of the internal mic and on the other "empty" channel you can record from an external mic or external mixer etc. This is often soooo helpful...

So currently for the A1 it's just all external or all internal mic??! :-(
And can the lines be independently switched between line/mic/mic+phantom power at least?!

Simon Dean January 12th, 2007 05:44 AM

No and yes. You can't independently switch between line/mic but you can do phantom power per channel.

Soeren Mueller January 12th, 2007 06:43 AM

Hm ok thx! Damn - why all this little "design hickups"... could be such a perfect cam otherwise. Of course it's fine as it is, but this and the focus/zoom thing bug me a lot... :-/

Bogdan Tyburczy January 15th, 2007 11:34 PM

LCD/EVF/CCD image flip
 
This funcion is partially present on XL-H1. Enabling EVF flip affects only the LCD without any changes on camera output or recorded signal. Though it's only my speculation, it seems like the function is not built in Digic HD processor, but controlled from separate circuit. We may never see this feature in A1/G1 camcorders :(

LCD reverse in A1/G1 is triggered by position sensor and it's independent from the rest of the system. This doesn't leave much hope for customizable image flip feature either.

I guess firmware update will cast some light on that mystery that bugs users of 35mm adapters like Redrock M2. 180 degrees flip of the signal from CCD block would be the perfect solution, leaving all menus not affected while displaying and recording image correctly.

Who knows if Digic HD can do that... If it can, Canon please listen, give us one more link to Custom Keys.

Michael Mann January 16th, 2007 10:29 AM

Alright, I guess time has come to stop collecting wishes and get ready for the final poll. Is that okay with you, Chris?

Jamie Krutz January 17th, 2007 12:39 AM

-Support the letterbox option for video outputs during recording. It only works on playback currently.

-Add an option for advanced pulldown on the component video output when using HD 24f mode. This will allow much better pulldown removal when recording directly to the computer, such as one might do to avoid HDV compression for green screen work. Advanced pulldown is an option for SD, why not HD?

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Holly Rognan January 17th, 2007 01:41 AM

You dont need advanced pulldown in HDV, because only 24 frames get recorded to tape. HDV allows the compression to be more robust and flexible in this regard, so data compression is optimized.

Jamie Krutz January 17th, 2007 09:32 AM

Holly, I'm not talking about the HDV signal recorded via firewire, which is recorded as 24 frames progressive as you say.

I'm referring to the HD video that is encoded to 60i at the component (and composite) analog outputs, which has (non-advanced only) pulldown added. It would be great to have the option of using advanced pulldown at the analog component output for perfect pulldown removal, to get back to 24 frame progressive without recording HDV (such as when recording component analog direct to computer, for greenscreen work).

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Bill Busby January 17th, 2007 09:46 AM

Jamie, all "encoding" is done in camera when shooting. Firewire out is just identical digital data... all just zeros & ones. Regarding the analog out, be it component or composite, isn't encoded either. It uses D/A conversion.

Maybe that's what you meant. I was just making some clarification.

Bill

Stu Siegal January 17th, 2007 02:28 PM

Think it's time to get this poll up!

Jamie Krutz January 19th, 2007 06:30 PM

Bill, thanks for your input, but that's an entirely different subject which does not relate at all to what I'm describing.

For an overview of the issue, Google "advanced pulldown."

When you record in 24f mode, the Canon A1 doesn't need to do pulldown, either advanced 2-3-3-2 pulldown or normal 2-3 pulldown, when recording to HDV. This is because it is smart enough to only record the 24 progressive frames per second to tape.

The Canon A1 also doesn't need to do pulldown when sending the HDV signal to your computer over Firewire because, again, it's already a 24 frame per second stream.

HOWEVER: When you record video from any of the analog ports on the A1 while running the A1 as a live camera, IOW, NOT recording to HDV tape, there is a limitation. The signal coming from the analog ports is ALWAYS 60i.

The Canon will embed the 24f stream into the 60i stream by creating extra frames/fields. This is called "pulldown."

Advanced 2-3-3-2 pulldown is easy to process in a way that leaves only the original 24 progressive frames per second. Advanced pulldown removal is widely supported. For example Final Cut Pro can remove it easily and non-destructively.

Regular 2-3 pulldown is not so easy to process because periodic frames get split as fields into a single interlaced frame.

So, if you are shooting HDV to tape, no problem. However if you want to shoot pre-HDV compression for green screen useage, directly to your computer via the component outputs, and you want to use 24f, you now have a bigger problem getting your 24 progressive frames back out of that 60i stream. If you are compressing in the computer as you shoot, it's also problematic to compress that periodically combined frame represenation.

BTW, if you shoot SD, the A1 DOES give you the choice of advanced pulldown from the analog outputs. But oddly, it's not available if you shoot HD. (BTW, the same limitation exists with the digital outputs on the G1 and H1.)

So, for the A1, my request is to have the option of advanced pulldown from the component output.

This will be handy when shooting HD direct to the computer via the component output (NOT using HDV, NOT using Firewire).

An example of when you might want to avoid HDV compression and use the analog component out while shooting is when doing green screen compositing work. HDV compression stomps on the color resolution, making clean keys harder to create. Going direct out of the component ports will give you higher color resolution, entirely avoiding HDV compression when shooting (not when playing back HDV tapes, of course).

In a nutshell: It would be handy to be able to capture from the component output when shooting, using advanced pulldown for easy recovery of the 24f stream.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Chris Hurd January 20th, 2007 02:14 PM

I haven't forgotten about this thread... just majorly distracted, as usual. The poll can go up any time. I had to revise the part of the forum software that manages polls to allow for voting for a limited number of multiple choice options, but that's done now. However, I need some clarification on some of these options because I'm having difficulty understanding what they're asking for. So here's the list broken into two parts... the first half are the requests which I can understand. The second part are those requests on which I'm seeking some better description.

First batch -- I've added Holly's request to disable the color bars switch, and added two of my own, one of which is the option to display shutter information as a value of degrees instead of time (the Sony HVR-V1U has this display option). My other wish list item is the option to manually set the top limit of AGC (shooter decides the max AGC value, such as +12db for example).

Quote:

- OIS switch via Custom Key
- Ext. vs. Int. Mic switch via Custom Key
- 1/50th default shutter speed in 25F
- Soft clipping / limiter in manual audio
- Display Peaking and Zebra at same time
- EVF Magnification while recording
- Flip image (but not display info) in LCD & EVF
- Record flipped image to tape
- Additional shutter speeds between 1/25 and 1/50 (1/33 and/or 1/40)
- Remaining battery time in real minutes
- Custom Function for Long Push of "end play" button
- option to disable AF during zoom
- additional digital zoom in SD
- display CP Name (not number) on screen
- option to disable Color Bars switch
- display shutter value in degrees (not time)
- manually set maximum AGC value
Second batch -- please aid my confusion on some of these if you will:

Quote:

- Remember the previous selected shutter speed
In the recent history of Canon 3CCD camcorders, this has always been available in standby mode, but not after a complete power down. Do other camcorders offer this?

Quote:

- Exp. Lock is Push AE in Manual mode
Already available... in Tv mode, press Exp. Lock once to shoot in full manual; press Exp. Lock again for AE. In other words, all you have to do in order to shoot in full manual with Push AE from the Exp. Lock button, is to use the Tv program mode instead of the M program mode... there is no difference between the two modes (Manual vs. Tv with Exp. Lock), except the availability of Push AE.

Quote:

- Exposure override via iris ring in Tv mode
Already available via the Exp. Lock button. When shooting in Tv mode, press the Exp. Lock button once and the iris ring becomes fully active. Or is the intention to have the iris ring allow for only a couple of stops of adjustment above or below AE (as found on the AE dial on the XL series)?

Quote:

- CP select via shutter scroll wheel
How would you switch for this function when shooting? Because you'll need it for shutter speed control in Tv or M modes plus A or Av modes with Exp. Lock. Would you switch for it by pressing the CP on/off button? Would it make more sense to use the menu scroller for this purpose? Or perhaps the zoom speed select dial?

Quote:

- Exp. Lock disables AGC
How would you switch for this function?

Quote:

- Improvements of NR1, NR2
Improve in what ways, specifically?

Quote:

- Intermediate steps in gain
Which intermediate steps specifically... +9db and +15db?

Quote:

- Improvement of the "night" mode
Improve in what way specifically?

Quote:

- Conversion 50i to 25f (playback)
I don't get it... what other camcorder does this, and if you're going to convert 50i to 25f, why not just shoot 25f in the first place?

Quote:

- White Balance settings below 2800 K
Down to what value specifically? What's the lowest any other camera goes to?

Quote:

- Photo Buttons usable as Custom Preset buttons
Do you want the photo buttons to be mapped as Custom Preset on/off buttons, or as additional Custom Key buttons? Or, for the greatest flexibility, would you want these buttons mappable as either way, as CP on/off or as additional Custom Keys, your choice?

Quote:

- option to allocate AWB switch as OIS Switch or XLR mic / onboard mic switch
Why not use Custom Keys for these purpose, as already suggested?

Quote:

- ability to fine tune the LCD and CRT viewfinder to match colors in menu settings
Both displays are tunable within the Displays Setup menu. Or is this request asking for a greater range and/or finer degree of adjustment?

Thanks in advance for any input,

Michael Mann January 20th, 2007 02:27 PM

Chris, thanks for your effort so far and for sorting out what has to be more precise. This is essential if we want to be heard by Canon. Here are my suggestions:

(1) Remember the previous selected shutter speed
I don't know if any other camcorders offer this but it sure would be a useful feature and therefore should be on our list. Maybe we modify the wish as follows:

- Option to remember the previous selected shutter speed even after a complete power down


(2) Option to disable AF during zoom
I suggest to add the following so that the reason for this wish becomes clearer:

- Option to disable AF during zoom to prevent possible focus pulsing problems when zooming in AF

Alex Leith January 20th, 2007 03:31 PM

I've just discovered something vaguely interesting about the shutter speed (certainly in 25F on a A1E)

In M, the camera DOES remember the shutter speed when I go to standby or powerdown or remove the battery.

In Tv the shutter speed defaults to 25... but only if I'm switching to it from full auto mode. If I switch to it from the other direction it remembers the previous setting...

I think that one might be a bug!

Michael Mann January 20th, 2007 03:35 PM

That's interesting, Alex, I have to try this out. Thanks.

Bill Busby January 20th, 2007 03:57 PM

Maybe it's just me... but I don't understand the disabling of the color bar switch. Most pro cams I've used have basically 3 switches: Gain, Output (cam & bars) & White Balance. If it's a matter of accidentally switching to colorbars while shooting, then that's just user error & it's the user who should become accustomed to where these 3 switches are located.

Holly mentioned threads ago she would like this so she "can permanently remove the tape" which never made sense to me & I didn't get a reply when asked about it.

Not that it matters... just my 2 cents :)

Bill

Piotr Wozniacki January 20th, 2007 04:00 PM

peaking colour/intensity
 
Compared to the Sony V1, the peaking is definitely less functional. Let me propose one more item to the wishlist: customizable colour and intensity level of peaking (ironically, when you change to black&white for easier focusing, the peaking gets even less distinctive - should be red or yellow!) So, the list now would be:

- customizable color and intensity of peaking
- OIS mappable to custom key
- XLR/ camera mics mappable to custom key
- 1/50th default shutter speed in 25F
- Remember the previous selected shutter speed
- Exposure lock acts as 'Push auto exposure' in Manual mode
- Soft clipping / limiter in manual audio mode
- Peaking and zebra together
- Magnification that works during recording
- Exposure override via iris ring in TV mode
- Custom presets select via shutter scroll wheel
- Image flip on LCD
- Image flip on CCD
- Exposure lock disables AGC adjustments
- Improvements of NR1, NR2
- Additional stop(s) between 1/25 and 1/50 (1/33 and/or 1/40)
- Intermediate steps in gain
- Remaining battery time in real minutes
- Improvement of the "night" mode
- Conversion 50i to 25f (playback)
- setting for "end play" button to allow for a long push
- white balance settings below 2800 K
- photo buttons to be used as a possible custom preset button
- option to disable AF during zooms (to prevent focus pulsing when filming in AF)
- ability for custom preset to be displayed on screen by name (as opposed to just number)
- option to allocate AWB switch as OIS Switch or XLR mic / onboard mic switch
- ability to fine tune the LCD and CRT viewfinder to match colors in menu settings
- additional digital zoom in SD

Amr Toukhy January 20th, 2007 04:03 PM

Maybe adding more time options for the Focus / Zoom preset key!! slower and faster, with ease in and out options and a delay after the click...

Alex Leith January 20th, 2007 04:09 PM

Heh! Heh! Now I want all of these functions! So many great suggestions. How am I ever going to decide when it comes to the poll!

Amr Toukhy January 20th, 2007 04:21 PM

time lapse feature !!!

Stu Siegal January 20th, 2007 04:49 PM

Chris, I'm wondering if all these choices are overkill.

Looking at the list, it's almost two different polls - one a firmware upgrade request, and the second a wishlist for the next camera revision. Maybe two polls are an option that would still allow everyone to express their wishes without undercutting our request for a few basic features in a near future firmware upgrade.

Just throwing this out there to try and be realistic, so we don't dilute our message.

Alex Leith January 20th, 2007 04:56 PM

I think the idea is that through the polls we can express democratically what the top requests are for a firmware update for the camera.

Certainly there are a couple of things that Canon should probably fix (bugs) regardless of whether they listen to us or not. But there is no reason why *most* of the rest of the items on the list could not be implemented by firmware.

The top (I can't remember how many) items may well get styled into a firmware update request to Canon. The rest may well get put on a wishlist for future revisions.

Again, Canon may pay us no attention whatsoever, but if we don't ask we certainly don't get.

Richard Hunter January 20th, 2007 07:16 PM

"Quote:
- Exp. Lock disables AGC

How would you switch for this function?"

I can't think of a reason why anyone would want to lock exposure and still have AGC functioning, but if necessary, we could have a menu optiion to select whether Exposure Lock disables AGC or not.

Richard

Chris Hurd January 20th, 2007 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Busby
I don't understand the disabling of the color bar switch.
...Holly mentioned several posts ago she would like this so she "can permanently remove the tape" which never made sense to me...

She meant, so she could permanently remove the little piece of gaff tape she had placed over that switch to lock it off.

Bill Busby January 21st, 2007 04:15 AM

ohhhhhh! Now it's clear. I was like... huh? Thanks Chris

Piotr Wozniacki January 21st, 2007 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki
Compared to the Sony V1, the peaking is definitely less functional. Let me propose one more item to the wishlist: customizable colour and intensity level of peaking (ironically, when you change to black&white for easier focusing, the peaking gets even less distinctive - should be red or yellow!)

I've been thinking: if I was the only one to complain about the peaking not being distinctive enough, perhaps it's just me? I mean, do all of you think it's OK? Personally, it's just not bright enough, and -given it can only be white - invalidates the very purpose of switching to BW for easier focusing. Please let me know if you share my opinion, because otherwise something must be wrong with my unit.

Rik van der Kroon January 21st, 2007 08:37 AM

What I find a large lack is that the camera makers, Canon, but also Sony in this case, are not really helping the users focus.

Canon made it even worse by making the screen smaller. Both of the camera makers use the "expanded focus" button which enables you to quick-zoom to see a part of the picture up in detail so you can see if its focussed right.

But sadly enough this feature does not function while filming, and I hate that!
The only usefull focussing function the cameras at this moment is the "push to focus" which helps correcting manual focus but Canon is forcing me to look trough the viewfinder very closely to see if I got the focus right, and sadly enough, too many times I am off a little.

So, my firmware upgrade request is: "Anything that helps me focussing, in low or bright light"

And one thing to do this is enabling the "expanded focus" while filming. (it can't be hard to zoom in on a bit of the picture without having to write that to tape but show it on the LCD)

And about the Intermedia steps in gain, I would like to see that in the lower regions, so 4db for example. Well, it would actually be great so see every step selectable...from -3 up to 36db. The more step options, the better!

Bogdan Tyburczy January 22nd, 2007 02:20 PM

I think focusing assist is OK for the camera of this size and price. I had no big problems so far in different situations, but I agree: if possible, Canon should improve peaking by making it brighter and easier to interpret.

On the other hand, maybe we should be a little bit more forgiving and remember professional HD viewfinder can cost as much as the whole XH-A1 cam.

Piotr Wozniacki January 22nd, 2007 03:03 PM

You're right Bogdan, but have you seen the peaking with the Z1 or V1? It's much better and customizable, even though the LCD is bigger and focusing is easier than with the Canon anyway; ironically the A1 offers so many custom settings in other areas (many more than V1), but NOT for peaking color/intensity which would be very appropriate considering its smaller LCD and less DOF than the V1's...

Well, you can't have everything - but this thread is all about wishes, so what the heck?!

Bogdan Tyburczy January 22nd, 2007 03:49 PM

Yes, I know what you're talking about. There is nothing that couldn't be better. Let's demand. Maybe they will deliver :)

Piotr Wozniacki January 26th, 2007 07:12 AM

My first addition to the wishlist has been customizable peaking, now that I have played with the cam for a couple of days, I'd like two more things:

- focus ring more precize=less sensitive
- ND display (warning and ND1/ND2 differentiation)

Chris Hurd January 26th, 2007 07:51 AM

Still looking for input on this post I made here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....3&postcount=95

Can't move forward without it. Thanks in advance,

Stu Siegal January 26th, 2007 08:58 AM

OK, I'll weigh in as best I can.

1. Shutter speed - I think the dvx remembered everything, just sold mine so I can't check.

2. Exp lock - OK, nevermind.

3. TV mode - don't use it, no suggestions.

4. CP/shtter scroll - seems impractical. If cp names were displayed on the LCD, I'd be happy.

5. exp lock/agc - no interest in this one.

6. NR1 & 2 - don't use them, but it seems too hard to define for this poll.

7. Gain - never shoot higher than +6, I'm happy with gain.

8. Night mode - don't use it, but it seems too hard to define for this poll.

9. 50f - not a pal user, can't help.

10. Lower WB- Seems excessive to me, cam already has a great wb feature.

11. Photo buttons as custom keys - agree with your greatest flexibility suggestion.

12. AWB as OIS - I agree, this seems redundant, other suggestion to make mappable to custom keys better.

13. Fine tune LCD - The LCD is what it is, not a biggier for me.

I think because it's such a long thread, people who made some of these suggestions may have dropped in and aren't going to drop back, so you might have to make some judgement calls. Hope some of this helps, can't wait to get this poll up.

Michael Mann January 26th, 2007 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Siegal
... can't wait to get this poll up.

Me too.

Chris, maybe you set a deadline for precising the "second batch"-wishes. If we don't get any input by the end of the deadline, we could only use "first batch"-wishes for the poll.

Alex Leith January 26th, 2007 11:29 AM

1. Previous Shutter Speed - The A1 *does* remember the previous shutter speed EXCEPT when you switch to Tv from Auto it defaults to 1/25th. If you switch to Tv from Av the previous shutter setting is restored. I think that might be a bug!

2. Exposure Lock - Most people who want semi-auto exposure controls will probably be working in Tv or Av. I see no point to this.

3. Exposure Override in Tv - I'd like the ability to shift the exposure up or down by a couple of stops using the iris ring.

4. CP Select By Shutter Wheel - I'd rather have them selected by the menu scroller thingy... Press the CP button, then hit up or down to go through them.

5. Exposure Lock Disables AGC - Can't really see the point of this... what's wrong with the AGC switch?

6. NR1 & 2 - I agree that this is too hard to define

7. Intermediate Gain - +9dB would be nice, but not essential

8. Night Mode Improvement - not specific enough for firmware update

9. 50i to 25f - why? I agree with you Chris - shoot 25F

10. WB Below 2800K - I agree this seems excessive.

11. Photo Buttons - Um... I can't help think this would get confusing.

12. AWB as OIS - Seems confusing.

13. Fine tune LCD - Already have a good range of controls.

Raymond Toussaint January 26th, 2007 01:06 PM

Quote:

- Exp. Lock is Push AE in Manual mode
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
Already available... in Tv mode, press Exp. Lock once to shoot in full manual; press Exp. Lock again for AE. In other words, all you have to do in order to shoot in full manual with Push AE from the Exp. Lock button, is to use the Tv program mode instead of the M program mode... there is no difference between the two modes (Manual vs. Tv with Exp. Lock), except the availability of Push AE.

Not really...
Quote:

EXP lock is Push AE in manual mode
If it was available in manual mode, it will function similar as the Push AF button. (That is a temporarily override as long as you push the button.) Now, in manual mode the EXP Lock button is doing nothing.

You can get similar action in TV mode by [push out Exposure Lock] wait for AE level...and [push on Exposure Lock] to go back to manual. You need to push 'twice' because it locks to the function. That is normal behavior, it is even written on it: EXP. LOCK !!
What I want is: EXP lock functions as Push AE in manual mode.

Sure, you can workaround with the TV mode, but it's slow and definitely not the same.

Chris Hurd January 26th, 2007 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond Toussaint
Not really...

Yes... really.

It works exactly as I have described. Tv mode plus Exp. Lock equals Manual mode. There is no difference, except that shooting this way in Tv mode is better than shooting in Manual mode because it offers exactly what you want: the ability to switch between automatic exposure control and manual exposure control at the push of a button.

Honestly I can't sympathize with your complaint about having to push the Exp. Lock button a second time; after all it really doesn't take much effort to lift a finger.


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